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There Is Nothing Either Good Or Bad, But Thinking Makes It So.

Posted by Max Mosley , 14 February 2008 · 1,078 views

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

I have a new favourite Shakespeare quote.I took some analysis from the internet to save me typing it up.

HAMLET
    What's the news?

ROSENCRANTZ
    None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.

HAMLET
    Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
    Let me question more in particular: what have you,
    my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
    that she sends you to prison hither?

GUILDENSTERN
    Prison, my lord!

HAMLET
    Denmark's a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ
    Then is the world one.

HAMLET
    A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
    wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.

ROSENCRANTZ
    We think not so, my lord.

HAMLET
    Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
    either good or bad, but thinking makes it so
: to me
    it is a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ
    Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
    narrow for your mind.

HAMLET
   O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
    myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
    have bad dreams.


GUILDENSTERN
    Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
    substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.

HAMLET
    A dream itself is but a shadow.

ROSENCRANTZ
    Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a
    quality that it is but a shadow's shadow.

HAMLET
    Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and
    outstretched heroes the beggars' shadows. Shall we
    to the court? for, by my fay, I cannot reason.

According to enotes, 'what brings Rosencrantz and Guildenstern�two of Hamlet's acquaintances from the university�to Denmark isn't Lady Fortune but, as Hamlet suspects, King Claudius. Claudius is worried about Hamlet's seeming distraction, thinking it might be a threat to the state and to the king himself. Claudius coerces Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, who aren't too bright, into service as spies, hoping they can lull the prince into revealing the true cause of his "antic disposition" [see p. 2].

When Hamlet calls Denmark a prison, therefore, the metaphor is apt. He is mentally and physically confined by the gaze of the king and his agents, and he feels trapped in the court's general degradation�"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark," as Marcellus had said [see p. 135].

Hamlet is a prisoner of his own thinking, and of his knowledge that his stepfather is a fratricide and his mother incestuous. When he states that "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so," he's not indulging in ethical relativism as much as wishing for blissful ignorance. He's also implicitly damning the na�vet� of the king's new yes-men.'

I haven't studied Hamlet yet, but personally I think this quote is better if instead you take all the possible meanings on board.  It's a great example of the power of ambiguity imho.  All the meanings add up to make you "think" more about the issue.  It can mean so many things, for example:

  • Morality is relative?
  • Morality is not relative, if only you think?
  • Ignorance is bliss?
  • If you're not suicidal, like Hamlet, perhaps you're not thinking enough?
  • The king's men are stupid

At first I thought the phrase meant "there's nothing good or bad, we just think there is".  But then, after "thinking" some more, I thought perhaps it means you ought to realise there's good and bad by thinking more about things! :lol:




Excellent post, Graham! I have always maintained that we humans are base animals and will do as instinct and emotion directs us, without regard to anything but our personal pleasure, until we apply reason and thought. Interestingly, when we apply too much thought we come full circle by justifying the indulgence of our base instincts.
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monza gorilla
Feb 15 2008 11:04 AM
I agree. Surprised it took Graham so long to see it, though.......... :D
Incidentally, if you're interested, check out the film Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. The two idiots stumble around unaware of their scripted lives and unable to deviate from them. Worth watching if you like existential tragi comedy.
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:lol: Actually I'm still strongly tempted by moral relativism. :P  I just like the ambiguity of Shakespeare's phrase!  It seems to show the problems of thinking too much.  I should probably have made all that clearer above - my own post was ambiguous, and not in a good way!  

In practice though, we all have pretty similar codes of ethics I think, which we get by thinking, as Mike, and perhaps Shakespeare, say.  And I will definitely look up that film Russ, but I haven't even seen Hamlet yet.

I also wonder these days about the complementary roles of philosophy and literature in talking about morality.  I always used to be pretty skeptical of literature's role, but the more I think about it the more I feel that the meaning of life is probably something you feel rather than think...
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Maybe the ambiguity of the phrase has a double meaning and reflects the ambiguity of what is good and bad? Therefore by it's own ambiguity it makes the phrase crystal clear.

Just a thought.
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Ah yes!  That's a good idea.  Thanks.
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Expanding on what I said earlier, it's really circular; a sort of moral merry-go-round, if you will. The most extreme thought will lead you back to instinct without reason, then it's the merry-go-round all over again. Quite dizzying. Really, the purest morality is justifying all actions that impact nothing. Morals and ethics are really just rules we set as a society in order to live together. Were we alone on an island, these issues of morality disappear.

All of that being said, morality is a choice of course. You can dizzy yourself on the merry-go-round or pick your bit of moral ground and stand on it, watching the merry-go-round but not riding it.

Hm...I'm not even sure I'm on topic anymore ;)
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:lol:  I'm not even sure what the topic was precisely.  I don't think I really had one in mind tbh!  Anyway, I think I agree with you.  Morality is a choice, but we will all have very similar ideas about the kind of world we want to make for ourselves while we're here.
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