54 replies to this topic

[monza gorilla]

Persevere, on 19 February 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

After so much babble - primarily from P.W. - about the U.S and their place in F1 and how they should be a presence and "...we'll have our factory in North Carolina", blah, blah, blah, it is an embarrassment. Peter Windsor needs to go away to a quiet dark place for a long time where no one will have to listen to him carry on about his vast knowledge of racing.

I suppose one saving grace for you guys over there is that Peter Windsock isn't American and so all can be blamed on the scurrilous Englishman with dreams of empire.

[Quiet One]

monza gorilla, on 19 February 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

I suppose one saving grace for you guys over there is that Peter Windsock isn't American and so all can be blamed on the scurrilous Englishman with dreams of empire.

The worst part will be when Mel Gibson decides to make a movie about all this.

[Schumikonen]

AleHop, on 18 February 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

I don't know what it means but one day I found this.

That was a good video, I just added that series to my Netfix queue and I will recieve it as soon as I finish watching The Yogi Bear dvd I have at home.

[HandyNZL]

JHS, on 19 February 2010 - 11:46 AM, said:

1. Fair point, but what about after 2010? They'd have to build their own car and I'm not convinced they'd be able to.
2. Hmm, unsold on that point too...
3. Okay, I'll let you have that one
4. Doubt it. Very late on now with only 1 more test after this week. Doubt they'd be ready for that.
5. I'll let you have that one too.
6. Hmm, somehow a Nakajima/Chandhok line-up fails to excite me too much.

When I was talking to Eric earlier he made a good point of Stefan GP being uncertain after 2010. Sure they may look good now, but without Toyota's help after this year, then what? They might crash and burn. What's the point of getting a grid full of 26 when a couple of the new teams may not even last the full season? Better to wait in my mind to find some creditable entries that know what they are doing and would probably last more than a year (e.g, Prodrive, Lola, V.W.).

Oh I fully agree with Lola or Prodrive. They should have been granted slots.

[Autumnpuma]

monza gorilla, on 19 February 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

I suppose one saving grace for you guys over there is that Peter Windsock isn't American and so all can be blamed on the scurrilous Englishman with dreams of empire.

That's just what I'm doing. Damned redcoats.

[HandyNZL]

I tell ya, those brits have a lot to answer for. Making me use their damn language without my prior consent too....shockers!

[HandyNZL]

Reports from NYC Times that USF1 is asking Toady Jean to let them miss the first four races so that they can secure sponsorship money.


....and so the saga continues....

[Schumikonen]

HandyNZL, on 20 February 2010 - 07:58 AM, said:

Reports from NYC Times that USF1 is asking Toady Jean to let them miss the first four races so that they can secure sponsorship money.


....and so the saga continues....

I am a fan of USF1 but I really think Stefan GP should be given their place on the grid and it should be done now, so they can test their car next week now we all now that USF1 is not going to be there for the fisrt four races and probably is not going to be there the whole season therefore I think the best move right now is to allow them to test with the rest of the teams next week, the later they take to make this desicion the worse it is going to be for everybody.

[Sato]

For some reason I have this gut feeling USF1 will make it onto the grid without missing more than 3 GPs and be the best of the new teams.... I really don't know why, when everything points the other way... Hell I don't even want it to be true, I'm not a fan of the US and I'd like Virgin to be the best of the new teams...

[aussief1]

Freakazoid, on 20 February 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

I am a fan of USF1 but I really think Stefan GP should be given their place on the grid and it should be done now, so they can test their car next week now we all now that USF1 is not going to be there for the fisrt four races and probably is not going to be there the whole season therefore I think the best move right now is to allow them to test with the rest of the teams next week, the later they take to make this desicion the worse it is going to be for everybody.

I'm not a fan of USF1, but I agree with the remainder of your post.

USF1 had us believe they were the best placed of the new teams, now they need special conditions before the season even starts. With this being the case how can the FIA be assured that they will see out the season, let alone show any sort of speed. The FIA should give the place to Stefan GP and let the commitment they have shown be rewarded.

Not many people would buy a complete team and recruit people without the place entry to the World Championship. USF1 have not showed a tenth of that sort of commitment and nous. Even they had the same opportunity to purchase the Intellectual rights from Toyota.

[JHS]

Persevere, on 19 February 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

After so much babble - primarily from P.W. - about the U.S and their place in F1 and how they should be a presence and "...we'll have our factory in North Carolina", blah, blah, blah, it is an embarrassment. Peter Windsor needs to go away to a quiet dark place for a long time where no one will have to listen to him carry on about his vast knowledge of racing.

Don't worry, you'll have the last laugh. Wait till he tries to set up GB F1!

[teddydub]

Persevere, on 19 February 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

After so much babble - primarily from P.W. - about the U.S and their place in F1 and how they should be a presence and "...we'll have our factory in North Carolina", blah, blah, blah, it is an embarrassment. Peter Windsor needs to go away to a quiet dark place for a long time where no one will have to listen to him carry on about his vast knowledge of racing.

Totally agree.
You gotta agree though it must have been hilarious for the american businesses/men they visited to try and sell their project...
Imagine the scene : an english guy going in the boardrooms and telling them : "this is what you need, an F1 team, and I the englishman will do it in your name 'cause you can't seem historically to get your act together on the best racing series in the world and you can learn from me and take it over in a few years". Hahaha. Pathetic really.

[Quiet One]

As day and rumours pass, I am still undediced on how bad is USF1 or how good is StefanGP as pure ideas.

You know, we always like to bemoan something. In the old days, it was the infinite number of joke teams. Then it was manufacturers. Then it was the lack of privateers. Well, we can't have it all.

Privateer teams mean less money, less money means more turbulence, more turbulence means less stability. Simple as that.

On the other hand, the new "privateer teams" are not exactly a bunch of F1 enthusiasts joining forces to start a team. They are mostly fronts of fund investment groups. These kind of groups have as much interest in F1 as they have on Haiti victims, namely: what's the ROE? As such, I can't but see them as smaller, less commited versions of the manufacturers.

USF1 was an act of pure arrogance and guts. And failed miserably. But at least it WAS an act that came mainly from a bunch of F1 enthusiasts.

So, purely from an idealistic point of view, I'd rather watch a million USF1 fail if every once in a while a team like Williams, or McLaren, or Ferrari appears than a group of investment groups that succeed until they find out that funding lollipop factories, or Iran's nuclear plans is better.

Then there's the practical side of all this, but I got tired of typing right here...

[Jean Todt]

Quiet One, on 22 February 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

As day and rumours pass, I am still undediced on how bad is USF1 or how good is StefanGP as pure ideas.

You know, we always like to bemoan something. In the old days, it was the infinite number of joke teams. Then it was manufacturers. Then it was the lack of privateers. Well, we can't have it all.

Privateer teams mean less money, less money means more turbulence, more turbulence means less stability. Simple as that.

On the other hand, the new "privateer teams" are not exactly a bunch of F1 enthusiasts joining forces to start a team. They are mostly fronts of fund investment groups. These kind of groups have as much interest in F1 as they have on Haiti victims, namely: what's the ROE? As such, I can't but see them as smaller, less commited versions of the manufacturers.

USF1 was an act of pure arrogance and guts. And failed miserably. But at least it WAS an act that came mainly from a bunch of F1 enthusiasts.

So, purely from an idealistic point of view, I'd rather watch a million USF1 fail if every once in a while a team like Williams, or McLaren, or Ferrari appears than a group of investment groups that succeed until they find out that funding lollipop factories, or Iran's nuclear plans is better.

Then there's the practical side of all this, but I got tired of typing right here...

Andres....

[JHS]

Stefan don't seem to be in any better shape now seeing as they have no '10 spec tires. I guess that is sort of crucial.....

[Sato]

I imagine the tyre supply contract comes along with an entry to the championship, so if they got that it'd be fine.

[Rainmaster]

Quiet One, on 22 February 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:

As day and rumours pass, I am still undediced on how bad is USF1 or how good is StefanGP as pure ideas.

You know, we always like to bemoan something. In the old days, it was the infinite number of joke teams. Then it was manufacturers. Then it was the lack of privateers. Well, we can't have it all.

Privateer teams mean less money, less money means more turbulence, more turbulence means less stability. Simple as that.

On the other hand, the new "privateer teams" are not exactly a bunch of F1 enthusiasts joining forces to start a team. They are mostly fronts of fund investment groups. These kind of groups have as much interest in F1 as they have on Haiti victims, namely: what's the ROE? As such, I can't but see them as smaller, less commited versions of the manufacturers.

USF1 was an act of pure arrogance and guts. And failed miserably. But at least it WAS an act that came mainly from a bunch of F1 enthusiasts.

So, purely from an idealistic point of view, I'd rather watch a million USF1 fail if every once in a while a team like Williams, or McLaren, or Ferrari appears than a group of investment groups that succeed until they find out that funding lollipop factories, or Iran's nuclear plans is better.

Then there's the practical side of all this, but I got tired of typing right here...

Yep, good (half) post.

[medilloni]

Interesting article about USF1 and Chad Hurley in Autosport......
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/81664

Every story has a human side that we, the great unwashed armchair experts, tend to forget - it's an interesting read.


Despite the (apparent) stupid things we hear from/about Ken Anderson and *Windsor, every birth of an F1 team has a heart of gold, a terrific excitement and determination in the people involved in the start-up; those that trusted, and went to work there... and something that's heartbreaking for them and their families in times like these.  

The clock is ticking, but F1 would be a better place with the fresh approach/attitude/joi de thingy, that I believe a US team would bring, imo.  



*Windsor - a dreamer, not capable of ever running an F1 team, but, I really hope the spark that the complete knob lit has a future........

[Quiet One]

medilloni, on 23 February 2010 - 10:34 PM, said:

Interesting article about USF1 and Chad Hurley in Autosport......
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/81664

Every story has a human side that we, the great unwashed armchair experts, tend to forget - it's an interesting read.


Despite the (apparent) stupid things we hear from/about Ken Anderson and *Windsor, every birth of an F1 team has a heart of gold, a terrific excitement and determination in the people involved in the start-up; those that trusted, and went to work there... and something that's heartbreaking for them and their families in times like these.  

The clock is ticking, but F1 would be a better place with the fresh approach/attitude/joi de thingy, that I believe a US team would bring, imo.  



*Windsor - a dreamer, not capable of ever running an F1 team, but, I really hope the spark that the complete knob lit has a future........

Amen to that!

[Jean Todt]

medilloni, on 23 February 2010 - 10:34 PM, said:

Interesting article about USF1 and Chad Hurley in Autosport......
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/81664

Every story has a human side that we, the great unwashed armchair experts, tend to forget - it's an interesting read.


Despite the (apparent) stupid things we hear from/about Ken Anderson and *Windsor, every birth of an F1 team has a heart of gold, a terrific excitement and determination in the people involved in the start-up; those that trusted, and went to work there... and something that's heartbreaking for them and their families in times like these.

The clock is ticking, but F1 would be a better place with the fresh approach/attitude/joi de thingy, that I believe a US team would bring, imo.



*Windsor - a dreamer, not capable of ever running an F1 team, but, I really hope the spark that the complete knob lit has a future........

[JHS]

I'll stick to what I said before-what is the point in forcing this teams that clearly arn't ready onto the grid? Sure, eventually US F1 and Campos MAY make it, but surely, with no pre-season testing and uncertainty over their future in the past few months, they'll be miles of the pace. Wait till 2011 when we might have some more creditable teams who can pull it off. I mean, tough break for the likes of JML etc, but really it's the FIA's fault more than anything for letting these no-hopers in! I just hope in the future, Todt won't repeat the mistake Mosley made with this.

Edited by JHS, 24 February 2010 - 08:07 AM.

[Jean Todt]

JHS, on 24 February 2010 - 08:07 AM, said:

I'll stick to what I said before-what is the point in forcing this teams that clearly arn't ready onto the grid? Sure, eventually US F1 and Campos MAY make it, but surely, with no pre-season testing and uncertainty over their future in the past few months, they'll be miles of the pace. Wait till 2011 when we might have some more creditable teams who can pull it off. I mean, tough break for the likes of JML etc, but really it's the FIA's fault more than anything for letting these no-hopers in! I just hope in the future, Todt won't repeat the mistake Mosley made with this.

Hmm...I get you, completely agree with you....even Eric and George's Raindrive Promaster had better prospects to make it to Bahrain than those two. Funny thing is that, Campos had all the help from FIA..... and for that one reason I hope they wont make it...(but the other side of me says that I am rude and I am not thinking about those people involved behind the scenes...I mean people like Mechanics/technicians who thought their F1 dreams were about to come true)

USF1.....they just tried, 'If you can't make it, fake it!' act by lying to their employees about the funds...atleast for the sake of people who felt betrayed I would like to see they make it....well...I do belive 2010 was too fast for them, they should have waited till 2011...whats the use of competing in F1 with a car that may be only as fast as a GP2 car. Well thats just my opinion...

[Persevere]

medilloni, on 23 February 2010 - 10:34 PM, said:

Interesting article about USF1 and Chad Hurley in Autosport......
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/81664

Every story has a human side that we, the great unwashed armchair experts, tend to forget - it's an interesting read...

You're right:  a good read.  In the midst of this is an interesting exchange:


"In a meeting between the employees, Windsor and Anderson, Windsor put the question up to the employees: 'Who here doesn't think we'll make Bahrain?' I think Windsor might have meant it somewhat rhetorically, but he was answered nonetheless, and 100 per cent of the staff raised their hands. He was visibly shocked."
When contacted about the claims from the senior staff member, team principal Anderson declined to respond to the specifics - but did suggest the comments painted a biased picture of the situation at the team.  "The story that the employee tells is certainly twisted and one-sided," said Anderson. "There are also contradictions. Everybody that signed up here knew exactly what they were getting into, i.e. to have two cars on the track in Bahrain..."


I suppose somewhere in that mix of conflicting opinions is the truth.  Still, it suggests team principals out of touch with their employees.  

I know, I know, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, and 11th hour funds could fall into place for the team but I'm not holding my breath (for fear of passing out).

Edited by Persevere, 24 February 2010 - 12:42 PM.

[JHS]

Persevere, on 24 February 2010 - 12:40 PM, said:

"In a meeting between the employees, Windsor and Anderson, Windsor put the question up to the employees: 'Who here doesn't think we'll make Bahrain?' I think Windsor might have meant it somewhat rhetorically, but he was answered nonetheless, and 100 per cent of the staff raised their hands. He was visibly shocked."
When contacted about the claims from the senior staff member, team principal Anderson declined to respond to the specifics - but did suggest the comments painted a biased picture of the situation at the team. "The story that the employee tells is certainly twisted and one-sided," said Anderson. "There are also contradictions. Everybody that signed up here knew exactly what they were getting into, i.e. to have two cars on the track in Bahrain..."

Lol! Too funny. Nice to know not everybody is delluded in the world of US F1 then...

[Pucky the Whale]

It's time for US F1 to die. And for Stefan to not replace them. And for Campos to go away, too.

Virgin and Lotus were "well-qualified" and the former can't do 8 laps of testing without something going horribly wrong. I don't want to see these other guys. GP2 and IndyCar beckon.