Alonso Worshipers, Whats Happened

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Below are the differences in qualifying, 2014 Alonso & 2015 Vettel, Mercedes vs Ferrari.

AUSTRALIA

2014 deficit – 1.588s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 1.430s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P4)

MALAYSIA

2014 deficit – 0.744s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P4)

2015 deficit – 0.074s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P2)

CHINA

2014 deficit – 1.777s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 0.905s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P3)

BAHRAIN

2014 deficit – 1.183s (Rosberg P1, Raikkonen P6)

2015 deficit – 0.411s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P2)

SPAIN

2014 deficit – 1.908s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P7)

2015 deficit – 0.777s (Rosberg P1, Vettel P3)

MONACO

2014 deficit – 0.697s (Rosberg P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 0.751s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P3)

Now, there has been a performance deficit reduction, but there is no way to know where it's come from. I mean, I guess the Alonso worshipers would say its come from the car right? There's no way Fernando "God of F1" Alonso would be out-driven by Vettel is there? Simply not possible! Remember, that Alonso actually drives the car beyond its limits, which means that they have obviously designed a better car. In fact, taking that to its logical conclusion, if Alonso was still with Ferrari, he would be leading the world championship!!

The problem, however, is that Fernando, and his manager, d1ckhead, are both saying it would be no good for Alonso to be in there coming second all the time. So in reality are they acknowledging he's no quicker than Vettel?

[Emmcee 0]

Good post and some intresting facts but there is one your missing and IMO will answer your question on weather alonso is faster than vettel, well at this stage last season kimi was already 44 points behind alonso and alonso hadn't win a race where as kimi is now 38 points behind Vettel who has had a win so IMO at this stage and based on car performance I think alonso just shades Vettel and if alonso won a race well that would change everything. Then you have to take into account how close kimi and Massa were and alonso smashed both of them. But that's info you don't want to know, hey spiral? And yes I honestly think fernando would be leading the championship, if not he would have atleast split the mercs at this stage but that's all speculation and hindsight. Also concidering Monaco is a circuit more based on driver performance than car performance, it's nice to see alonso have the edge there when more skill is needed than any other circuit.

[Caesar 0]

Below are the differences in qualifying, 2014 Alonso & 2015 Vettel, Mercedes vs Ferrari.

AUSTRALIA

2014 deficit – 1.588s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 1.430s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P4)

MALAYSIA

2014 deficit – 0.744s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P4)

2015 deficit – 0.074s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P2)

CHINA

2014 deficit – 1.777s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 0.905s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P3)

BAHRAIN

2014 deficit – 1.183s (Rosberg P1, Raikkonen P6)

2015 deficit – 0.411s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P2)

SPAIN

2014 deficit – 1.908s (Hamilton P1, Alonso P7)

2015 deficit – 0.777s (Rosberg P1, Vettel P3)

MONACO

2014 deficit – 0.697s (Rosberg P1, Alonso P5)

2015 deficit – 0.751s (Hamilton P1, Vettel P3)

Now, there has been a performance deficit reduction, but there is no way to know where it's come from. I mean, I guess the Alonso worshipers would say its come from the car right? There's no way Fernando "God of F1" Alonso would be out-driven by Vettel is there? Simply not possible! Remember, that Alonso actually drives the car beyond its limits, which means that they have obviously designed a better car. In fact, taking that to its logical conclusion, if Alonso was still with Ferrari, he would be leading the world championship!!

The problem, however, is that Fernando, and his manager, d1ckhead, are both saying it would be no good for Alonso to be in there coming second all the time. So in reality are they acknowledging he's no quicker than Vettel?

Only relevant is one variable that is same in both seasons, Kimi!

You should compare their results in relation to Kimi!

[KoolMonkey 0]

If a pass can be given to the Emperor with no Clothes due to McLaren not having a good car, then Kimi's results last year can also be ignored. Last years Ferrari was a product of years of Alonso's wishes and desires. It positively sucked for Kimi. He said it, Allison said it and others too.

Alonso driving better than his car is a myth in my view. But some will ignore it. Fact is he's done well in a good cars, and not so well in bad cars. That makes him basically just like every other driver. You think Hamilton is lapping 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else based on skill? Hardly. The car is immense, and Hamilton is making the most of it. He's doing no better than his car allows. Alonso is doing no better than his car allows. I havn't seen ANYONE drive the pants off their cars since the Senna and Prost days. Most are either near or at their maximum and thus obviously varies due to how good their car handle, degrade their tyres and how much horse power they have.

[Emmcee 0]

I disagree because he has beaten every teammate significantly (with the exception of lewis)while kimi hasn't reguardless of the car, this year is excused for alonso based on the fact they have a car that struggles to even score points while kimi never has had a car like that before yet still struggles to match a teammate these days let alone beat them and not beat them for one race but over an entire season. Heck even kimis sauber he debued in was better than this years Mclaren. I just can't wait till Mclaren get back ontop and if button is still there excuses can't be made as people don't rate button either so who is responsible for the development once they get there? Casper? Because we all know they will get there eventually weather people like to admit it or not. The other thing to I never get how last years Ferrari supposidely sucked so bad for kimi when this guy can drive rally cars and jump straight into a lotus and be quick right away, is alonso's driving style that unique that no one can drive a car like him or the way he has it setup? Because from what I can remember, he beat kimi by over a hundred points, that's equivelant to more than 4 race wins, he didnt get beaten, he got hammered and if he has the ability to drive any car and make it quick based of his rallying expereince driving Mclaren and lotus cars quickly, what does that say about alonso's talent? I'd rate kimi behind Bottas even as he had emense trouble dealing with Massa who in turn struggles to beat Bottas at the best of times and got hammered by alonso also. These are the clues right before people's eyes and yet people fail to see that.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

It's common knowledge that Ferrari have improved their car performance this year so I don't see the relevance in comparing Alonso 2014 to Vettel 2015.

[spiral.out 0]

I disagree because he has beaten every teammate significantly (with the exception of lewis)while kimi hasn't reguardless of the car, this year is excused for alonso based on the fact they have a car that struggles to even score points while kimi never has had a car like that before yet still struggles to match a teammate these days let alone beat them and not beat them for one race but over an entire season. Heck even kimis sauber he debued in was better than this years Mclaren. I just can't wait till Mclaren get back ontop and if button is still there excuses can't be made as people don't rate button either so who is responsible for the development once they get there? Casper? Because we all know they will get there eventually weather people like to admit it or not. The other thing to I never get how last years Ferrari supposidely sucked so bad for kimi when this guy can drive rally cars and jump straight into a lotus and be quick right away, is alonso's driving style that unique that no one can drive a car like him or the way he has it setup? Because from what I can remember, he beat kimi by over a hundred points, that's equivelant to more than 4 race wins, he didnt get beaten, he got hammered and if he has the ability to drive any car and make it quick based of his rallying expereince driving Mclaren and lotus cars quickly, what does that say about alonso's talent? I'd rate kimi behind Bottas even as he had emense trouble dealing with Massa who in turn struggles to beat Bottas at the best of times and got hammered by alonso also. These are the clues right before people's eyes and yet people fail to see that.

Dude, Kimi is 36 years old.... And he smashed DC and Grosjean. Stop harping on about Alonso vs Kimi. Everyone knows it was a Sh#te car and Alonso cant develop cars.

[Caesar 0]

It's common knowledge that Ferrari have improved their car performance this year so I don't see the relevance in comparing Alonso 2014 to Vettel 2015.

Be careful when you use common sense while trying to prove something!

[Emmcee 0]

Dude, Kimi is 36 years old.... And he smashed DC and Grosjean. Stop harping on about Alonso vs Kimi. Everyone knows it was a Sh#te car and Alonso cant develop cars.

Well dc was over the hill then wasnt he? Alonso can't develop cars is your only excuse which is bogus when you take into account Fisichella couldn't develop the Benetton into a winning car but won races with Renault while alonso was there, not to mention he made the Renault a car Trulli won in so how does that work out?

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Well dc was over the hill then wasnt he? Alonso can't develop cars is your only excuse which is bogus when you take into account Fisichella couldn't develop the Benetton into a winning car but won races with Renault while alonso was there, not to mention he made the Renault a car Trulli won in so how does that work out?

No he cant develop a car. 5 years at Ferrari, no results. Kimi joins car is faster the very next year as I predicted. Told you all of this already.

[KoolMonkey 0]

WebRic, you're revisionist history is rather narrow. Let's look at Kimi's "significant beatings" shall we in details.

2001 - Kimi's first year in F1

Team: Sauber

Team Mate: Nick Heidfeld

Retirements: 7x KR vs 6x NH

Points: 12 NH vs 9 KR

Conclusion: Close to even for both Kimi and Nick.

2002 - Kimi's first year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 10x KR vs 4x NH

Points: 41 DC vs 24 KR

Conclusion: Beaten by DC. But suffered more than double the race retirements but scored more than 50% of DC's points. This was not an over the hill DC, this was the same DC that finished second to the one and only Schumi in 2001.

2003 - Kimi's second year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 3x KR vs 5x NH

Points: 91 KR vs 51 DC

Conclusion: A fascinating year. One in which Kimi missed out on the WDC by two points in a one year old car due to the woeful MP4-18. The feat of which has not been repeated since. In essense a very good year for Kimi.

2004 - Kimi's third year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 8x KR vs 4x NH

Points: 45 KR vs 24 DC

Conclusion: Double the race retirements as DC, yet Kimi scored almost twice as many points. Not a great year for McLaren, but Kimi certainly did not disgrace himself with these results.

2005 - Kimi's fourth year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate(s): Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de la Rosa, Alexander Wurz

Retirements: 2x KR vs 4x JPM

Points: 112 KR vs 60 JPM + 4 PDR + 6 AW

Conclusion: A vintage year for all Kimi fans. Both heartbreaking and electrifying. Many times pondering what ifs, but Kimi the legend was firmly cemented in many fans hearts.

2006 - Kimi's final year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate(s): Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de la Rosa

Retirements: 6x KR vs 5x JPM (only 10 races contested in 2006 before leaving F1) + 2x PDR (8 races contested)

Points: 65 KR vs 26 JPM + 19 PDR

Conclusion: Not a great year for McLaren fans. Off track moments like Kimi walking to his yacht at Monaco the highlights.

2007 - Kimi's first year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate: Felipe Massa

Retirements: 2x KR vs 1x FM

Points: 110 KR vs 94 FM

Conclusion: A truly wonderful year for Kimi, Ferrari and their fans. Consistency and determination trumped the others. Fairly close in points to Massa, but Kimi had 6 wins vs Massa's 3. Acknowledgement must goto Massa for allowing Kimi to win in Brazil. A favour Kimi repaid to Massa in China 2008.

2008 - Kimi's second year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate: Felipe Massa

Retirements: 2x KR vs 2x FM

Points: 75 KR vs 97 FM

Conclusion: A strange year for Kimi fans. But a generally good year for Ferrari. Massa was WDC for all of two corners until Hamilton crossed the line. Massa's best year, but by no means a failure for Kimi either.

2009 - Kimi's third year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Felipe Massa, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer

Retirements: 2x KR vs 2x FM (9 races completed before accident)

Points: 48 KR vs 22 FM

Conclusion: A great win in Spa, and equal second best points haul from Hungary onwards. The same race Massa was injured in. Add to that the team announced before the summer break they had stopped development on the F60. To quote a few things on his performances after the summer break...

Raikkonen displayed some stunning performances in the latter half of the 2009 season after Ferrari halted development on the F60 to focus on the 2010 car.

According to F1 journalist James Allen, "His performances from July onwards in a car which Ferrari had stopped developing, were astonishing. Even the Ferrari engineers don’t fully understand how he managed to get some of the podiums he did based on the performance of his car, compared to the opposition."

Autosport editor Jonathan Noble also reported, "One team insider suggested that, looking at the data, Raikkonen has once again been doing things in the c#ckpit of a very difficult car that they can hardly believe. He is going beyond what, theoretically, the F60 would be capable of in normal hands as though the Finn's last great act of defiance is to prove to his former bosses that they were wrong."

There have been quite a few good articles on what happened to Kimi that year, but it did not end well with him leaving F1. This is a great read on the goings on in Ferrari at the time: http://f1bias.com/20...santander-2008/

2009 was by no means a disaster for Kimi as many like to think or suggest. I personally think the latter half of 2009 was one of Kimi's best. The team had stopped developing the car, and yet he kept on firing earning the results, not even his engineers could fully understand how he did it. This was an actual proper example of the sort of driving beyond ones car BS I keep hearing people repeat about Alonso. Yet here was an actual factual quote on the matter. For many reasons it was a difficult year, buy being constantly hounded about his motivation, he showed them wrong with a brilliant second half of the year. For some, they choose to still ignore this and pretend so otherwise.

2012 - Kimi's first year at Lotus

Team: Lotus

Team Mate(s): Romain Grosjean, Jérôme d'Ambrosio

Retirements: 0x KR vs 7x RG

Points: 207 KR vs 96 RG

Conclusion: A very good comeback for the Kimster. It brougth alot of fans back to F1, and also fans to Lotus. RG did suffer alot of DNF's, but very few were mechanical in nature. Kimi's win in Abu Dhabi and his famous radio comments were one for the ages.

2013 - Kimi's last year at Lotus

Team: Lotus

Team Mate(s): Romain Grosjean, Heikki Kovalainen

Retirements: 2x KR vs 4x RG

Points: 183 KR (in 17 races) vs 96 RG (in 19 races)

Conclusion: A great start to the year with a in in Melbourne and alot of excellent 2nd results. KR 1x Win vs 0 for RG. KR 6x 2nds vs KR x1. The lack of car development hurt the team during the course of the year, and disharmony and money issues plagued them. Kimi left the team for back surgery and other factors like not being paid by Lotus. Special douche moment by Permaine for losing the plot over the radio towards Kimi. Lotus lost many fans that day.

2014 - Kimi's fourth year at Ferrari (2nd stint)

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Fernando Alonso

Retirements: 1x KR vs 2x FA

Points: 55 KR vs 161 FA

Conclusion: A tough year for Kimi. Beaten soundly by Alonso in a car both he, James Allison and other team personal described as being virtually impossible to predict and setup. Montezemolo is replaced by Mattiacci, and Mattiacci by Arrivabene. Fans simply wanted this year to end in the hopes 2015 would bring a more settled team, and a car more to the liking of Kimi.

2015 - Kimi's fifth year at Ferrari (2nd stint)

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Sebastian Vettel

Retirements: TBD

Points: TBD

Currently: Going better than last year with Kimi already surpassing last years points total. Vettel has the upperhand, but the season is long and many things could happen. But I would not be unhappy if Vettel beat Kimi in points.

There has only been one year where Kimi has been conclusively beaten by a team mate and that was 2014. WebRic, your post has so many holes in it, I simply don't have enough time in the day to factually retort. The lack of such does not mean universal agreement to your surmisings, or that silence = you've beaten everyone in written argument. I posted that people seem to give Alonso a free pass, yet are critical of others performances. And you agree by disagreeing. Truth is Alonso is getting a free pass, but the same was not extended to Kimi last year was it. The very thing I said was going on, you confirmed in a rebuttal attempting to disagree.

Kimi has spent 12 full years in F1. And he's beaten his team mates in 8 of those years. His first was nearly a tie. The others were closer. Only 1 of the 12 years has Kimi been properly beaten in points.

I still see no evidence that Alonso is a master car developer. His famous

Those sixth tenths of a second that I have brought when I got in the car for the first time haven't been reflected at any time when we two drivers have been competing against each other.

quote seems rather silly when you look at him now considering what team he was in when he made this statement. Absolutely he will not be judged too harshly on this years performances. But you then have to allow the same leway for others drivers, in this case Kimi from last year. But instead you give Alonso a pass, then get stuck into Kimi using the same argument. It's not logical. There's been many articles on how difficult a car Kimi had under him. And most importantly from none other than James Allison himself. If you can't believe or respect his comments on the matter, then you will be hard pressed to respect anyone.

[spiral.out 0]

Well said.

[Emmcee 0]

WebRic, you're revisionist history is rather narrow. Let's look at Kimi's "significant beatings" shall we in details.

2001 - Kimi's first year in F1

Team: Sauber

Team Mate: Nick Heidfeld

Retirements: 7x KR vs 6x NH

Points: 12 NH vs 9 KR

Conclusion: Close to even for both Kimi and Nick.

2002 - Kimi's first year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 10x KR vs 4x NH

Points: 41 DC vs 24 KR

Conclusion: Beaten by DC. But suffered more than double the race retirements but scored more than 50% of DC's points. This was not an over the hill DC, this was the same DC that finished second to the one and only Schumi in 2001.

2003 - Kimi's second year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 3x KR vs 5x NH

Points: 91 KR vs 51 DC

Conclusion: A fascinating year. One in which Kimi missed out on the WDC by two points in a one year old car due to the woeful MP4-18. The feat of which has not been repeated since. In essense a very good year for Kimi.

2004 - Kimi's third year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate: David Coulthard

Retirements: 8x KR vs 4x NH

Points: 45 KR vs 24 DC

Conclusion: Double the race retirements as DC, yet Kimi scored almost twice as many points. Not a great year for McLaren, but Kimi certainly did not disgrace himself with these results.

2005 - Kimi's fourth year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate(s): Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de la Rosa, Alexander Wurz

Retirements: 2x KR vs 4x JPM

Points: 112 KR vs 60 JPM + 4 PDR + 6 AW

Conclusion: A vintage year for all Kimi fans. Both heartbreaking and electrifying. Many times pondering what ifs, but Kimi the legend was firmly cemented in many fans hearts.

2006 - Kimi's final year at McLaren

Team: McLaren

Team Mate(s): Juan Pablo Montoya, Pedro de la Rosa

Retirements: 6x KR vs 5x JPM (only 10 races contested in 2006 before leaving F1) + 2x PDR (8 races contested)

Points: 65 KR vs 26 JPM + 19 PDR

Conclusion: Not a great year for McLaren fans. Off track moments like Kimi walking to his yacht at Monaco the highlights.

2007 - Kimi's first year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate: Felipe Massa

Retirements: 2x KR vs 1x FM

Points: 110 KR vs 94 FM

Conclusion: A truly wonderful year for Kimi, Ferrari and their fans. Consistency and determination trumped the others. Fairly close in points to Massa, but Kimi had 6 wins vs Massa's 3. Acknowledgement must goto Massa for allowing Kimi to win in Brazil. A favour Kimi repaid to Massa in China 2008.

2008 - Kimi's second year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate: Felipe Massa

Retirements: 2x KR vs 2x FM

Points: 75 KR vs 97 FM

Conclusion: A strange year for Kimi fans. But a generally good year for Ferrari. Massa was WDC for all of two corners until Hamilton crossed the line. Massa's best year, but by no means a failure for Kimi either.

2009 - Kimi's third year at Ferrari

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Felipe Massa, Giancarlo Fisichella, Luca Badoer

Retirements: 2x KR vs 2x FM (9 races completed before accident)

Points: 48 KR vs 22 FM

Conclusion: A great win in Spa, and equal second best points haul from Hungary onwards. The same race Massa was injured in. Add to that the team announced before the summer break they had stopped development on the F60. To quote a few things on his performances after the summer break...

There have been quite a few good articles on what happened to Kimi that year, but it did not end well with him leaving F1. This is a great read on the goings on in Ferrari at the time: http://f1bias.com/20...santander-2008/

2009 was by no means a disaster for Kimi as many like to think or suggest. I personally think the latter half of 2009 was one of Kimi's best. The team had stopped developing the car, and yet he kept on firing earning the results, not even his engineers could fully understand how he did it. This was an actual proper example of the sort of driving beyond ones car BS I keep hearing people repeat about Alonso. Yet here was an actual factual quote on the matter. For many reasons it was a difficult year, buy being constantly hounded about his motivation, he showed them wrong with a brilliant second half of the year. For some, they choose to still ignore this and pretend so otherwise.

2012 - Kimi's first year at Lotus

Team: Lotus

Team Mate(s): Romain Grosjean, Jérôme d'Ambrosio

Retirements: 0x KR vs 7x RG

Points: 207 KR vs 96 RG

Conclusion: A very good comeback for the Kimster. It brougth alot of fans back to F1, and also fans to Lotus. RG did suffer alot of DNF's, but very few were mechanical in nature. Kimi's win in Abu Dhabi and his famous radio comments were one for the ages.

2013 - Kimi's last year at Lotus

Team: Lotus

Team Mate(s): Romain Grosjean, Heikki Kovalainen

Retirements: 2x KR vs 4x RG

Points: 183 KR (in 17 races) vs 96 RG (in 19 races)

Conclusion: A great start to the year with a in in Melbourne and alot of excellent 2nd results. KR 1x Win vs 0 for RG. KR 6x 2nds vs KR x1. The lack of car development hurt the team during the course of the year, and disharmony and money issues plagued them. Kimi left the team for back surgery and other factors like not being paid by Lotus. Special douche moment by Permaine for losing the plot over the radio towards Kimi. Lotus lost many fans that day.

2014 - Kimi's fourth year at Ferrari (2nd stint)

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Fernando Alonso

Retirements: 1x KR vs 2x FA

Points: 55 KR vs 161 FA

Conclusion: A tough year for Kimi. Beaten soundly by Alonso in a car both he, James Allison and other team personal described as being virtually impossible to predict and setup. Montezemolo is replaced by Mattiacci, and Mattiacci by Arrivabene. Fans simply wanted this year to end in the hopes 2015 would bring a more settled team, and a car more to the liking of Kimi.

2015 - Kimi's fifth year at Ferrari (2nd stint)

Team: Ferrari

Team Mate(s): Sebastian Vettel

Retirements: TBD

Points: TBD

Currently: Going better than last year with Kimi already surpassing last years points total. Vettel has the upperhand, but the season is long and many things could happen. But I would not be unhappy if Vettel beat Kimi in points.

There has only been one year where Kimi has been conclusively beaten by a team mate and that was 2014. WebRic, your post has so many holes in it, I simply don't have enough time in the day to factually retort. The lack of such does not mean universal agreement to your surmisings, or that silence = you've beaten everyone in written argument. I posted that people seem to give Alonso a free pass, yet are critical of others performances. And you agree by disagreeing. Truth is Alonso is getting a free pass, but the same was not extended to Kimi last year was it. The very thing I said was going on, you confirmed in a rebuttal attempting to disagree.

Kimi has spent 12 full years in F1. And he's beaten his team mates in 8 of those years. His first was nearly a tie. The others were closer. Only 1 of the 12 years has Kimi been properly beaten in points.

I still see no evidence that Alonso is a master car developer. His famous quote seems rather silly when you look at him now considering what team he was in when he made this statement. Absolutely he will not be judged too harshly on this years performances. But you then have to allow the same leway for others drivers, in this case Kimi from last year. But instead you give Alonso a pass, then get stuck into Kimi using the same argument. It's not logical. There's been many articles on how difficult a car Kimi had under him. And most importantly from none other than James Allison himself. If you can't believe or respect his comments on the matter, then you will be hard pressed to respect anyone.

Good post ill give you that but I could say the same thing, IMO your post is rife full of holes as this argument goes towards kimi and fernando on the same car and its simply wasnt working for him last year no matter the excuse, simple as that, all I can say is agree to disagree.

[Emmcee 0]

Well said.

Ohh god how did I know you would be on this insane bandwagon?

[maure 1]

Who gives a sht if Vettel is better than Alonso or not. Are they competing against each other? No.

The question is who brings what to a team.

Is Ferrari better off now than last year due to the change of drivers? Everyone knows the answer to this one, that is, so far no, they are not better off.

They might eventually be better off but they are not better off now. Vettel has not brought more than Alonso gave. One could argue he isn't bring less but, for Ferrari, it still means falling short.

The only aspect in which Ferrari has clearly achieved something with this change of drivers is that the fvcking pain-in-the-arse haters are no longer on their case.

Now keep Kimi out of this.

[Emmcee 0]

[quote name='maure' timestamp='1432701318' post='370548']
Who gives a sht if Vettel is better than Alonso or not. Are they competing against each other? No.

The question is who brings what to a team.

Is Ferrari better off now than last year due to the change of drivers? Everyone knows the answer to this one, that is, so far no, they are not better off.

They might eventually be better off but they are not better off now. Vettel has not brought more than Alonso gave. One could argue he isn't bring less but, for Ferrari, it still means falling short.

The only aspect in which Ferrari has clearly achieved something with this change of drivers is that the fvcking pain-in-the-arse haters are no longer on their case.

Now keep Kimi out of this.
[/quote]

Yep I agree totally. Just like kimi was out of excuses for alonso last year? Sorry ill stop enough, I've milked this cow to much.

[spiral.out 0]

Who gives a sht if Vettel is better than Alonso or not. Are they competing against each other? No.

The question is who brings what to a team.

Is Ferrari better off now than last year due to the change of drivers? Everyone knows the answer to this one, that is, so far no, they are not better off.

They might eventually be better off but they are not better off now. Vettel has not brought more than Alonso gave. One could argue he isn't bring less but, for Ferrari, it still means falling short.

The only aspect in which Ferrari has clearly achieved something with this change of drivers is that the fvcking pain-in-the-arse haters are no longer on their case.

Now keep Kimi out of this.

The senility is strong with this one.

[Emmcee 0]

I post a truce, whoever follows who and likes whoever, lets just leave it at , the kimi and alonso debate is endless and like I said before we simply have to agree to disagree. It's not going to change my opinion on kimi fans, I still think your all deuchebags lol iam only kidding. Lets keep it friendly guys.

[KoolMonkey 0]

Good post ill give you that but I could say the same thing, IMO your post is rife full of holes as this argument goes towards kimi and fernando on the same car and its simply wasnt working for him last year no matter the excuse, simple as that, all I can say is agree to disagree.

Full of holes? That's your reply? The agree to disagree line isn't a get out of jail free card. Make some effort and offer a rebuttal if you feel that is the case.

At no point did I even think of comparing Kimi to Alonso in the same car other than 2014. Why? Because it's the only year we can do a direct comparison. And one year isn't never enough to get the whole picture.

...its simply wasnt working for him last year no matter the excuse...

You are talking about Alonso right? No of course not, you're talking about Kimi. Thus I can copy & paste exactly what you said, replace the word last for this and it comes out to be perfect when applied to Alonso in the McLaren.

[maure 1]

Yep I agree totally. Just like kimi was out of excuses for alonso last year? Sorry ill stop enough, I've milked this cow to much.

Like I said earlier, some folks lose their marbles when it comes to Alonso. They just seem unable to be rational about it.

Shrug.

It's also a stupid stance to adopt. To fail to properly appraise Alonso (for good and bad) makes it impossible to properly appraise F1 (for good and bad). How can they ever hope to be taken seriously...

Meanwhile, Mercedes takes another step closer to the edge. Wolf now says that they told Hamilton to stay out but he said nope. Oops, here come the "sparks".

Speaking of which, Verstappen. I liked his race. A lot. I mostly watched him and Vettel (who did a great job, btw). I wouldn't say he wasn't at fault in the accident. The penalty, well, what could the marshals do. But I reckon the criticism is bullsht. The aggressiveness is welcome and he's got the instinct to build phenomenal racing craft.

[KoolMonkey 0]

I'm not sure if Gro brake checked Verstappen or not. He did seem to slow suddenly though. Vettel had a good race and was within distince of Nico the whole time. Who knows what may have come had his car not gone all power slide rallying into the first corner when the lights went out.

Wolf and Merc said they told Hamilton to stay out litterly minutes after the race had ended, so I don't think this is any PR exercise here. Rather simply repeating it for the keyboard warriors raging away online. It's sad really. Hamilton once again plays the victim, and let's this ruckus go on. All he'd have to do is come out and verify Merc told him to stay out, but he's not that type of person is he. He'd rather this play out and keep on remaining the "honest victim". As if we havn't seen this countless times before.

[Emmcee 0]

Full of holes? That's your reply? The agree to disagree line isn't a get out of jail free card. Make some effort and offer a rebuttal if you feel that is the case.

At no point did I even think of comparing Kimi to Alonso in the same car other than 2014. Why? Because it's the only year we can do a direct comparison. And one year isn't never enough to get the whole picture.

You are talking about Alonso right? No of course not, you're talking about Kimi. Thus I can copy & paste exactly what you said, replace the word last for this and it comes out to be perfect when applied to Alonso in the McLaren.

Man your cold arnt you, iam not going to repeat what I've already said a million times. You can't compare alonso to kimi in what 6 races in a Mclaren that can barely crack the top ten, if that's your defence, iam sorry but IMO you simply don't know what your talking about. Kimi in 2014 had plenty of time to make ground on alonso, did it happen? No way, I said to make a truce as its like beating my head against a wall, is so bloody obvious and yet people still find straws to clutch at when comparing the two in 2014. That's why I said to agree to disagree. Simple as that I honestly think alonso as a person is an absolute prick but you can't overlook his talent and that's what I look at every driver like. Weather I like or hate them, ill praise who ever if the job they do is better than the rest or they do well with what they have. One year is plenty when Ferrari consistantly say "oh we have done this and kimi will improve" I don't know how many times they said that, maybe that's where Redbull got the idea from to say every chassis Vettel went through would help him improove. If you say one year isn't enough then why can't you compare how each did against there relative teammates? You did but not team mates THEY both had I mean look at how kimi performed against Massa, look at how alonso performed against Massa, then look at how they performed against each other and now look at how kimi is performing against Ferrari new boy Vettel, who has spent less time at Ferrari than kimi. If that's not enough eveidence then I don't know what is, nothing will convince you then so that is why I said lets leave it.

[spiral.out 0]

Hard to tell from the video.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

simple...

Alonso did not have any input to mould this year's car to his liking and influence those around him with his devious plans of defacto nr one... Alonso fans should see it as a positive too, cause he didn't have a chance yet to develop the car into a donkey

Got Flavio to chase Trulli away when the guy started beating him... madness

Now there two driver's starting on par with the MclarenHonda and his weaknesses are exposed...

[Emmcee 0]

simple...

Alonso did not have any input to mould this year's car to his liking and influence those around him with his devious plans of defacto nr one... Alonso fans should see it as a positive too, cause he didn't have a chance yet to develop the car into a donkey

Got Flavio to chase Trulli away when the guy started beating him... madness

Now there two driver's starting on par with the MclarenHonda and his weaknesses are exposed...

How can you make anything out of this season when the reliability is shocking? You simply can't and if people do, that's just an excuse to take a jab. Like I said before, if Mclaren sort it out and alonso gets beaten, sure ill admit it, I always do. People didnt seem to see that alonso was leading button in the championship prior to Monaco as having the best result at the time. Even though alonso didnt finish in Monaco, he would have scored points, would have he finished ahead of button? No I don't think he would have.