1007 replies to this topic

[The Shadow]

I watched the first two hours of the New England race and I was surprised at how similar #NASCAR is to F1. Position changes due to tyres fading. Focus on "running your own race, pit stop problems with the jacks and relatively few changes for the lead.

Like I said, I only saw the beginning, cos it was on live over here on cable (ESPN Star), but I see so many similarities that I'm sure surprised Bernie didn't have a hand in it. If I were #NASCAR, I'd shorten the pre race show to about an hour for international audiences.

Just saying....

[JHS18]

I agree the NASCAR pre race shows are ridiculously long.

Still, if you want to talk about excessive pre-shows, step forwards Sky F1. For Silverstone, on the Sunday, they were on air a full TWO HOURS before the race. Now I like F1 but that's just beyond...beyond.

(Compare that to a live BBC race where they're only on air fifty minutes before the race... )

[Massa]

Oddly enough, I've watched an ESPN Star NASCAR broadcast once, maybe back in 2007 or 2008, and by pure coincidence, it was New England.

My personal choice is Formula One on FOX...the live broadcast for Montréal started at 2:00 PM, and the race started at 2:02 PM.  Exactly how I prefer it.

I never understood prerace much; if I'm just changing channels aimlessly and I see a bunch of old guys talking, I'm not going to stick around.  If I'm just changing channels aimlessly and I see an auto race, I might be more inclined to say "hmm, this is interesting," and leave it on.

A lot of the time, I get so frustrated as to not knowing when the race will actually start (even the track websites' event schedules are off) that I don't even tune in.  In my opinion, the NASCAR races themselves are too long, so if I have to watch prerace, I'm ready to leave and do something else by lap ten.

at problems with jacks.  Nice one.  McLaren build the ECUs for NASCAR, I guess they train the crews, too.

NASCAR can actually put on a decent show...though I often find that the races I enjoy, the ones with a lot of strategies and fuel mileage and not as much passing, are the ones that all the other NASCAR fans can't stand.  Meanwhile, I complain about Daytona and Talladega and those are the two most popular.

[The Shadow]

About the prerace shows I don't mind them too much as long as they schedule it as an exclusive prerace instead of bundling the whole package into one program. I know that every race weekend is an eventful time and I understand the producers wanting to bring in some of that magic (mix of anticipation, noise, technical gossip, driver and personnel movements, noise, visuals, spectators) alive on the screen for those at home to experience it (most times, thanklessly and without much in the way of positive feedback from viewers when things go right).

Its just that they should also accommodate the demographic that do not have the time or interest for those shows. If they separate and make the prerace into its own program and the race / post-race into its own distinct but pre-packaged block I think it would be much clearer and better targeted, without losing the integrity of the program itself.

[Massa]

Two things I see all the time on U.S. racing forums that bother me:

1. The declaration that Al Unser, Jr. "should have taken the Williams ride" and wouldn't have been an alcoholic if he had gone to F1.  I have two problems with that, the first being that alcoholism doesn't magically go away when you become an F1 driver, and the other thing: Unser was never offered a Williams ride.  Everyone wants to pretend "their Al" was good enough for F1, but in reality, Sir Frank Williams told Al to go do a year or two in F3000 and then try again.

So there was no Williams offer on the table, but in 1990, Michael Andretti did have an offer from Benetton.  Carl Haas blocked it.  Ayrton Senna loved Michael Andretti as a teammate, by the way, probably because he didn't get in the way (since he was on a plane back to Pennsylvania all the time) and never challenged him on-track, so in an effort to save him, let him use all his setup data at Monza.  Andretti got a podium, but was still fired.

2. Complaints about "waaah this driver isn't fan friendly, he wouldn't spend seven hours talking to me and signing one hundred items and taking pictures" or "waaaah this driver seems so bored and rude in interviews."  Oh, the horrors, introverts can be a professional racing driver...I know the expectation in the U.S. is that you're supposed to "owe" the fans, but the fans aren't that important as it happens, because there are only a few dozen IndyCar fans and somehow that series keeps plugging away.

But seriously, if I were a driver, I wouldn't avoid fans to be rude, I'd be avoiding fans because I'd completely never think to go talk to them because, well, I hate small talk and I'd feel so uncomfortable in a huge crowd of people, let alone one of people gushing over me.  Same as smiling ear to ear and yelling how excited I am to be there probably wouldn't, either.  Not for being rude or ungrateful, simply for being strange.

There's a difference between being quiet and uncomfortable and being a complete a**hole, and I'd probably fall into both categories so good thing my career ended with a youth karting spec series at age 12 (the last race I ever ran was an endurance race, teams of two drivers randomly drawn.  My co-driver had a nice lead when I got in.  I brought it back to the pits in third place...he was livid...I never raced again because I hated team sports.  I didn't care when I was a total w#nker out there ruining my own race, but as soon as others cared how I did, yikes).

Now, don't get me wrong, if you complain about having to meet with fans at planned events and make it seem like you hate your job, no sympathy, you didn't have to be a celebrity, you could've done something else.  But drivers who don't actively seek the fans out, and drivers who aren't talking a mile-a-minute about how great the world is during their interviews, they don't hate you and they aren't miserable...they're just part of the 30% of people that the 70% keep trying to "pry out of their shells" which only forces the 30% further into them (from my biased perspective from within the 30%).

Useless post, I know, but you see I'm banned from every forum on the entire Internet (just about), so I can't make these replies on those forums, and I just have to get it out anyway.

[Massa]

Well hell that was pretty long for a post about nothing!

[Massa]

Let's talk about something I find so hilarious and so stupid at the same time.  Stay with me through the summary...it gets better...

The Nationwide race at Loudon.  Amber Cope was many laps down and causing a lot of issues.  She held up race leader Kevin Harvick in traffic (she was side-by-side with another lapped car, and Harvick was underneath a third lapped car behind her, so it was a lot of traffic).  Brad Keselowski passed Harvick and won.

Post-race, Harvick said that "she wants to be Danica but couldn't hold her helmet," before saying he "didn't even know who it was."  How you would know she was a she but not know who she was...oh, that's right, Kevin Harvick's crew chief is Ernie Cope.  Oops, must have forgotten, eh, Kevin?

The next day Harvick says:

Quote

Pick out some boots, your favorite song, and find a new job.

Harvick was, obviously, implying the Cope twins (Angela being the other) should be strippers rather than racing drivers, which, for the record, I think is a really sexist and stupid thing to say.  If a male driver had blocked him, I'm sure Harvick would have been just as angry, but I don't think he'd tell a male driver to be a stripper.  The Cope twins don't belong in NASCAR, but that's just a shot at them being female more than anything and I don't like that, personally.

ANYWAY...

So Angela Cope has responded with something really clever: she's going to prey on the stupidity of NASCAR fans to get money!

http://www.gofundme....rbieoutofNASCAR

She's asking fans to donate $100,000 to get the "best" equipment and practice time possible for the Charlotte race.  A third party surveying company will conduct a poll afterward as to whether or not she belongs on track, and if fans still think she is a talentless hack, she promises to never race again.

I'm sorry but this is so funny, and so stupid...oh my gosh...NASCAR's gone so far past the point of being an actual sport to me...I...how...oh man...

Well kudos to Angela for turning all this attention into a way to take money from complete morons who think giving you money will get you to go away, and care that much about one driver who runs two or three races per year to not be in NASCAR's second tier series...it's so dumb it's brilliant.

[Massa]

So IndyCar is seriously looking at green-white-checkers for next year.

Since adopting GWC in Sprint Cup back in 2004, the outcomes of 16 races, many of which were Daytona 500s, were altered by GWC (meaning that the driver leading at the race's scheduled distance did not win the race; obviously, more races had outcomes altered in that some positions changed).

You can count on me never watching the Indianapolis 505.  They add GWC, I'm out.  You don't do that to Indy.  I can't take NASCAR seriously so I guess I can "deal with it" there, though I hate it, but the 500, no chance.  Imagine them cleaning up Sato's wreck and restarting for a "shootout" this year.

The thing is, it's not "overtime" like they say.  Overtime is not reserved for when they don't like an outcome; overtime is for breaking a tie.  GWC is for the series saying "I don't like how the race ended, let's have a do-over."

It's the equivalent of taking a soccer game where one team scored 2 goals early on and the game went scoreless the rest of the way, ending 2-0, and saying "that was a boring ending, let's give the losing team three penalty kicks to try to win."

Not every game ends in a hail Mary pass for a touchdown.  Not every game has a goal with 0.1 seconds on the clock.  Not every race gets a photo finish.

First to complete 500 miles.  That's the winner.  End of.  I realize I don't matter.  I'm the "right demographic" for them but I'm just one idiot with a keyboard.

But there was life before I started watching the 500, and there will be life after the 500 if they decided to add a few miles after the 500...

[The Shadow]

Reeks of desperation, a series in decline...

America deserves to have a Formula series, given its contribution to motorsports. But if it does not translate into viewership, it cannot be a lucrative commercial option for advertising. I suppose what I see is that Indy is not the formula for the general American public.

What would be the right Open wheel formula for America then?

Given that a lot of interest seems to lie in "Grassroot Racing" (Drifting, Amateur track motorsports, Rallycross) & NASCAR, it would probably be a good idea for an open wheel championship that would allow anybody with the sufficient funding and expertise to set up a team and go for it, without too many technical parameters but with a tight budget cap?

Everyone likes an underdog winning against the odds. Anyway just throwing the idea out there..

[Massa]

Not a bad idea, at all.

I think it's a really difficult question to answer.  IndyCar is going to be a niche sport; it can't contend with mainstream sports in the U.S.  But if you look at the niche, it's hard to see where IndyCar fits.  Road racing fans are watching F1 more than IndyCar in the U.S. now, and ALMS and Grand-Am aren't that far behind Indy.  With oval racing, a lot of oval fans are disenfranchised with IndyCar for not emphasizing ovals enough, so a lot of those fans are sticking to the small stuff or watching NASCAR.  The key is to make the sport appeal to people who like racing, like cars, and like technology.  A niche sport should focus on the sport itself, and not the competitors; mainstream sports focus on stories and competitors.  In short, IndyCar needed an exciting new car that could make headlines, provide some good racing (which a lot of people say the DW12 does, and the one race I watched, Indy, was good for sure), just have some appeal...and that new car probably had to be new cars, because most enthusiasts who look for niche racing seem to enjoy the competition (which, to be fair, they at least have with engines, and they did want to do aerokits but will not be doing them in 2013).

I guess a lot of what might help them, the team owners don't want, and both the series and teams don't have enough money to do.  It's a bit messy...

...but it's probably also not as bad as this thread has made it out to be, either, to be completely fair.

[Massa]

Thursday will be a big day in NASCAR...

A.J. Allmendinger had his "B" sample tested today, and the results will be known Thursday.

Also, Chevrolet will unveil their 2013 Sprint Cup car, which will be the last of the four, with Ford, Dodge, and Toyota already revealing their entries for next year and, credit to NASCAR, they all look a lot better than what we've had for...well...a very long time (the cars before the COT didn't exactly look good, either).  They look like the road cars, and not all the road cars look good, but the cars are supposed to look like the road cars so I like that a lot.  I wonder how they'll race...

[Massa]

Breaking news (well that means nothing now, since there's Twitter to break stuff):

A.J. Allmendinger has failed the drug test and is suspended indefinitely from NASCAR.  He will have to comply with NASCAR's rehab program to be reinstated to the sport.  Sam Hornish, Jr. will continue in the #22 this weekend.  A.J. Foyt has already said he'd like to talk to Allmendinger about an IndyCar ride, because putting someone using banned substances in an IndyCar is a wonderful idea...

IndyCar tidbits:

Edmonton got the lowest TV rating of the season so far, with 194,000 viewers (.13).  The Nationwide race on the same day got 2,800,000 viewers.  Yet to see a U.S. rating for the German Grand Prix, also on Sunday, and I don't think we will because each affiliate aired it at a different time (some saw it at 10 AM Eastern, I saw it at noon Eastern, someone else saw it at 5 PM Eastern).

Lotus are pulling out after 2012.

Aerokits are not coming in 2013.

An ESPN SportsNation poll suggests that 59% of voters would prefer to watch the Brickyard 400 to the Indianapolis 500, which gets 41% of the votes.

SparkNotes: Business as usual.

[Massa]

http://penskeracing....ies=n&cid=51267

Quote

The following statement should be attributed to Penske Racing:
In accordance with NASCAR's Substance Abuse Policy, Penske Racing was notified today of AJ Allmendinger's positive B sample test. We respect NASCAR's policy and the process they have taken with this matter.

Penske Racing is very disappointed with the result of the B sample test and will evaluate its course of action as it pertains to AJ over the coming week.

Sam Hornish Jr., will drive the No. 22 Dodge Charger this weekend at Indianapolis and next weekend at Pocono.

I share this because they put the comma after "Jr." instead of before and that's very amateurish for an organization like Penske...just like their annual pit gaffe at the Indy 500!

[Massa]

"We will work to get to the source of what caused this"...uh, how about, I don't know, drug use?  Whether recreational or unaware of what's in a supplement, using banned substances caused the failure, nothing more.

http://www.sbnation....2012/in/2907860

[Massa]

Deleted.

[Massa]

Also: Brad Parrott (NASCAR crew chief; I think he's with Tommy Baldwin Racing now, but he used to be Juan Pablo Montoya's crew chief for a time, at least in Nationwide, but maybe in Cup) says Juan Pablo Montoya will be in the 22 car sooner than you think.

No idea what that's all about...

[Massa]

A.J. Allmendinger will participate in NASCAR's "Road to Recovery" program.

This is mandatory to be reinstated to NASCAR.  The length of and the specific program depend on what Allmendinger failed for and what his situation is.  Those details are not available.

[JHS18]

Read this:

Quote

The initial results ruled out anything illegal — as in methamphetamines, cocaine, Ecstasy or marijuana. The test also precluded alcohol.

http://msn.foxsports...d-driver-072512

[Massa]

A lot of contradictions now...

You have Allmendinger's business manager saying it wasn't an illegal drug...

...but you have Dr. Black, who does NASCAR's drug testing, saying on ESPN that it wasn't a supplement or energy drink.

I wish Allmendinger and his people would just be honest with us.  Say nothing or say the truth.  They're making up a story about supplements and energy drinks and things, and that's not why he failed the test.  Is it possible that A.J. took something that was "legal" but on NASCAR's banned substance list?  Of course it is.  But that thing wasn't a supplement or energy drink, and Allmendinger's business manager has been saying all along that it was.  So she's already told one lie, and now she's altering her story again.  How do we know anything is the truth from Tara Ragan anymore?

I hope his rehab goes well.  Maybe Tara needs to go through a program of some sort to teach her to be honest.  Quit the cover-your-*** stuff and either say "we accept NASCAR's decision and will work through the program" and end it right there, or come clean and say "A.J. failed for (whatever)."  There should be no "we accept NASCAR's decision and will work through the program and are so confused how did this happen we have no idea how strange" when they do know, for 100% fact, what they failed for, despite telling us time and time again they are "trying to figure this out."

I don't like them using the media to lie to naïve people who will believe it.  NASCAR respects the drivers by not releasing the specific substance, and giving the driver the right to choose.  Tara Ragan and A.J. Allmendinger are abusing that right by using it to fabricate whatever kind of story they want to.  Even if Allmendinger didn't fail for something illegal, they've still already lied about supplements and energy shots, and lied about not knowing what he failed for since they always did all along.

[Massa]

And for a laugh, Jeremy Mayfield's take on it:

http://aol.sportingn...substance-abuse

Note that Jeremy completely ignores being arrested on multiple felony charges, including possession of meth!  Gosh golly Jeremy, what a coincidence you failed a drug test for meth and had meth in your house!  I bet NASCAR put the meth there!

[Massa]

Just saw this from Jim Utter's Twitter:

NASCAR officials told A.J. Allmendinger on July 7 the exact substance that caused Allmendinger to fail his drug test.

But yesterday, July 24, Tara Ragan told us they had no idea what he failed for, and were going to go through all his supplements and medications to see what ever could have caused it...

Sorry, Tara, nothing you say is credible now...

[JHS18]

I don't understand why they don't just name now what he tested positive for, to avoid all this speculation? Who is it going to harm?

It is fair to say that whilst he could be innocent, most the media have made it seems like he's some guy who takes illegal drugs.

So if it something like an energy drink or whatever, why not say so and prove your innocence? Equally, if it is bad - well at least the truth is out and you can focus on rehab.

[Massa]

Tara Ragan finally comes clean and tells us more...why not tell us everything from the start, Tara?

She has confirmed Allmendinger failed for an amphetamine.  This seems to be tied to performance enhancing drugs.  Amphetamine is actually illegal, so Tara Ragan lied again in the article, even if A.J. was using it in a supplement unknowingly rather than taking "speed" recreationally etc.

http://en.wikipedia....e-enhancing_use

So, to sum up: Allmendinger failed his drug test, and he failed for a drug that is banned in NASCAR and is illegal in the United States.

[Massa]

Allmendinger's suspension will likely last around five months.

Chevrolet's announcement is today.  This is their NNS car under wraps.  It's either a Camaro or a warped Impala.



I also assume the Cup car will be unveiled.

I have to say the new Cup cars for 2013 are the only things giving me any hope in NASCAR, because otherwise...meh.

Though I will be watching the Nationwide races at Watkins Glen and Montréal, because I love road course racing, and at Montréal, a certain Alex Tagliani will be in the #30 Turner Motorsports car that Nelson Piquet one in at Road America, so that excites me.

[Massa]

The NASCAR Nationwide Series Chevrolet Camaro.  Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger are already there, so it makes sense:

http://twitpic.com/abyv0r

Only one that doesn't make sense now is the Toyota Camry, which looks horrible because they designed it around the 2009 Toyota Camry (which it looks nothing like anyway), and now they gave it the 2012 Camry's headlights but kept the old front, so the Camry is really just a conglomerate of things that look vaguely like past Toyotas and it's a wretched example of how far from production stock cars can look under the wrong rules.

But the Camaro's a huge upgrade from the Impala they run in NNS now.  Excited to see the Cup car, which is based on a model that isn't even seen now.  That model will be a 2014 Chevrolet SS, which will be a next-gen Holden Commodore.

[Massa]

The horror, the horror!  They lied!

The Cup car will not be unveiled today.  Waaaaaaaaaah.

[Massa]

Best article you'll read about the Allmendinger stuff:

http://www.buildings...ont-understand/

[Massa]

Danica Patrick is back in Indianapolis this weekend to run the Nationwide race on Saturday, so naturally the media are asking her if she'll run the 500 again.  I'm not sure how serious Danica is about doing the double next year, but she says she wants to.  I don't know if it's just to keep her name in the headlines this weekend and to play along with the media.  I'd like to see her try it.

What will make it difficult for her?  Well, at Indianapolis, she won't get much practice time and she's never driven the DW12.  If she doesn't have a teammate to help with setup, it will be tough.  No one can deny that having a "feel" for the car was Danica's weakness, and that her setup abilities aren't as good as that of the top-flight drivers.  It won't be easy for her to just get in the car and go.

That said, Danica was one of the most consistent drivers at Indianapolis.  Outside of the pit incident in 2008 with Ryan Briscoe (I believe it was Briscoe's fault, don't remember), Danica has finished top ten in every 500 she's run, and was on track to finish there in 2008.  She's also done it with some less-than-stellar equipment.  In 2006, the Panoz was an awful chassis, but she manged eighth.  In 2011, two of her teammates failed to qualify, but she came from twenty-fifth to finish tenth.  Her best result was 2009, P3, from tenth starting place and recovering from a blown pit stop.  Outside of her rookie year, she's never even spun the car, which is a huge accomplishment at Indy where it's so easy to wreck.

So she's certainly someone steady for race day who will get a good finish, even if she wouldn't likely contend for the win (she only really did that once, back in 2005).

[Massa]

So who else has attempted the 1100-mile (~1770.278 km) run of the Indianpolis 500 and Coca-Cola 600 in the same day?

John Andretti (1994)
Indianapolis 500: 10
Coca-Cola 600: 36
Total distance: 820 miles

Robby Gordon attempted to do it in 1997, but the Indy 500 was rained out and run on Monday (for 15 laps) and Tuesday (to completion), so he only ran the NASCAR race on Sunday.

Tony Stewart (1999)
Indianapolis 500: 9
Coca-Cola 600: 4
Total distance: 1090 miles

Robby Gordon (2000)
Indianapolis 500: 6
Coca-Cola 600: NC
Total distance: ??? miles

Due to rain, Gordon arrived late to the Coca-Cola 600, such that P.J. Jones started the car, and was therefore classified (in 35^th).  Robby Gordon did get into the car at some point during the race, but it is unclear how many miles he actually completed in the Coca-Cola 600.  Gordon did complete all 500 miles at Indy that year.

Tony Stewart (2001)
Indianapolis 500: 6
Coca-Cola 600: 3
Total distance: 1100 miles

Robby Gordon (2002)
Indianapolis 500: 8
Coca-Cola 600: 16
Total distance: 1098.5 miles

Robby Gordon (2003)
Indianapolis 500: 22
Coca-Cola 600: 17
Total distance: 835 miles

The Coca-Cola 600 was shortened to 414 miles (of which, Gordon completed 412.5) due to rain in 2003.

Robby Gordon (2004)
Indianapolis 500: 29
Coca-Cola 600: 20
Total distance: 665.5 miles

Robby Gordon left the Indianapolis 500 after it was red-flagged after lap 28 due to rain.  Jaques Lazier replaced him in the car, but retired on lap 88.  Gordon only completed 70 miles at Indianapolis, but was classified as P29 because he started the car.

That day I bolded is part of why I regard Tony Stewart as one of the greatest drivers in the world.

[Massa]

Jimmie Johnson gets number four at Indianapolis, tying him with Jeff Gordon and only Jeff Gordon, not Rick Mears, Al Unser, or A.J. Foyt as they won four of an entirely different race, and not putting him one behind Michael Schumacher, who won five of an entirely different race on an entirely different track that just happens to be at the same venue as the other one.

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. takes the points lead for the first time since September 2004.

Next race is Pocono, but I would like to alert everyone about three upcoming races after that:

August 11 sees the Nationwide Series at Watkins Glen, with Sprint Cup there on August 12.  Then, on August 18, the Nationwide Series is at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, featuring Alex Tagliani, Patrick Carpentier, and, as far as we know, Jacques Villeneuve.

So that's three road course races in seven days, which is about the most interesting NASCAR will get all year, for me, at least.