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Jem of the Shire

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F1 TO ASK FOR FANS' OPINION

Formula 1 drivers will take the unusual step of surveying fans as Bernie Ecclestone and other key figures explore ways of spicing up the sport.

With Mercedes once again dominating this season as Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg fight for supremacy, F1 is under fire for lacking excitement.

Ecclestone and co are already contemplating rule changes for 2017.

But drivers have decided to take matters into their own hands by asking fans what they would do.

They intend to use social media to canvass views on a wide range of issues - technical, commercial, audience behaviours, etc - even asking fans whether F1 should be viewed as sport or entertainment.

The Grand Prix Drivers' Association, chaired by former F1 driver Alexander Wurz, discussed the idea at the Spanish Grand Prix and plan to launch the survey over the Monaco race weekend, from 20 to 24 May.

Whether it has any impact is another matter.

Unlike most businesses, F1 rarely asks consumers for feedback.

Instead, ideas for change tend to be generated internally, on the basis of what senior figures believe is the best approach.

A number of F1's most influential figures, including commercial supremo Ecclestone, are concerned about falling television audiences.

Last year, numbers dropped in Germany and Italy, for example, but stayed stable and even increased in other countries, such as the United Kingdom and the United States.

Ecclestone and members of F1's rule-making strategy group of leading teams will meet the motorsport's world governing body, the FIA, on Thursday to discuss ideas for 2017 onwards.

They will consider whether to make cars faster and more dramatic-looking as well as make tyres grippier and wider at the rear.

Some insiders feel the current Pirelli tyres, which are designed to degrade quickly to promote more pit stops, are causing some of F1's problems, because drivers have to drive within themselves in races to ensure the tyres do not wear out excessively.

Pirelli's contract runs out at the end of 2016 and the FIA will conduct a full tender process to find the next tyre supplier, with French company Michelin, held in high regard by the F1 teams, considering a bid.

However, senior figures have told BBC Sport that Ecclestone is determined to stick with Pirelli because it pays so much money to buy trackside advertising. The figure is said to be $40m (£27m) a year.

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Dont you guys remember the last one? The FiA did it. Circa 2005. Didnt help a bit or we wouldnt be in this mess.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/45496

It did help, we had cracking seasons in 06,07,08 it wasn't until they changed everything for 2009 that we hit this downward spiral. It gradually got worse until we hit 2013 and Redbull dominated that much the FIA opted for another change, this time absolutly screwing it up.

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Indeed. This new V6 era was never wanted by the fans, and has had an overwhelmingly negative response ever since. What the hell did the FIA expect? Fans were never in favour of ditching the V8's.

I don't think most of us were even that bothered about the bits/winglets etc that used to stick out of sidepods, that were banned for '09. Even DRS still has a 50/50 opinion.

It's just rule changing again and again, and every time it happens we get 2 seasons down the line and F1 apparently needs a shake-up to spice up 'the show', so what's the point?? Just like webric has said 1000 times, let's have 90's F1 back!

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That's it mate, there was nothing wrong with the sport prior to the massive shakeup in 1998, so why even change it to begin with? Yeah cars where getting quicker but that's just the nature of the sport. Why not implement these radical safety changes on the circuits back then? Iam sure people wouldn't have minded the massive run offs if we kept the same cars. All you have to do is watch any race prior to 98 and you can see kers or ers and even drs wasn't even needed as the mechanical grip made the overtaking that we have now with mechanical aids.

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DRS may spice up the show for casual viewers but in reality it takes away most of the overtaking skill. In the past you needed the skill and bravery, nowadays the position is yours as long as you get a good enough run out of the corner.

Remember the epic Imola scrap between Schuey & Alonso - it wouldn't have happened if DRS existed back then.

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DRS may spice up the show for casual viewers but in reality it takes away most of the overtaking skill. In the past you needed the skill and bravery, nowadays the position is yours as long as you get a good enough run out of the corner.

Remember the epic Imola scrap between Schuey & Alonso - it wouldn't have happened if DRS existed back then.

Yep that's right and dc and schumis battle there. All the classic battles are previous to the drs era as drs battles are over right away. Couldn't even call it a fight tbh. Imagine if they had it back when senna and Mansell had that epic fight at Monaco in 92. It would have given Mansell the win and would have taken away a win senna richly deserved. It would have changed history that's what makes me think its changing history now and not providing us with adequate results.

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It's useless though cos the FIA won't listen to us. Can only hope this survey results in a big 'NO' to DRS.

But would FIA even take notice of Wurz and the GPDA?

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Tbh no, I think it's another big scam just to try win some fans back and raise tv views.

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Yeah I agree.

DRS is detrimental to drivers like Kimi who go balls to the wall and can actually drive a car that needs to be driven. They aren't physicists or accountants.

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You mean he needs drs to pass a car lol, he couldn't even lap a Mclaren without asking for help lmao.

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You mean he needs drs to pass a car lol, he couldn't even lap a Mclaren without asking for help lmao.

Its like you took what I wrote and completely misunderstood it on purpose.

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Its like you took what I wrote and completely misunderstood it on purpose.

C'mon man just having a poke atcha.

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What do ya know, who did I know that would happen.

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Not a surprise; too many self-interests and no-one really has a clue how to properly fix it....

Whats there to fix? Isn't wasnt broken in 1997. Just go back to those regs. It's that simple.

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Whats there to fix? Isn't wasnt broken in 1997. Just go back to those regs. It's that simple.

I dunno man, that was 20 years ago, imagine the ways they could work around those rules now

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I dunno man, that was 20 years ago, imagine the ways they could work around those rules now

Yeah but those chassis and the way the sport was working back then, that was the last of the "pure" f1 seasons we have seen. The sport had never been the same since its radical shakeup in 1998. Yeah we have had good seasons since then but I can't help to think just how much better and authentic it would be if the cars were based completly of mechanical grip like they were in the mid ninties.

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Honestly, the last people I trust to run F1 are the fans, no matter how bad FIA and Ecclestone have been.

Why? Look at us. We are very annoying!

We complained and complained about the lack of overtaking on the track and all of it being in the pits, so they banned refueling to put it in the drivers' hands. But then we complained about how there was no overtaking at all!

So, then Pirelli makes a tire that wears, and we get a lot of overtaking and so many different winners. What do we do? Complain that it is a lottery and that this is artificial! We say how unfair it is that the fastest cars can no longer win because of tire wear and that the drivers have to be more conservative to manage tires. We call it illegitimate that tire strategy dictates the race and call the overtakes fake because they come from different tire choices or freshness.

What do they do? Well, they make the tires hard. And then we complain now that the fastest car is winning nearly every single race, and that there's no overtaking, and that it's not competitive, and that the drivers still aren't racing hard enough to our liking because of the fuel situation.

Now, they are going to bring back refueling. We all rejoice, until it happens in 2017, and we start complaining again. Why? Well, just because, with refueling, someone can do a 6-stopper and run qualifying laps all race does not mean they actually will. We'll complain that drivers are now being conservative to save fuel and meet fuel targets, just like they did with the tires we lamented. And unlike the tires, it won't lead to on-track passing, just in-pit passing, so we will complain there is no overtaking. We will complain if fuel strategy lets us have a "fluke" winner and we will complain if fuel strategy just keeps up the dominance of one or two teams.

Who would ever trust us for input? I have been online, connecting with racing fans, since 2000. And it never, not once, for any type of racing has the consensus been, "wow, the racing is good." It has always been about, "fix this, fix that, do this, do that" and usually the suggestion is to go back to the past. But if you do go back to the past and read the forum posts in archive, you will find that when the past was present, no one liked it and wanted it changed! We demand they change things, then demand they change them back! Over and over and over again, without fail!

We are terrible. :)

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A number of F1's most influential figures, including commercial supremo Ecclestone, are concerned about falling television audiences.

Last year, numbers dropped in Germany and Italy, for example, but stayed stable and even increased in other countries, such as the United Kingdom and the United States.

This is funny, too.

Germany: German driver Vettel went from champion to also-ran in 2014. The numbers dropped because Vettel did poorly. It has nothing to do with the racing.

Italy: Italian team Ferrari went from contender (or at least race winner) to hopeless in 2014. The numbers dropped because Ferrari did poorly. It has nothing to do with the racing.

United Kingdom: British driver Hamilton dominated after years of being tertiary to Vettel/Alonso. The numbers rose because Hamilton did so well. It has nothing to do with the racing.

United States: F1 switched from Speed to NBC Sports in 2013 and the numbers got cut in half. Then, they doubled in 2014, back to Speed levels. NBC Sports moved into more homes while Speed became an all-sports channel and NBC Sports became the motorsports home in America. The numbers rose because it was year two of a transition to a new network. It has nothing to do with the racing.

If Bernie and the boys think that the fix to TV numbers is to keep reinventing the sport, they have been fooled. These numbers are -- within reason -- out of their control. They fluctuate with the success of national drivers, teams, races. They fluctuate with new TV contracts and the rise and fall of TV networks as well as TV itself and the alternatives to having a TV subscription. It is not about engines or tires or fuels or DRS or any of that, sorry. For us, the big-time fans, it is, but for the general, typical, casual viewer, it is really just, "is my guy winning" or "do I even get this TV channel?"

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Again, two excellent posts but I stand with my argument I've said for months and months, return back to the regs in the mid ninties and car regs to suit and that's all we need IMO. No complained about anything back then it was the FIA who on there own made the change for the better of themselves, no one else.

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Well it is not Rocket Science to know how Bernie feels about this "sport/entertainment/farse" It is just a money making exercise for him and all the other greedy buggers that ripping every cent they an get their hands on and bugger the TEAMS or the race fans.

Until F1 is run by someone with the INTEREST of the sport at heart, and not how much money they can make, we will just have these "Regurgitated " ideas that have ALL been tried before but dropped because of any reasons, some for safety (re-fuelling) some for cost cutting (re-fuelling/engine design/etc).

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