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#1 Insider

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:11 AM

At the moment, there is so much happening in F1, on a day-to-day basis, and so many diverse active threads on the forum now, I thought that we might have a thread where we can post any comments, relating to any aspect of the rapidly changing situation. For example: FIA, FOTA, Max, Bernie, Driver Market, Teams, Sponsors, Upgrades - all as it comes in.

One thing that struck me as ominous today was the comments made by Carlos Gracia, the head of the Spanish motorsport federation, a FIA Senate and WMSC member as he chided Luca di Montezemolo, slamming the FOTA chairman for his "lack of respect" in the wake of last Wednesday's peace agreement with FOTA. He went on to say:

"I don't support Max Mosley to the death, but I do support respecting institutions, and what Luca di Montezemolo has done was show a lack of respect to the FIA and the World Council," Gracia told Spanish radio station Onda Cero.

"It wouldn't surprise me if Max Mosley runs for re-election. The worst thing you can do with an animal is leave him wounded, and what Luca di Montezemolo has achieved is to re-activate Max. You can't dance on someone's grave before he's dead."

In reference to rumours that Mosley was grooming Jean Todt to succeed him, Gracia commented:

"Unless Max has gone even more mad I don't think he'll back Jean Todt because we all know where he comes from and who he's linked to."

I think the last comment gives great insight into the FIA's level of tolerance of Mosley's machinations and what little regard there is for the Scuderia within the higher echelons of the FIA. Gracia did not rule out the option that he may run himself - if Max doesn't, that is. It's clear that this mess will never get cleaned up unless LDM and/or Ferrari apologise publicly to the Max  and more importantly, the FIA.  Pigs might fly.

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Edited by Insider, 30 June 2009 - 09:18 AM.

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#2 wapi

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:05 AM

The most disturbing part of Garcia's comment is in Dictator? thread that I started yesterday. For your convenience I'll copy it here also :)

"I'm not ruling out running for president of the FIA," he said. "I believe Max Mosley has a lot of support and I would think twice before running against him, because I don't want to take any risks that may damage Spanish motorsport. Above all, I'm the president of the Spanish Federation and I have to defend Spanish sport."

#3 Insider

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:09 PM

View Postwapi, on 30 June 2009 - 10:05 AM, said:

The most disturbing part of Garcia's comment is in Dictator? thread that I started yesterday. For your convenience I'll copy it here also :)

"I'm not ruling out running for president of the FIA," he said. "I believe Max Mosley has a lot of support and I would think twice before running against him, because I don't want to take any risks that may damage Spanish motorsport. Above all, I'm the president of the Spanish Federation and I have to defend Spanish sport."
Frightening, isn't it.  What does Max have on these people?

I see BGP have new parts for Germany. They were intended for Silverstone:

http://www.totalf1.c...d_to_fight_RBR/
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#4 Argento Reloaded

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

As I said the war is open and the FOTA isnt as strong as it seems. If they can manage a new series and earn all the money for them they do it. Or did it. In 2006 or 2010 or 2015. But they cant fire Max! The FIA, Bernie and the FOTA needs each other because all are only a part of the business. So how long the war will be? At least till 2012. Who will won? Is difficult to know by now but Bernie and the FIA has more to lose than the FOTA. But dont undervalue Bernie: his strong foe is the time.
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#5 Insider

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 12:47 PM

View PostArgento, on 30 June 2009 - 02:07 PM, said:

As I said the war is open and the FOTA isnt as strong as it seems. If they can manage a new series and earn all the money for them they do it. Or did it. In 2006 or 2010 or 2015. But they cant fire Max! The FIA, Bernie and the FOTA needs each other because all are only a part of the business. So how long the war will be? At least till 2012. Who will won? Is difficult to know by now but Bernie and the FIA has more to lose than the FOTA. But dont undervalue Bernie: his strong foe is the time.

Nothing from either side today, Argento.  Bottom line? Every thing gets sorted in the end.
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#6 Insider

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 02:13 PM

View PostInsider, on 01 July 2009 - 12:47 PM, said:

Nothing from either side today, Argento.  Bottom line? Every thing gets sorted in the end.
Rumours abound again that Toyota will pull Fuji in 2010.  It's time Bernie re-calculated his fees in line with circuit's running costs or we'll be racing in empty stadia before long.
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#7 JHS

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 02:29 PM

Red Bull have changed their reserve driver with Jaime Alguersuari taking over from Brendon Hartley. Good!
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#8 mikathegreat2

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:22 PM

View PostJHS, on 01 July 2009 - 02:29 PM, said:

Red Bull have changed their reserve driver with Jaime Alguersuari taking over from Brendon Hartley. Good!
Does he have a super license??
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#9 JHS

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 03:36 PM

Must have. Because of course there were rumours going around that he'd replace Bourdais for the German GP.
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#10 Cinco

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:25 PM

No, not Bourdais!  According to SPEED TV, he is, after all, a 4-time F1 WDC!

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Whoops.
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#11 Rainmaster

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 04:44 PM

Maybe they got him confused with Prost.
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#12 mikathegreat2

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 06:00 PM

View PostCinco, on 01 July 2009 - 04:25 PM, said:

No, not Bourdais!  According to SPEED TV, he is, after all, a 4-time F1 WDC!

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Whoops.
:lol:  :lol: I guess they forgot ChampCar existed!
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#13 F1 FANatic

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:35 AM

View PostCinco, on 01 July 2009 - 04:25 PM, said:

No, not Bourdais!  According to SPEED TV, he is, after all, a 4-time F1 WDC!

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Whoops.

HAHA, that is funny, where was this? Its not when he was on the F1 grid, he has on white overalls
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#14 Insider

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:43 AM

I think FOTA should look at this situation closely.  It could either be construed as a severe warning against setting up their own series or a golden opportunity not to be missed.  




Quote

For the Middle East and Asia-based stock car series Speedcar, the end of the road has come. The official website is off the air amid reports the organisation has been closed down after just two seasons.

Speedcar featured stock cars driven by mainly ex-F1 drivers, including Jacques Villeneuve, Jean Alesi, Johnny Herbert, Heinz-Harald Frentzen and Vitantonio Liuzzi.

Meanwhile, it is reported that the future of the A1 GP series is in serious doubt, following the collapse of the British arm of the organisation.

A1 Grand Prix Operations Ltd ran the day-to-day administration of the championship but went into liquidation last Wednesday, the Telegraph newspaper said.







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#15 Insider

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:05 AM

Driver market just got interesting too with Germany's Bild rumouring that Vettel is in Ferrari's sights as the Scuderia goes for a complete driver clearout.  Problem there is, Nando won't share. Personally, if I were SF I'd dump the Alonso move and buy Rosberg to invest in consistency and harmony.  Heidfield's free and so is Kovi but it's hard to see them getting a top ride.  Rosberg is probably the best foil for Hamilton on paper but Hiedfeld could do the same job, as could Rubens. Kimi will obviously go rallying and drinking and Massa would slide in well at Renault, Red Bull or BMW.  I can also see someone making a move for JB and the Hinwil mob are probably the favourites.  Peter Sauber made a point this week of singling Jens out for special praise and confessing that Button was a one-time target for him.  That's how these things start, y'know?
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#16 Insider

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:06 AM

View PostCinco, on 01 July 2009 - 04:25 PM, said:

No, not Bourdais!  According to SPEED TV, he is, after all, a 4-time F1 WDC!

Posted Image

Whoops.
Excellent!
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#17 JHS

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:35 AM

View PostF1 FANatic, on 02 July 2009 - 12:35 AM, said:

HAHA, that is funny, where was this? Its not when he was on the F1 grid, he has on white overalls


I believe this is when he did the 12 hours of Sebring with Peugeot just before F1 started.
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#18 medilloni

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:21 PM

View PostInsider, on 02 July 2009 - 09:05 AM, said:

Driver market just got interesting .....................I can also see someone making a move for JB and the Hinwil mob are probably the favourites.  Peter Sauber made a point this week of singling Jens out for special praise and confessing that Button was a one-time target for him.  That's how these things start, y'know?

BMW - currently underperforming, but the potential to go head to head with Ferrari and MacMerc, should be a great choice to go to....

Brawn - Great car and team, but until sponsors/finances are known, they could slip down faster than a nurses' frock.

He'll still throw his lot in with Brawn though. And if there's no refuelling, the rules are favouring the smoothies.


EDIT: I forgot Bourdais.  Call a vet and put him out of his misery.

Edited by medilloni, 02 July 2009 - 12:25 PM.

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#19 mikathegreat2

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 12:36 PM

View PostF1 FANatic, on 02 July 2009 - 12:35 AM, said:

HAHA, that is funny, where was this? Its not when he was on the F1 grid, he has on white overalls
It looks like he was @ Sebring 12 Hours racing for Peugeot as I recognise the banner with the winners names!
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#20 JHS

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 06:35 PM

News in today's Autosport on Campos Meta's drivers!....



.....sort of. An announcement will be made about one of the drivers at the European Grand Prix.

I wouldn't be at all suprised if it was Pantano though.
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#21 Rainmaster

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:11 PM

Pantano, great, another driver not worthy of an F1 seat.
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#22 Cinco

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:50 PM

View PostEl Maestro, on 02 July 2009 - 07:11 PM, said:

Pantano, great, another driver not worthy of an F1 seat.

If I had the passwords of my old accounts, I would log in to all of them just to rate your post up five times.  It was that good.
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#23 mikathegreat2

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:57 PM

Pantano is GP2 champion so he's worth another look!
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#24 Cinco

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:12 PM

Yeah, but Nelson A. Piquet was second only to Lewis when he raced GP2, and he's probably the worst on the grid.  

I've said it all along, GP2 isn't very good at developing drivers for F1.  Few series are.  Even when CART had close to 900 hp, guys like Zanardi couldn't cut it in F1.  It seems to me that you have to already have the natural ability.  Pantano doesn't.  F1 really is for the elitest of the elite, even the worst in F1 are better than the best in other series (for the most part, at least), so winning a GP2 title doesn't qualify you for much.  You can't learn F1 anywhere else because it's just so much more challenging for drivers than any other series.

Besides, Pantano wasn't very impressive in the IRL, and there's very, very little talent in the IRL (especially at that time in the pre-merge days)...had he been a full-time IRL driver, he wouldn't have been good enough to qualify for a Super License (must be third or better in the championship), and that was with Ganassi of all teams!

Then again, God could drive for Campos or any of the new teams and still finish last car running so it doesn't matter much.
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#25 JHS

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:34 PM

View PostCinco, on 02 July 2009 - 08:12 PM, said:

Then again, God could drive for Campos or any of the new teams and still finish last car running so it doesn't matter much.

May i remind you of a prediction you made before the season started on a now defunct forum?

"Everybody will score points about from Brawn/who cares?"

Hmm......stanger things have happened......
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#26 Cinco

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 08:44 PM

View PostJHS, on 02 July 2009 - 08:34 PM, said:

May i remind you of a prediction you made before the season started on a now defunct forum?

"Everybody will score points about from Brawn/who cares?"

Hmm......stanger things have happened......

:lol: Fair enough, but do recall I said that BEFORE the first test :P.  Now, of course I didn't predict them to be this good, so fair enough.

But Campos, US F1, and Manor don't exactly have guys like Ross Brawn on their team, either, and they did have a Honda chassis for this year that Brawn had been working on during 2008 so Brawn didn't start from complete nothing like these three are.

I think it'd be insane to think US F1, Campos, or Manor will score points on anything other than some bizarre fluke next year.
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#27 Rainmaster

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:42 PM

A few things had to happen at the same time for Honda/Brawn to do what they have. Firstly they had to start working on their 2009 car earlier than everyone else, Secondly they had to hire someone who could organise the team in a better way than all the other teams, Thirdly and most importantly there had to be a massive regulation change. Unless those conditions happen again in 2010 (they won't 'cos the regs are the same) we won't see any new team doing a Brawn.

The Brawn car was one of the most developed and expensive cars ever made in F1 history, so really it shouldn't have been a surprise what they did and it wasn't really very strange, at all! Only our perceptions & assumptions at the time made it strange; I think in hindsight it would have been strange if they hadn't been near the front.

Anyway, like Eric says, no matter what driver these new teams have they're still gonna be towards the back. Probably.

Edited by El Maestro, 02 July 2009 - 09:43 PM.

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#28 Insider

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:38 AM

View PostEl Maestro, on 02 July 2009 - 09:42 PM, said:

A few things had to happen at the same time for Honda/Brawn to do what they have. Firstly they had to start working on their 2009 car earlier than everyone else, Secondly they had to hire someone who could organise the team in a better way than all the other teams, Thirdly and most importantly there had to be a massive regulation change. Unless those conditions happen again in 2010 (they won't 'cos the regs are the same) we won't see any new team doing a Brawn.

The Brawn car was one of the most developed and expensive cars ever made in F1 history, so really it shouldn't have been a surprise what they did and it wasn't really very strange, at all! Only our perceptions & assumptions at the time made it strange; I think in hindsight it would have been strange if they hadn't been near the front.

Anyway, like Eric says, no matter what driver these new teams have they're still gonna be towards the back. Probably.

Triple Minardis all round, please!
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#29 monza gorilla

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:48 AM

While we're on the subject of new teams, and Manor in particular:

http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=38324

Hmmm.
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#30 Insider

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:58 AM

Today, The Guardian reports that on 29 May, two weeks before the FIA announced the identity of the three successful bidders for a place on the 2010 grid, Donnelly sent a sponsorship and investment agreement about Manor to a certain 'Royal Highness' who he hoped to meet in Saudi Arabia.

The email (complete with spelling mistakes), which is allegedly from Donnelly, says "I attach both the investment and sponsorship agreement for your consideration. Virgin have signed to be investment partners with a share holding of around 20%. I will be in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on Saturday evening and look forward to seeing you at our planned meeting at 3pm on Sunday, with representatives of Manor and Virgin. However if you woud like a pre- meeting with me privately on Sunday then please let me know, I will ofcourse be available."

If Donnelly really was touting around investment opportunities in the team before it got to the grid it raises huge conflict of interest issues.

By selling stakes in Manor, Donnelly would have been helping the team get investment which thereby improved its financial position. Clearly, no one connected to the FIA should have been favouring any prospective teams and particularly one which also has the involvement of Nick Wirth, who was one of Max Mosley's business partners in the 1990s before he launched the Simtek F1 team.

Furthermore, one has to wonder whether Donnelly would have bothered brokering deals for a team which didn't get to the grid. Then again, how could Donnelly possibly have known that it would?

According to the Guardian, Donnelly was in Saudi Arabia on official FIA business, holding meetings with its sports ministry, potential investors in new circuits and the Saudi Motorsport Federation. "I also met potential investors in Formula One," he said. "It would be odd for an FIA representative to refuse to assist in any of these projects."

That may be so but there is a big difference between assisting with a team and brokering the sale of a stake in it.

If Donnelly's response in the Guardian is anything to go by, it doesn't look as if he is denying that the email really was from him which in itself seems to raise a further question about his competence.

The email is signed off 'God Bless' which certainly does not seem to be an appropriate way to address anyone in the Arab world. After last year's revelations about Mosley's private life, the FIA surely doesn't need more embarrassment heaped on it by blunders like this.

The clean-cut Richard Branson must be cringing on reading this and it is hard to imagine how he got sucked into this crazy scheme in the first place. It could well be argued that sponsors should stick to what they do best, which is sponsoring not owning teams. Having been in F1 for less than a year Virgin is not exactly experienced in F1's eccentricities and it could soon pay the price following this latest revelation. If the email is accurate, Virgin will have gone from sponsoring the likely world champions Brawn to owning a stake in a team which, assuming it does make it to the 2010 grid, is unlikely to be regularly challenging for points far less wins.

The pit lane is buzzing with a story that FOTA will ask the FIA to re-run the 2010 selection process from scratch.  Dallara may be nearing the wind tunnel stage with the new Campos, USF1 are at an advanced stage and Manor way be some way along too but something stinks here and for a brand like Prodrive/Aston Martin with their fine racing heritage and pedigree plus the ultra professional Epsilon to be denied the chance to race in F1 is mind-boggling. I don't care whose toes Dave Richards may have stepped on.  It's incongruous, to say the least.

SOURCE: The Guardian & Pitpass

Edited by Insider, 03 July 2009 - 07:59 AM.

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