2810 replies to this topic

[JHS]

Insider, on 09 July 2009 - 08:51 AM, said:

Of course, they should race - support from the fans is paramount if the teams do breakaway - but, they must feel desperately frustrated and nothing would surprise me, to be honest.

They wouldn't get any respect from me if they boycotted any races this year, i certainly wouldn't watch ant more of the races this year. FOTA are learning the hard way that they don't rule F1, FIA do, and it's been that way for countless years. FOTA should take their head out of the sand and realise this.

F1 exists to serve the fans, without the fans there is no F1. If the teams boycotted the race, it would be incredibly selfish. In a sport that talks of millions and loose cash, don't they realise there is a recession going on? The people who will be there have worked hard to get there because of the huge ticket prices. With that huge price, they expect a race, and a bloody good one at that. Therefore boycotting the race could in a way be the death of F1, in Germany at least, because i'm pretty sure the track owners won't want to give refunds to all those people which is a terrible shame.

It was different in the USGP '05 because there there was a safety hazard to the drivers. It was a shambles how they handled it though. It was just a solution couldn't be found. This time there is so safety hazard, just too many egos in F1 who don't care about the racing.

At the end of the day for the millions tuning in world wide also, we tune in to see a race, not political crap.

Sort it out FOTA.

Edited by JHS, 09 July 2009 - 10:24 AM.

[Rainmaster]

I don't think there have been any boycotting tactics yet from FOTA, so don't rip into them for something that hasn't and almost certainly won't happen! If FOTA had any teeth they probably would boycott a race or two, problem is if they do that everybody will think they are the enemy, and they'll lose a bit of leverage/support in the press and most importantly with the fans.

[Jean Todt]

Blah blah FIA blah Fota Blah..

[JHS]

Hmm:

"Fernando Alonso has rubbished speculation linking him yet again to the Ferrari team, saying he is not even in talks with the Italian squad."

Nobody likes a know-it-all, but the words "told you" spring to mind. This is a rumour that refuses to die.

[Kati]

Quote

I read the Autosport report. I was incorrect in my assumption. However, having read more detail, I would say the FOTA 8 are on their way out of F1 as it is now. Moreover, I believe Bernie may go with them. How about them apples?

indeed. if fota is out, bernie is also, and thatd probably change some things at fia.

[Cinco]

I wouldn't be gloating about your grid predictions yet, JHS.  Alonso may or may not be in talks with Ferrari.  If he is, do you really think Ferrari would want him to come out and say "oh yes, I've been talking to Ferrari, I just signed a three year deal, we'll announce it at Monza."  If he did, the talks would end immediately, the contract would be gone, and he'd have no chance.  It happens all the time; you never talk about future deals until the people you're dealing with give you permission to.  At this point, Alonso certainly wouldn't have had permission.  So he could be telling a fib to get people off his case.  The rumor doesn't die because...partly, wishful thinking, and partly, do you really think he'll never go to Ferrari, ever?  If not 2010, probably 2011.  Ferrari were only able to win one title post-Schumacher, with Kimi, and Kimi won't race beyond 2010, if he even does race in 2010.  Massa's done better than expected, but still can't put it all together.  They're missing a top-level driver without Kimi, and Alonso's the only one who would be available when Kimi's gone, this year or next, so...he wants it, they want it, it'll happen eventually.

Edited by Cinco, 09 July 2009 - 03:10 PM.

[Rainmaster]

I agree with Dave.

[JHS]

Cinco, on 09 July 2009 - 03:10 PM, said:

I wouldn't be gloating about your grid predictions yet, JHS.  Alonso may or may not be in talks with Ferrari.  

This rumour comes up every year though, Kimi has a contract at Ferrari, he's basically confirmed he'll be there, and Alonso has rubbished these rumours once again. Every year the same thing comes up and every year Alonso says there is no truth behind them. Once again, i think this is pure wishful rumours.

[Quiet One]

I disagree. I have no idea whether he will actually go to Ferrari or not, but the fact that he or somebody at Ferrari denies the rumours means nothing. As James Allen (I think) pointed out, Ferrari and Schumi did the same just a couple of weeks before Schumi was signed in for them.

As for FA, Ferrari has always wanted him. It was Todt who didn't want him. And Todt is gone so...

[Insider]

FOTA won't break away, boycott races or the like as long as a new deal is hammered out with CVC - a new Concorde Agreement.  However, it is not that simple. There are two flies in the ointment. One: Bernie's idiotic endorsement of Hitler as a leader and further, his condemnation of modern day Jewish bankers.  BMW, RBR and Mercedes are not impressed.  Two: An undertaking from the rights holders that Max will be persuaded to stick to his promise to stand down. Either that or FOM break with the FIA. FOTA will not stay unless a new Concorde Agreement is forthcoming, in short order with the Max 'thing' sorted to boot.

The Alonso/SF deal has lost it's charm for the Scuderia, I believe.  However, the Santander people may insist. I see Vettel as the prize now.  Mercedes want him in a Merc-powered ride - hence the RBR engine switch rumours - and my sources tell me the Scuderia will do anything to get him.  Kimi is off rallying - for good - I'd put money on it.

[JHS]

Quiet One, on 09 July 2009 - 06:13 PM, said:

As for FA, Ferrari has always wanted him. It was Todt who didn't want him. And Todt is gone so...

Raikkonen insists he is commited to F1
By Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer

Kimi Raikkonen has denied that his forthcoming World Rally Championship debut should be taken as a sign that he is losing interest in Formula 1 and pondering a switch of disciplines.The former world champion will contest the Rally Finland later this month in a Production class Super 2000 Punto run by WRC legend Tommi Makinen. The entry follows two appearances in lower-level rallies in Scandinavia and Italy earlier this year.

News of his WRC appearance was followed by another round of speculation linking Fernando Alonso to a 2010 Ferrari seat in Raikkonen's place, but the Finn insisted he would be honouring his F1 contract, which runs until the end of next year.

"If I wasn't interested in Formula 1, I wouldn't be here," said Raikkonen. "I'm still here. For the future, I've always said that I still have next year and during next year I'll see different options and see what will happen in the future."

He said he was tiring of the constant rumours about his future and Alonso's links with Ferrari.

"It's the same at every race. You ask and it's the same thing. The answers haven't changed," he said. "I have a contract. You'll have to ask the team and see if they say something else, but I'm pretty sure they'll say the same."

Raikkonen dismissed any suggestion that competing in the WRC in the middle of an F1 season was a risk.

"I did a rally in the winter, two rallies, and one during the year not a long time ago in Italy, and it's no different," he said.

"It's a rally and some people say it's more risky on some of the stages but all of motorsport is dangerous. You can even get hurt walking on the street. There's no reason why I shouldn't do it.

"It's fun, the team let me do it, it's good for them also as it's Fiat. It's all a positive thing. Like I said, you can get hurt, but you can get hurt here so it's not much different."

He admitted that he does not expect to be a class frontrunner immediately in the WRC.

"It's a very difficult sport and you want to go in at the top level, the same as coming to F1," said Raikkonen. "It's not so difficult to drive maybe five seconds slower than we do, but once you need to find the last half a second or two tenths, it's always hard. It's the same story in rallying."

The Finn also revealed that he had been keen to enter rallies mid-season for many years, but that he had not been permitted to when driving for McLaren in F1.

"I would have done rallying many years before if my past team would have let me," said Raikkonen.

"It's only because Ferrari are kind enough and let me do the rallies, that's why I do it. It would have happened many, many years ago. Plus I've been doing it before the season. It's not like I haven't done it before.

"People always try to make big stories from things that are not really anything to do with other things."

From Autosport

Can't get much more confirming can you? Kimi WILL be at Ferrari 2010. He's said so now himself, twice infact. Alonso has rubbished it also. Does that end this ongoing rumour now for this year or do people here actually need to ask Kimi himself before they believe it?

Edited by JHS, 09 July 2009 - 08:30 PM.

[Quiet One]

JHS, on 09 July 2009 - 08:28 PM, said:

Raikkonen insists he is commited to F1
By Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer
Blah blah, Kimi blah

From Autosport

Can't get much more confirming can you? Kimi WILL be at Ferrari 2010. He's said so now himself, twice infact. Alonso has rubbished it also. Does that end this ongoing rumour now for this year or do people here actually need to ask Kimi himself before they believe it?

I can't see the relevance with regards to my post. First, Kimi denying that he will be fired and replaced by Alonso (or Vettel, or Bourdais) is worthless. "Hey, Kimi, are you going to be fired and replaced by Alonso next year?" "Yes. I will be left out and will end up recording an album with JV".
Second, I am not really argumenting whether Alonso will actually move to Ferrari or not. As Sean pointed out, maybe they decided that his time has already passed, I have no idea. They were more than interested a few months ago, though, and both Luca and Alonso made significant comments to fuel these rumours.

What I was arguing against is the reasoning "X rubbished the rumours, hence they are not true". There is no statement from Luca, Alonso or Kimi worth enough to deny this rumour. It was always like this in F1. So you better get used to them because they will keep staying around until the line up formation for 2010 is confirmed beyond all doubt or until one of these frivers retire from F1 altogether.

[Kati]

Insider, on 09 July 2009 - 07:56 PM, said:

FOTA won't break away, boycott races or the like as long as a new deal is hammered out with CVC - a new Concorde Agreement.  However, it is not that simple. There are two flies in the ointment. One: Bernie's idiotic endorsement of Hitler as a leader and further, his condemnation of modern day Jewish bankers.  BMW, RBR and Mercedes are not impressed.  Two: An undertaking from the rights holders that Max will be persuaded to stick to his promise to stand down. Either that or FOM break with the FIA. FOTA will not stay unless a new Concorde Agreement is forthcoming, in short order with the Max 'thing' sorted to boot.

The Alonso/SF deal has lost it's charm for the Scuderia, I believe.  However, the Santander people may insist. I see Vettel as the prize now.  Mercedes want him in a Merc-powered ride - hence the RBR engine switch rumours - and my sources tell me the Scuderia will do anything to get him.  Kimi is off rallying - for good - I'd put money on it.

we're not seeing a vettel answer until 2011, though. til then he stays in rbr. they may build their own rb06 around his driving style for next season. and honestly if there's no 'turning back' on grid orders (meaning ferrari and mclaren back on top), i dont see sebastian going there. i mean, theres the appeal he's always wanted to drive a red car, but what's the point of driving a red car if it doesn't make you win? while red bull can provide him a top car, he will stay there.

[Cinco]

Yeah, it is kind of weird how everyone and their mother has been linked to Ferrari and McLaren, and yet Red Bull's having their biggest year ever and on the verge of a serious WCC bid in 2010, and there could well be an open seat at Brawn...

I'd be signing a short-term deal with those teams, personally.  It's about winning, not colors of cars and traditions.

[Insider]

Kati, on 09 July 2009 - 11:01 PM, said:

we're not seeing a vettel answer until 2011, though. til then he stays in rbr. they may build their own rb06 around his driving style for next season. and honestly if there's no 'turning back' on grid orders (meaning ferrari and mclaren back on top), i dont see sebastian going there. i mean, theres the appeal he's always wanted to drive a red car, but what's the point of driving a red car if it doesn't make you win? while red bull can provide him a top car, he will stay there.

If Ferrari keep Kimi on I will be very surprised, let's put it like that.  RBR may well build it's next car around SV's style. It's a little ominous to see Willis leaving though.  You could say he was Newey's right hand - most of the pit lane would. With Ross Brawn having recently released his hitherto deputy, Geoff could be easily be heading to BGP.  We'll know soon enough. However, He's quite capable of running a design project entirely on his own and Maranello may be an option too. Either way, I feel RBR are a little too inconsistent still and with super softs available this week end, I believe tyre temps are going to be less of an issue.  Brawn have aero upgrades that were not deployed at Silverstone too and I expect them to come right back at Red Bull. RBR had certainly caught up but mainly through a good replication of the BGP001's best aerodynamic features and more grip in the cold.  I believe Vettel will be a much better driver by 2011 - he still isn't the complete article yet, I feel - and RBR will be struggling to hold on to him.  If they take a Merc engine in 2010, he may well be in a Brawn by 2011 or, indeed, a Macca.

[JHS]

Interestingly The King of 2 wheels, The Doctor, has not ruled out a switch to F1- and Ferrari, in 2011:

"It could happen in 2011-why not?"

[JHS]

Quiet One, on 09 July 2009 - 09:42 PM, said:

What I was arguing against is the reasoning "X rubbished the rumours, hence they are not true". There is no statement from Luca, Alonso or Kimi worth enough to deny this rumour. It was always like this in F1. So you better get used to them because they will keep staying around until the line up formation for 2010 is confirmed beyond all doubt or until one of these frivers retire from F1 altogether.

"It's the same at every race. You ask and it's the same thing. The answers haven't changed," he said. "I have a contract. You'll have to ask the team and see if they say something else, but I'm pretty sure they'll say the same."

If that isn't conformation, i don't know what is.

[Kati]

Insider, on 10 July 2009 - 05:26 AM, said:

If Ferrari keep Kimi on I will be very surprised, let's put it like that.  RBR may well build it's next car around SV's style. It's a little ominous to see Willis leaving though.  You could say he was Newey's right hand - most of the pit lane would. With Ross Brawn having recently released his hitherto deputy, Geoff could be easily be heading to BGP.  We'll know soon enough. However, He's quite capable of running a design project entirely on his own and Maranello may be an option too. Either way, I feel RBR are a little too inconsistent still and with super softs available this week end, I believe tyre temps are going to be less of an issue.  Brawn have aero upgrades that were not deployed at Silverstone too and I expect them to come right back at Red Bull. RBR had certainly caught up but mainly through a good replication of the BGP001's best aerodynamic features and more grip in the cold.  I believe Vettel will be a much better driver by 2011 - he still isn't the complete article yet, I feel - and RBR will be struggling to hold on to him.  If they take a Merc engine in 2010, he may well be in a Brawn by 2011 or, indeed, a Macca.

in fact its not first time mclaren does want to give engines to another team for a driver. didn't work before, so i dont see it happening. about rb, i think they were not expecting at first to fight for anything at all, so may take them a while to get this 'consistence' missing. however, i do no see brawn on top for much longer, not til 2011. i think by then the grid may have already messed up a bit. And well, if Sebastian wanted to go Mclaren, he would've gone already, when they called every single german driver they could. Sitting in a McLaren and beside Lewis after what happened to Fernando does not seem the plan in anyone's mind at all. Heikki was what, their 56th option?

[Argento Reloaded]

With all Fota vs. FIA hype the engineers changes is almost unattended by the forums. What�s the meaning of all those goodbyes? Looking for new positions on other teams or -as no test is allowed-the teams doesn�t need them anymore?

[Cinco]

JHS, on 10 July 2009 - 07:42 AM, said:

Interestingly The King of 2 wheels, The Doctor, has not ruled out a switch to F1- and Ferrari, in 2011:

"It could happen in 2011-why not?"

Yeah, he's just looking for attention, it makes a fun story and gets his name in the headlines.  He said in an article on SPEEDTV a month ago he'd only go to F1 in 2011 if they allowed three cars like they might.  His F1 test was impressive for his first time ever in a car, but for actually going racing...nope.  His pace was as good as Jeff Gordon's was in his drive of the Williams, and he certainly didn't have Frank down on his knees begging him to join the team.  It doesn't matter what he's done in bikes, or who he is, or what his nationality is, or any of that...1.5 seconds off the pace in what was the best car on the grid at that time is still 1.5 seconds off the pace.  If he doesn't do a year of testing to improve on that, he's not going to cut it here.  And I'm sure Ferrari knows it, and he probably knows it too.

JHS, on 10 July 2009 - 07:45 AM, said:

"It's the same at every race. You ask and it's the same thing. The answers haven't changed," he said. "I have a contract. You'll have to ask the team and see if they say something else, but I'm pretty sure they'll say the same."

If that isn't conformation, i don't know what is.

That sure is confirmation...of the fact that Ferrari have told Kimi not to say anything about anything until they want him to.  Everyone denies everything or avoids questions for weeks until the official announcement is made.

Edited by Cinco, 10 July 2009 - 02:02 PM.

[wapi]

Cinco, on 10 July 2009 - 02:02 PM, said:

That sure is confirmation...of the fact that Ferrari have told Kimi not to say anything about anything until they want him to.  Everyone denies everything or avoids questions for weeks until the official announcement is made.

Unless Kimi puts Ferrari in disresoect or performes significantly worse than Massa (not including technical failures) his contract is unbreakable unless he agrees. If he does not agree, SF would have to pay his full year salary at the moment of sacking. So unless LdM is extremely p**sed off they will not do it. Massa is managed by Todt, Todt is not in good standing with Ferrari any more so if anyone is to be sacked - Felipe is prime candidate. Kimi is WDC! Kimi is unlikely to complain that some other driver gets all the attention. He minds his own business. So he would coexist with Alonso easily.

[Rainmaster]

wapi, on 10 July 2009 - 03:25 PM, said:

Unless Kimi puts Ferrari in disresoect or performes significantly worse than Massa (not including technical failures) his contract is unbreakable unless he agrees. If he does not agree, SF would have to pay his full year salary at the moment of sacking. So unless LdM is extremely p**sed off they will not do it. Massa is managed by Todt, Todt is not in good standing with Ferrari any more so if anyone is to be sacked - Felipe is prime candidate. Kimi is WDC! Kimi is unlikely to complain that some other driver gets all the attention. He minds his own business. So he would coexist with Alonso easily.

I'm not sure about Massa being prime candidate, at least not on the basis of some disagreement between Todt/Ferrari. Massa does a solid job for Ferrari for a lot less money than Alonso or Kimi would demand. Massa is Ferrari's little project, they've been nurturing the guy for a while so I don't see why they would ever get rid of him now he's matured into a semi-competent racing driver, even if he didn't originally deserve that seat. Kimi is prime candidate for leaving because 1) he sure doesn't look that interested these days, off track and on track, 2) he is under-performing when compared with Massa in terms of salary. Despite the second issue, I'm sure that Ferrari and Kimi are pretty happy with the way things have gone and any 'split' would be an amiable one, mostly because Kimi fulfilled his ultimate duty which was to win a title with Ferrari post-Schumacher.  

I think Kimi would get on well with Alonso at Ferrari too, there has never really been any kind of disagreement between those two, there has always been some mutual respect there.

I think Kimi is ready to leave F1. He hardly seems like he's having that much fun lately, and it seems Ferrari are giving him a favour this year by letting him go Rallying, maybe that's all part of some deal. Maybe Santander is going to pay the remainder of KR's contract because they want Alonso that badly. Or maybe just getting Santander on board with the condition of having Alonso for 2010 was enough of a gain that Ferrari don't mind paying Kimi's contract out. Maybe KR's contract has all kinds of performance clauses in it which he isn't meeting. Who knows, at the end of the day, this is all just a load of speculative bollocks and Kimi will probaby see out his contract with Ferrari. Cheers.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Been away a little while, and just caught up on all the postings.... so in summary:

Max is a twat
Bernie is a twat
Hitler was a very bad man but his trains ran on time (oh no does that make me a bad man for complimenting his trains?)
FOTA are all twats
FIA is as bent as a bottle of chips
Lots of drivers may be changing teams/leaving - we all know where; but teams/drivers deny it even though we all know they will still happen...

So, business as usual then

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Oh and sorry to dredge up the "dictator" thing again, but...

What a stupid question: "who's your favourite dictator?"

Let's be honest there's not going to be a good answer to that one!!!


Reminds me of a joke. Man goes to a fancy dress party, rings the doorbell, host opens the door to see the man stood there stark, bollock naked with a hollowed out potato stuck on the end of his willy.

"What have you come as?" asks the host.

"A Dictator" he replied....

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

and I've told this one before but I'll do it again:

Man goes to a fancy-dress party with his girlfriend on his back, rings doorbell.

Host opens the door and asks: "What have you come as?"

Man replies: "A teenaged mutant ninja turtle... - this is Michelle"

[Insider]

As I said last week, I felt Bernie would come down on the side of the teams.  Everyone should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rumbles_on.html

[wapi]

Insider, on 11 July 2009 - 05:25 PM, said:

As I said last week, I felt Bernie would come down on the side of the teams.  Everyone should read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rumbles_on.html

I did not think it would go that fast (I thought FOTA would wait to get rid of Mosley and then take care of Bernie) but Bernie commited suicide by being stupid about HItler. NOw he is excluded from negotiations since he would be resigning soon.

[Insider]

wapi, on 11 July 2009 - 07:14 PM, said:

I did not think it would go that fast (I thought FOTA would wait to get rid of Mosley and then take care of Bernie) but Bernie commited suicide by being stupid about HItler. NOw he is excluded from negotiations since he would be resigning soon.

I doubt that. He's been busy registering trade marks through his Epsilon company in the last 48 hrs: GP1, Grand Prix Series, GP Series and others.  Think about it.

[Rainmaster]

It's all going to court.

Quote

N.Technology takes FIA to court

By Jonathan Noble Sunday, July 12th 2009, 11:58 GMT
The Italian MSC organisation, parent company of the N.Technology team, is taking the FIA to court in Paris over the new Formula 1 team selection process for 2010, AUTOSPORT has learned.

The N.Technology outfit had hoped to make it onto the grid next season but it withdrew its application in June after what it felt were 'irregularities' and uncertainties about the 2010 championship.

Those frustrations have now resulted in MSC applying to the Tribunal de Grande Instance in Paris last week for a legal hearing into the selection process for new teams. The team told AUTOSPORT that the judge accepted it had a valid case for a hearing, and the matter will now be heard on September 15.

MSC board member Angelo Codignoni, who is a former CEO of Eurosport, told AUTOSPORT: "We are doing this in the name of sport. From our point of view, the procedure for dealing with new entrants was not respected and there was not transparency about the process and preparations for the 2010 championship."

The MSC action follows claims that some of the rejected teams were unhappy about being told they needed to run Cosworth engines if their entry was going to be accepted.

AUTOSPORT understands that FOTA has also asked the FIA to clarify the team selection process, although team figures were keen not to get drawn into the controversy over the Nurburgring weekend.

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh said: "FOTA clearly doesn't have a vote on the selection process, so consequently it is not right to have a voice on it.

"We were not involved in the selection process. I think FOTA's position is that we are very happy to see new teams. It is healthy to see new teams in F1, and if FOTA can assist any team to make a successful start in F1 then we should be doing so."

Source

Good on them, I say.

[Cinco]

It's officially official: Bourdais has lost his ride.  Some kid who looks like he's wearing eyeliner in most pictures (and probably is, Red Bull's Junior Driving Team seems to be all confused, see Hartley's hairstyle) named Himay is taking over.  Good luck to him.  Probably a step up, but I'm not convinced he's quite ready for F1.  Then again, I wasn't convinced Buemi was, either, and while he hasn't done well, he hasn't been the worst of the worst like Bourds.  I think former CCWS rival Paul Tracy summed Bourdais' career up best:

PT said:

It's hard to have a good race from the gravel trap on the first lap.