1007 replies to this topic

[Pucky the Whale]

I'll admit it.

I watch NASCAR.

If you don't tell yourself it's legitimate professional racing, then you can just watch it as entertainment (it's like watching Top Gear and saying it's not completely scripted and the same old same old over and over again and it's fun for a laugh).

I really enjoyed the last race of Sprint Cup; so few safety cars and a great run to the finish. Clever, clever stuff by Jimmie Johnson...as clever as you can be in a 3,800-lb beached version of Pucky the Whale with wheels...he knew Kevin Harvick couldn't run on the inside line, so he gave him just enough room on the high side to tempt Harvick into trying a pass for the lead with two laps left and Harvick scraped the barriers. Brilliant move by JJ; he's a four-time champ for good reason.

In Nationwide, it was a struggle for Danica, but don't judge just yet. Will she ever be good? Doubt it, but Fontana is such a hard track to learn. Montoya, Franchitti...they all sucked in their first start at that track, too. Give her some time before you write her off. She has a lot of work to do, but they all did. JPM absolutely sucked when he came over...so did Speed and Allmendinger. Speed's having a great start to the season, Allmendinger's become legitimate, and JPM could make a title run this year. I think that, after two seasons of part-time in Nationwide, as she is doing, she can be a solid competitor in the series. Sprint Cup? She'll never make it.

Speaking of Nationwide, seen the new COTs? If you're going to do stock cars, do them right...over the top! Check out the Challenger: http://jayski.com/sc...nwide/dodge.htm As a muscle car hater, I do love that car. A stock car should look like that, or this (Grand-Am car): http://motorsport.co...24h-cg-0131.jpg

Old news, but...so glad Jamie McMurray won at Dayton B. What a likeable guy. Nice guys do finish first and it's damn good to see that!

Okay, so NASCAR doesn't do it for you?

Fine. There's always IndyCar.

http://www.flickr.co...ogy/4385924264/

Look at that. John Player Special. Why? Lotus are entering the Indy 500 with James Rossiter this year. The ultimate plan? Supply chassis to IndyCar by 2012-ish.

Not an IRL fan? ALMS tested in Sebring. If you go to americanlemans.com, you'll see the results for all four sessions. Small turn out, but should be a good season.

No ALMS? Well, SCCA World Challenge, the US' touring car championship, will be on US TV on VERSUS this year. I plan to try one of the races out.

[mikathegreat2]

Hi Eric!

[Jean Todt]

Pucky pucky....come and get your guppy!

[Pucky the Whale]

mikathegreat2, on 25 February 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

Hi Eric!

Hello Daniel.

[Pucky the Whale]

The most aesthetically pleasing car in all of the United States? It's close.

http://motorsport.co...swt-eg-0001.jpg

[Jean Todt]

Pucky the Whale, on 26 February 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

The most aesthetically pleasing car in all of the United States? It's close.

http://motorsport.co...swt-eg-0001.jpg

And it had to be an Italian....

[Persevere]

Pucky the Whale, on 26 February 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

The most aesthetically pleasing car in all of the United States? It's close.

http://motorsport.co...swt-eg-0001.jpg

I'll always be a sucker for all things Italian and beautiful.  

(Good to see you back in the fold, you old hockey puck.)

[mikathegreat2]

Pucky the Whale, on 26 February 2010 - 02:04 AM, said:

The most aesthetically pleasing car in all of the United States? It's close.

http://motorsport.co...swt-eg-0001.jpg

OMGEXTREMESPEEDMOTORSPORTSFERRARIF430GT2!!!

[JHS]

As much as I like to knock it tongue-in-cheek, I have to admit, some of the racing I've seen in America before ahs been very good, sometimes better than anything us Europeans have to offer. I guess any other racing series could only dream of getting as much interest and publicity as NASCAR does in America. But, being a European and having only watched series based in Europe until recently, I guess the next bit is somewhat inevitable. Whilst I can watch one or two oval races and enjoy the often closeness at the end, I still would much rather prefer to watch cars go around a non-oval track, such as Silverstone, Spa, Monza, etc.

[Pucky the Whale]

JHS, on 27 February 2010 - 05:00 PM, said:

As much as I like to knock it tongue-in-cheek, I have to admit, some of the racing I've seen in America before ahs been very good, sometimes better than anything us Europeans have to offer. I guess any other racing series could only dream of getting as much interest and publicity as NASCAR does in America. But, being a European and having only watched series based in Europe until recently, I guess the next bit is somewhat inevitable. Whilst I can watch one or two oval races and enjoy the often closeness at the end, I still would much rather prefer to watch cars go around a non-oval track, such as Silverstone, Spa, Monza, etc.

In the Americas, though, Interlagos, Road America, Mont-Tremblant, Road Atlanta, etc are right up there with Europe's finest. There are good tracks and bad tracks in every nation and in every series.

So, some stuff on U.S. racing:

1. I forgot to care that the IndyCar season started.

2. I'm sick of the comparisons of Simona to Danica. Why don't we just compare all drivers to every driver and not just the women to the women? They're in the same series for a reason.

3. I'm sick of the racism in NASCAR. Víctor Gónzalez, Jr. and Nelson Piquet, Jr. (see? they're perfect for NASCAR because they're both Junior) have both been judged prior to their debut races and criticized for replacing good ol' boys. Hate to say it, but Piquet came in to his first (and only) NASCAR Truck race and got a top ten. Gónzalez? He's actually a nice guy from what I hear and has a higher average finish in the car than the guy he replaced (admittedly, both have pretty low average finishes). I've found myself supporting both because I want them to prove the inbreds wrong.

4. ALMS needs more cars. I'm tempted to say World Le Mans needs to happen. I was originally against it as we'd lose a lot of the U.S. prototype teams, but...there really aren't any left to lose.

5. I like a lot of the new IndyCar designs, but I wonder if there's a place for formula car racing in the U.S. I'm going to say "no." American open wheel should be Supermodifieds:
http://image24.websh...09rVFciL_ph.jpg
http://image09.websh...72pymIKV_ph.jpg

850 horsepower for something like 1300 lbs. They can't race on tracks over 1 mile because they'd go too fast. Every car looks different and they're just massively impressive. An all-oval series with cars like those would lack international appeal, but I doubt it would lack money like IndyCar does. Supermodifieds are everything an all-American racing car should be.

6. Shane Hmiel is aiming for IndyCar...my thoughts here.

7. Kyle Busch has to drive a formula car before he's too old. Just test one. Please. Watch the orange car work its way around to win after being black-flagged and sent to the back of the field late in the race (first 1:35 or so in the video).

http://www.nascar.co...nallaps.nascar/

Not impressed? Consider Phoenix is a tight, 1 mile oval with no banking and a strange kink on the back stretch. It's a braking and shifting kind of oval and passing is difficult, especially on the outside. It wasn't designed for overtaking unlike many others. Would it be realistic to say Busch could go to F1 and do well? About as realistic as it was for Montoya or Speed to go right to NASCAR where they both failed initially (one's still failing, but Montoya's gotten it together after three years). Do I think Busch should go to the RoC for the U.S.? Yes. And do I think Busch would turn a lot of heads in a junior formula car? Yes. He's probably the most naturally gifted racer in the United States right now. He just needs to learn how to not let his emotions cause him to screw up so much.

8. My favorite team in U.S. Racing? Extenze Male Enhancement Racing Team with Kevin Conway.

[Pucky the Whale]

http://www.indianapo...t_4_21_2010.pdf

Filling in the gaps...I imagine the 17 will be for Graham Rahal and the 27 for J.R. Hildebrand. Not sure about the other TBAs; hopefully one's for Servià.

[Pucky the Whale]

IndyCar announced an "all-inclusive" engine formula for 2012 and beyond. By all-inclusive they mean anything from 1 to 6 cylinders, V or inline, maximum 2.4L. These rules would enable the Global Racing Engine to be utilized and are intended to open the world of Indy-style racing to the marine and aerospace industries in addition to the automotive one. Details on fuel source are still to be determined. All engines will be turbocharged. They released 500-700 as the horsepower amount; most likely, a value around 500 will be used on ovals, and a value around 700 will be used on road courses. These regulations make the utilization of the Delta Wing chassis highly improbable, as the Delta Wing required just 300 hp to turn 230 mph laps at Indianapolis and competitive times at Long Beach. A 500 or 700 hp Delta Wing would, then, be ridiculously unsafe, and would not be consistent with any other vehicles.

It's the right idea, of course, but no engine supplier has any interest in the sport beyond Honda. They could, of course, have innovation in the sport and particularly at Indianapolis again, but the struggle to obtain fans really makes it hard to foresee many changes for years to come. Multiple chassis and engines in 2012 would, of course, help the sport greatly in terms of competition, and increased competition would lead to more fans, which would lead to more sponsors, which would lead to more competition and more "big name" drivers (an aspect of the sport the U.S. American general public is heavily concerned with), which would continue to lead to more fans and so on and so forth.

Less-funded teams could also stay afloat and competitive with the GRE option, or a variation of the Mazda/Judd ALMS motor which is speculated to be in development for IndyCar use.

Unfortunately, it's all too good to be true. 2010 and 2011 should all but kill off the dying sport, meaning that even with open regulations, just Honda will compete with their E98 Ethanol V6 turbo. The teams will be on the verge of collapse, meaning they'll likely stick with a spec chassis to keep costs down, and the open rules will be negated by the reality of the circumstances surrounding a sport that's seen too much.

I applaud Randy Bernard for bringing in legitimate racing people to make sporting decisions while he takes care of marketing. I do see massive improvement in both categories, with ICONIC making the more open engine regulations, and Bernard has been able to acquire many new partners (i.e. IZOD, Sunoco, etc) for the sport in addition to throwing out some new promotional ideas (i.e. the proposed $20,000,000 for any driver to win the Indy 500 and Coca-Cola 600 NASCAR race in the same day or $2,000,000 for the driver with the best average finish in the two events in the event no one can win both that would take effect in 2011 if Bruton Smith agrees to split the cost and Mari Hulman-George signs off on it; crowning oval and road course champions in addition to an overall champion to make the final three races of the season championship finales, etc).

I don't think it will come instantly, but for the first time in a while, there might just be some hope in top-level North American open wheel racing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALMS is awesome. While the NFL/Intersport films production of the Laguna Seca docu-drama on CBS was a bit much (I would have preferred watching the actual race, as it was a great event), it is the right idea to get key races on a heavily-viewed channel in a format that may not appeal to general racing fans but would please Joe Television. American Le Mans has a lot of potential, featuring some brilliant races as it is, and a few more competitors would really enhance the sport. Unfortunately, money is needed to get to that point, and money will only come with an increase in popularity. Hopefully, ALMS will continue to be marketed.

I do believe that the sport, as a technological and environmental leader among racing disciplines, does attract fans who do not typically partake in motor racing-viewing, and could further appeal to more spectators of that variety. Buying a timeslot to show technology-centric ALMS programming on a channel such as Discovery could help grow the sport. The Acura program that formerly aired on SPEED was very insightful to the development of an LMP; unfortunately, it was marketed to people already watching the sport when it could have been shown on a more science-y network to appeal to new fans.

Fortunately, though, the sport is still showcasing proper racing even without a plethora of vehicles, and it will be a lot of fun to see the remainder of the season with the Highcroft Acura facing challenges at tracks like Road America from the powerful Intersport Lola-AER and tighter circuits from the Dyson Lola-Mazda.

One wonders if the aforementioned IndyCar regulations were based on the success of American Le Mans, as Long Beach featured a duel between V8 and V12, and Laguna Seca one between I4 and V8.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In NASCAR land, don't be surprised to see Mattias Ekström and Rick Kelly of the touring car world step into the 83 Red Bull Toyota vacated by Brian Vickers for medical reasons (blood clots, which recent research suggests are very much associated with consuming energy drinks such as Red Bull) for the road courses. While Casey Mears has secured the ride for the ovals, Red Bull tested Ekström at VIR, and the Swedish NASCAR fan is available to race at the upcoming Infineon event as it falls on a DTM off-weekend. Aussie Rick Kelly, due to his Red Bull connection, has been rumored to drive the car at Watkins Glen during the V8 Supercars' off-season, a race in which he'd square off against former V8 competitor Marcos Ambrose.

On the subject of road course ringers, sports car racer and former F1 pilot Jan Magnussen has been confirmed to make his NASCAR Sprint Cup debut at Infineon, driving for the struggling Phoenix Racing organization. In the second-tier Nationwide Series, Víctor Gonzalez, Jr. is expected to compete at Road America in the 05 Day Enterprises machine with fellow international racer Ruben Rovelo of Mexico in the 86 for Chivas Racing. Rovelo will also compete at Montréal in the 86, but will not participate in the Watkins Glen event, as Brazilian touring car racer Marcos Gomes will make his NASCAR debut at the New York track.

Two current converts, Nelson Piquet, Jr. and Narain Karthikeyan, had solid runs in the Camping World Truck Series last night. Piquet placed eighth in an attrition-filled race, his second top ten in the series, with Karthikeyan one lap back in eleventh.

[Persevere]

Eric - As is often the case, your detailed and informative updates are much appreciated, not the least by out-of-touch, overworked old codgers... not that I know of any personally.

[Pucky the Whale]

200-mile race at Daytona...how many times do you think the word "Danica" was uttered by the commentators? Nearly once every two miles (Daytona is, of course, 2.5 miles in length, unlike Dayton B, which is 300 miles in length in the Formula 1 configuration...so over once per lap). To be precise, 99 times in one broadcast. Big time credit to "BaltoRacing" for putting this sucker together (and for having a nice archive of older NASCAR races from my youth...ahh, the simple times, when the races were still scripted...I just didn't know it ).

http://www.youtube.c...8fEt-k#t=00m10s

The video will jump to 00:10 in at the start; I did that as a service to you as there's an intro before the real video. Though I'd venture to guess you'd find the intro less annoying than "Danica" 99 times.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Riley, a leading chassis supplier in Grand-Am, are looking toward LMP2 for 2011 according to Marshall Pruett who I steal most of my racing knowledge and Danica videos from. Well, I gave you the link, read what I read there!

I think it's fantastic for LMP2 to go to a cost-effective formula. Grand-Am have benefited from multiple suppliers, and many of them could easily transition over to ALMS to help become part of a growing and exciting series. It's a good time to be sports car racing, I'd say. It's not the most popular racing, but it's one of the few disciplines with any relevance.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Also from the Pruett article....a new BP-free livery for Dyson. I love it.

http://dlstatic.spee...Lb/1323x882.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------

Last tidbit I'll swipe from Pruett...

Quote

One of the better ALMS teams has been hard at work to secure diesel prototypes for their 2011 ALMS campaign.

The link directs to a picture of the Audi R15, which will conveniently be available. Highcroft? Cytosport? Drayson? He just says ALMS, though...maybe an LMPC or GT team looking to move up? I could see Level 5 Motorsport move from LMPC, you know. They're well-funded there and in Grand-Am, team owner Scott Tucker tasted an Audi with the Kolles R10, and Lucas Luhr, an Audi driver, drove for Tucker at the Rolex 24...

Who knows, but I love this news. Watching the P2s take on the R15 at Long Beach (and throw the Aston in, too) would be thrilling stuff. The tighter tracks of ALMS can really eliminate diesel dominance, so I'd love to see it.

-----------------------------------------------------------



Two things I found amusing in that: the car suddenly becomes uglier when the IRL becomes the main league. (The prettiest, of course, is the Lotus 56).

Also, I love the italics at the bottom..."Please RSVP by being invited."

[Pucky the Whale]

I'd like to send my condolences to the family, friends, fans, associates, etc of Mark Niver, who passed away in NHRA competition yesterday.

--------------------------------------------------

Sensitive as it is, I am now going to rant about it. I mean no disrespect.

When is a sanctioning body of motor racing going to get their crap together and make safety decisions PROACTIVELY?! Here we are, every year, we lose drivers. And the sanctioning bodies react to it, they wait for tragedy to respond. They never try to prevent it; they just try to prevent it again.

Why?

F1, NASCAR, CART...all of them needed major fatalities to happen before they took action. Even minor incidents still trigger every safety change they make; F1 doesn't give the drivers' heads more protection until after Wurz and Coulthard crash in Melbourne and a need for it is seen.

Why is it that everyone in charge of racing series are just so daft that they won't just make the cars and the tracks as safe as possible before the incidents?

Why do we need something to actually fail before we realize that it actually can fail?

Who runs these series?

Two fatalities in one year, and another just a few years back! Come on! The NHRA's just losing credibility each and every day.

It's disgusting. So disgusting. This doesn't need to be happening in modern-day motorsport, not at all.

Seeing the sport once again become more than just a sport only speeds up the process of me not watching auto racing anymore. I've left many series over a lack of interest, and now I leave the NHRA over a lack of safety. Soon, I wonder, if I'll just be watching the "stick and ball" sports and nothing more...

[HandyNZL]

Don't know anything of the incident of what you write above, Pucky Wucky, but I was aghast at how the so called safety crews acted after de Silvestro's crash in the Indy race recently. The way they just pulled and wrenched and dragged her out was pathetic, so too their so called fire truck. For a country so libel conscious it amazes me how much they leave themselves open to.

I think with drag racing, the safety standards must be hard to apply with so many cars built by amateurs. Yes, the standards must be set from above, and no doubt they are, but it's the steward at the race track that has to implement them, and I would think that only a few nationally have any engineering back ground at all and even know what they are looking at.

We have a log book from SCCA for one of the Lola's and one of the entries from the safety steward says "needs a polish"....ok..so it was in the early '80's, but still....

As for Indy...for a car that is so old now, that it is somewhat reasonably safe is actually not too bad. Take 'em away from highspeed concrete bowls and your fatalities will reduce, but you yanks don't like circuit racing for some reason....heck y'all do solo racing around carparks....

The new Indy car will invariably have better crash structures etc etc built in as technology has moved on since the cars of today were made.

F1 however, I think, has been quite proactive in safety. Every year there is yet another "safety" measure, and the crash structures get more and more reinforced. Webber's little flight recently just goes to underline the measures that F1 has taken.

However, if you do wrap motorsport up in cotton wool, then you might as well just cancel it all. The speed, the danger, the noise, the smell - it's what it is. For the speeds attained, for the crashes that happen, motorsport is by far safer than driving your own car down to the corner store.

[Pucky the Whale]

The Indy thing with de Silvestro was sickening because they didn't have reactive safety measures...the redneck running the thing just swept it under the rug and pretended it didn't happen, defending his "highly trained" professionals.

I think I'm just finding out motor racing isn't my thing anymore. Which makes this forum kind of hard for me

[HandyNZL]

Well you can always hang around and be the village cynic

[Pucky the Whale]

HandyNZL, on 13 July 2010 - 01:24 AM, said:

Well you can always hang around and be the village cynic

How can one by cynical when things like this marmot eating a graham cracker exist?!

Besides, cynics are usually clever.

[HandyNZL]

Or incredibly stoopid....

[Pucky the Whale]

While the IRL tried to steal the spotlight and unveil their 2012 car, NASCAR also announced their latest COT, scheduled for 2011...




Okay, maybe not, but the first image seems to give something of a hint as to what the next generation Chevrolet Impala will look like (an elongated Volt).

[HandyNZL]

I'm sure i've seen those somewhere before...but....can't....quite....put....my....finger....on....it....

[Autumnpuma]

Pucky the Whale, on 12 July 2010 - 04:33 PM, said:

I'd like to send my condolences to the family, friends, fans, associates, etc of Mark Niver, who passed away in NHRA competition yesterday.

--------------------------------------------------

Sensitive as it is, I am now going to rant about it. I mean no disrespect.

When is a sanctioning body of motor racing going to get their crap together and make safety decisions PROACTIVELY?! Here we are, every year, we lose drivers. And the sanctioning bodies react to it, they wait for tragedy to respond. They never try to prevent it; they just try to prevent it again.

Why?

F1, NASCAR, CART...all of them needed major fatalities to happen before they took action. Even minor incidents still trigger every safety change they make; F1 doesn't give the drivers' heads more protection until after Wurz and Coulthard crash in Melbourne and a need for it is seen.

Why is it that everyone in charge of racing series are just so daft that they won't just make the cars and the tracks as safe as possible before the incidents?

Why do we need something to actually fail before we realize that it actually can fail?

Who runs these series?

Two fatalities in one year, and another just a few years back! Come on! The NHRA's just losing credibility each and every day.

It's disgusting. So disgusting. This doesn't need to be happening in modern-day motorsport, not at all.

Seeing the sport once again become more than just a sport only speeds up the process of me not watching auto racing anymore. I've left many series over a lack of interest, and now I leave the NHRA over a lack of safety. Soon, I wonder, if I'll just be watching the "stick and ball" sports and nothing more...

HandyNZL, on 12 July 2010 - 08:59 PM, said:

Don't know anything of the incident of what you write above, Pucky Wucky, but I was aghast at how the so called safety crews acted after de Silvestro's crash in the Indy race recently. The way they just pulled and wrenched and dragged her out was pathetic, so too their so called fire truck. For a country so libel conscious it amazes me how much they leave themselves open to.

I think with drag racing, the safety standards must be hard to apply with so many cars built by amateurs. Yes, the standards must be set from above, and no doubt they are, but it's the steward at the race track that has to implement them, and I would think that only a few nationally have any engineering back ground at all and even know what they are looking at.

We have a log book from SCCA for one of the Lola's and one of the entries from the safety steward says "needs a polish"....ok..so it was in the early '80's, but still....

As for Indy...for a car that is so old now, that it is somewhat reasonably safe is actually not too bad. Take 'em away from highspeed concrete bowls and your fatalities will reduce, but you yanks don't like circuit racing for some reason....heck y'all do solo racing around carparks....

The new Indy car will invariably have better crash structures etc etc built in as technology has moved on since the cars of today were made.

F1 however, I think, has been quite proactive in safety. Every year there is yet another "safety" measure, and the crash structures get more and more reinforced. Webber's little flight recently just goes to underline the measures that F1 has taken.

However, if you do wrap motorsport up in cotton wool, then you might as well just cancel it all. The speed, the danger, the noise, the smell - it's what it is. For the speeds attained, for the crashes that happen, motorsport is by far safer than driving your own car down to the corner store.

I'm disappointed in you two (mostly at pucky the great white whale thingy more than the kiwi...your last sentence saves you). There is nothing inherently safe about auto racing. There is no way to make it 100% safe....and if there was, I wouldn't want it done. The magic is in the danger. Courage is the greatest inspiration and spectacle in life...and you can't have courage without danger.

And Handy isn't quite so handy when it comes to knowing the U.S.  You do yourself a disservice by basing your view of a country solely on magazine articles and the opinions of university professors and politicians. Those three are never to be trusted. With time, hopefully, you'll find that out.

Edited by Autumnpuma, 15 July 2010 - 09:34 AM.

[JHS]

So, this has been bugging me for most the day. I thought I'd post my thoughts here and see what bites.

I saw a clip today of the Nationwide race that I believe happened just the other day. Basically, what happens is Carl Edwards wrecks Brad Keselowski intentionally on the line, before Brad's car is hit several times broadside and at a fast speed.

What really boiled my blood though, was Edwards and his team's reaction, celebrating, clapping, cheering, yelling "good job" over the radio.

Good job?!

There's just been possibly one of the worst types of incidents you can get in motor racing, a car being hit broadside. How the f*ck is that a good job? Thankfully, Keselowski was okay, but how would they have felt if he'd been injured or even worse?

My next question. How is NASCAR, such a joke of a series, able to survive? It's biased as f*ck and it's more dangerous than any other series I'd say, seeing as you've got some complete tools, racing around in 200mph cars with no disregard for each other's safety when they should never be allowed anywhere near a race car in the first place.

Now let me say, the things I know about NASCAR and oval racing on general could be written on a sticky note so feel free to correct me on anything. Yet, as an "outsider" so to speak, this series doesn't look good. At all.

Edited by JHS, 18 July 2010 - 05:53 PM.

[JHS]

Okay, so this is a bit late, but I've been on holiday for the past couple of the days and read about the race in the recent AUTOSPORT, when Helio was DSQed from the race. I have to say, what a terrible series and a joke of a rule. Effectively, Indycar with the rules about "blocking"  are manufacturing overtaking. It's really, really bad and has quite annoyed me in a way. It does nothing to do anything to make the series more popular or successful, which they need to achieve as they still struggle to manage the transition into just one open wheel championship. "Blocking" and "Defending your position" are two completely different things. Blocking is one car putting another in a very dangerous situation, nearly running the other guy clean off the road, like we saw with Barrichello/Schumacher at Hungary. That shouldn't be allowed and yes, should indeed be penalised very hard. But, defending your position is completely different, it's putting a race on for what the crowd pay to go and see at the end of the day. I don't care if there isn't too much overtaking, but if there is a raging battle up the front where one guy is defending and the other guy is looking to attack, that's good, that's exciting, that's what we LIKE to see. Lots of overtaking that has been purposely manufacturered to get ailing TV figures up is NOT what anybody wants to see. It's just....bad. Okay, so for the casual fans, they may like it, but even then, I bet they can see through it and see what it really is. Fake racing. I feel bad for Helio and can understand his frustrations, but what I don't condone is how he confronted officials after the race. That just sets a bad example to younger guys watching, who see these people as idols.

I thought Indycar was on the up, but this shows me how farcial the sport really is. There is some really top calibre in the series currently, so just let them do what they are paid to do, RACE!

I'll admit, I've been perhaps overly critical of American motorsport in the past, and was ready to give it a chance. But what I've seen recently, poor racing, idiots who wreck others on purpose and really shoddy rules shows how desprate these series are. I think I'll stay on the other side of the Atlantic to watch my motorsport from now on, thanks.

Edited by JHS, 03 August 2010 - 07:29 PM.

[Pucky the Whale]

JHS, on 18 July 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

So, this has been bugging me for most the day. I thought I'd post my thoughts here and see what bites.

I saw a clip today of the Nationwide race that I believe happened just the other day. Basically, what happens is Carl Edwards wrecks Brad Keselowski intentionally on the line, before Brad's car is hit several times broadside and at a fast speed.

What really boiled my blood though, was Edwards and his team's reaction, celebrating, clapping, cheering, yelling "good job" over the radio.

Good job?!

There's just been possibly one of the worst types of incidents you can get in motor racing, a car being hit broadside. How the f*ck is that a good job? Thankfully, Keselowski was okay, but how would they have felt if he'd been injured or even worse?

My next question. How is NASCAR, such a joke of a series, able to survive? It's biased as f*ck and it's more dangerous than any other series I'd say, seeing as you've got some complete tools, racing around in 200mph cars with no disregard for each other's safety when they should never be allowed anywhere near a race car in the first place.

Now let me say, the things I know about NASCAR and oval racing on general could be written on a sticky note so feel free to correct me on anything. Yet, as an "outsider" so to speak, this series doesn't look good. At all.

It was a bulls##t maneuver.

But you posted your reaction a bit too soon, and it was a bit too harsh.

NASCAR penalized Carl Edwards 60 points (by NASCAR standards, this is a large fine) and $25,000, as well as placing him on probation until December 31 (meaning he is subject to suspension if he does anything objectionable between now and then).

Now, the claims you make...don't let frustration lead to irrationality.

Biased as ****?  It's entertainment, sure, is everything legitimate?  No series is, sorry.  There are backdoor deals everywhere, certain teams that get past tech inspection, certain teams that have their own set of rules, etc.  All series you watch, all series I watch...it just is.  But it's not that biased.  Dale Earnhardt, Jr. hasn't won since 2008, so they aren't exactly throwing races.

Most dangerous series ever?  Try harder.  Brad Keselowski wasn't injured and the move was declared illegal and penalized.  NASCAR just doesn't announce penalties until Tuesday/Wedensday rather than same-day like the FIA.  If it were dangerous, Elliott Sadler would have died on Sunday in a massive head-on, full-speed hit into a stretch of armco where the car hit so hard the engine flew out of the car and the rest of the car flew backwards across the track.  Sadler, however, was 100% uninjured due to the extreme safety of the COT, and the SAFER barrier will be installed in that area by the next race at Pocono in June 2011.

NASCAR run a safe show.  They really do try; sometimes the drivers ignore the rules, sadly.  Not everyone in the sport is admirable, but no sport should be judged on one athlete.  They all have a few really classless people, and a few really great ones.  You've expressed a vague interest in the NHL, yet they didn't penalize a blatant hit to the head that actually did seriously injure a player (concussion).

So, my point here?

To each his own.  You don't have to like NASCAR.  Just try to be rational about it.  Every series and every sport have flaws.

JHS, on 02 August 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

There is some really top calibre in the series currently, so just let them do what they are paid to do, RACE!

Two problems here:

1. Only six IndyCar drivers are actually paid.

2. You make it seem like the drivers don't like the rule.  They actually do.  The drivers asked for the rule to be put in place in Champ Car in 2007, and asked the IRL this year to do it.  All other drivers who commented on the rule since 2007 have been in favor of it.  Hélio knew the rule and approved of the rule and agreed to follow the rule.  He then broke it.  You may not like the rule, and that's fine, but the drivers all agreed to it and were the ones who asked for it, so there's no sympathy for Hélio.

Over-arching point:

We're all allowed to like what we like and what we don't, but I think the easiest thing to do is to just "love it or leave it."  Why spend your time letting these sports really bother you when you can just ignore them and stick to what pleases you?  It's okay to dislike something; just be fair in your criticism.

[Pucky the Whale]

Back from the Pennsylvania 500.  If anything happened, I would post it here.  But nothing really did.

So instead, here are all the pictures I took:


-------------------------

The world of U.S. sports car racing is about to get quite the shakeup.  Jean Todt's visit to Daytona?  The FIA want to sanction Grand-Am as NASCAR intend to drop it.  Their goals?  Make the GT class GT3.  Audi, BMW, and someone else I forget have expressed an interest in a Grand-Am GT3 formula.  As for Daytona Prototypes, the FIA would like to "embrace technology" and make the greenhouse smaller for sleeker, more aesthetically pleasing prototypes.

This puts the ALMS in an interesting position, of course, trying to fight the FIA on their own soil to keep LMP racing here.  With Don Panoz looking to sell, it seems like ALMS may be absorbed into a WLMS-type series, with the "big races" and a small amount of teams going, and everything else heading to Grand-Am or closing up.  I'd absolutely be gutted by that; ALMS are hurting in prototype car count, but still produce fantastic racing, and with an Audi R15 and perhaps the Aston Martin DBR1-2 joining full-time in 2011, ALMS can still get it done.

I was impressed to see ALMS taking my advice and putting a program on Discovery Channel that explored the green technology of the series.  That's who you need to market ALMS to: people who don't actually watch auto racing.  It's the one market they can completely dominate over NASCAR etc because it's such a unique series and has appeal to a more affluent, educated crowd, which sponsors really appreciate.

[JHS]

Pucky the Whale, on 04 August 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

2. You make it seem like the drivers don't like the rule.  They actually do.  The drivers asked for the rule to be put in place in Champ Car in 2007, and asked the IRL this year to do it.  All other drivers who commented on the rule since 2007 have been in favor of it.  Hélio knew the rule and approved of the rule and agreed to follow the rule.  He then broke it.  You may not like the rule, and that's fine, but the drivers all agreed to it and were the ones who asked for it, so there's no sympathy for Hélio.

I can't believe that, sorry, and these guys are racing drivers? It just smacks to me that Brian Barnhart has never watched a single auto race outside of the IRL. This is what he said (and I'm quoting) whilst defending the rule.

Quote

Our rule against blocking is there from a safety aspect, but we're also trying to improve entertainment value. If you allow cars to defend, you're going to have a boring event.

What?!

A few things

1. Safety, okay, on an oval I can see the sense behind that. There have been some truly awful accidents with cars interlocking wheels on oval tracks and you only have to look as recent as Conway's crash as evidence for that. But, "motorsport is dangerous", fans, drivers, teams all know that, yet the continue to turn up and race. Also, on a street track where average speeds are way slower than they would be on an oval track, the danger of cars interlocking wheels is considerably less.

2. He's basically admitted that yes, the IRL are indeed manufacturing fake racing. That's how desperate the series is right now.

3. Yes, it may cause a "boring" event, but that's racing! Overtakes in auto racing need to be difficult and hard fought to the last, and they need to be spectacular and impressive. That's what'd get the crowd flocking. You aren't going to get an exciting race all the time, likewise in oval races where cars are passing almost constantly, that's not much better either. It's just too much. You need to strike a happy medium. As I've said in a previous post, I couldn't care if I go to a race and there isn't much overtaking, but if the lead cars are battling (meaning the lead car defending and the ones behind attacking it), that's exciting, that's a good race. Furthermore, in those sorts of situations, isn't it the case that the faster car in second is attacking the slower one in first? So if you let the faster guy go past so easily and he disappears into the distance, then that's boring.

I find it a bit of an insult really, what this guy is saying. He's basically underestimating knowledge of the fans, he thinks if the fans see lots of super-fun overtaking, it'll be all good! Yet I'm sure there's many people in the crowd who'd want to see what these drivers are really good at and battling hard with each other instead of waving each other past all the time. It's blindingly obvious for the world to see from what he's said and how the series opperates that this is not real racing at all, it's a desperate series, struggling to keep ailing TV figures up and trying to survive until the new car comes into place.

[mikathegreat2]

ALMS @ Mid-Ohio today, will be broadcasted live on ALMS website but you have to register for a code to watch here.

2nd time the ALMS has been officially broadcasted (excluding justin.tv & USTREAM users) live on the tinterweb! The 1st race was Laguna & that was 1 of the best races I've EVER seen!

[Pucky the Whale]

James, Paul Tracy, who attends drivers' meetings, and talks to the drivers, posted on another forum that the drivers asked for this rule and support it and all agree to abide by it.  I trust he knows the situation when he was around in CCWS in 2007 and the IRL in 2010 when these rules were made.  All drivers knew of the rule.

I don't like it and neither do you, but don't feel bad for the "poor little drivers who aren't allowed to race."  Because they agreed to it, and many of them asked for it (Tracy, a noted hard racer, among them).  Why?  Because Barnhart does a poor job with blocking calls, so they wanted it clearly defined, however ridiculous the definition was.  They got a definition, they agreed to race under that definition, and no driver asked (not Power, not Franchitti, not Dixon, not Tracy) defended Hélio in the least; they knew that, while it may not have been a block in other series, it was a block in this series.  Hélio supported and knew the rule until he broke it; sucks for him.

Driver support doesn't make it a good rule for the fans, of course, but that's how it is.  Some like it, some don't.  I don't like it, but not everyone does agree with me, and not everyone should.

Barnhart should be fired, but not over this.  So should many others: Kevin Blanch, for example, lets Ganassi and Penske compete with illegal cars (as we all knew) because they threaten to leave the sport every time they fail tech inspection.  Penske, for the record, leaving would kill the IRL because he essentially is the most powerful man there.  He owns all the engine leases, and therefore if he leaves, so do all the engines.  He runs the IRL and has for a while.

Just do what I've been doing for a while and ignore the IRL; they have no fans and there's a reason for that.  If you find something so stupid and frustrating, there's no need to keep reading news articles about it and watching clips of races and such.  Don't give it more attention than it needs and don't let something so silly bother you this much.  Sometimes you have to just let things go.