22 replies to this topic

[Insider]

His Imperial Highness, Christian Horner has deemed McLaren's win on Sunday was purely due to an under performing pair of RB8s. Yes, he's completely correct.  Both cars under performed in relation to the MP4-27s that Button and Hamilton drove onto the podium in 1st and 3rd place respectively. They performed very well indeed and had JBs engineer not miscalculated his fuel, he could have gone faster apparently. Of course, we expect everyone to up their game next Sunday, particularly Merc and Ferrari. We want the whole lot of them in there scrapping away. However, the arrogance of Horner is rather unfounded, I feel. Red Bull have had the best trick pony at the rodeo for a while but Woking are a massively talented organisation and they have come up with a great racing car well within the new regs. I would say there is a 7/10ths difference overall on Sunday's showing and RBR will have to work hard to make that up. More so, as McLaren know they can tweak what is already a very quick beast.

Vettel say the team have a 'master plan'. Is National Socialism abroad in the pit lane? Sounds a little Hitlerian to me and smacks of bloated propaganda. Was Sunday showing an elaborate smoke screen? Are Red Bull the chosen race, er, team? Have we interfered with their destiny? Naughty Mr Whitmarsh. He no doubt will be shot if one of his stormtroopers wins in Kuala Lumpar. Maybe I should get me old ARP helmet out

[Massa]

It's true, McLaren did not win.  Räikkönen won.  At least that's the impression I get around the Internet.

[Insider]

Massa, on 19 March 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

It's true, McLaren did not win.  Räikkönen won.  At least that's the impression I get around the Internet.

How very moderate of you

[AleHop]

Not hitlerian or nazi but Honer sounds, once again, way too arrogant. Vettel is probably trying to send a message for the media in Germany and his fan base around the world. If don't perform accordingly in Malaysia he might leave Sepang with egg all over his face.


Nothing like shut up and drive.

[Quiet One]

As much as I hate the guy, I am guessing he was merely just being facetious. Without actually hearing or watching the actual context it is hard to judge.

They are arrogant, yes, but not that arrogant.

[BradSpeedMan]

Insider, on 19 March 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

His Imperial Highness, Christian Horner has deemed McLaren's win on Sunday was purely due to an under performing pair of RB8s. Yes, he's completely correct.  Both cars under performed in relation to the MP4-27s that Button and Hamilton drove onto the podium in 1st and 3rd place respectively. They performed very well indeed and had JBs engineer not miscalculated his fuel, he could have gone faster apparently. Of course, we expect everyone to up their game next Sunday, particularly Merc and Ferrari. We want the whole lot of them in there scrapping away. However, the arrogance of Horner is rather unfounded, I feel. Red Bull have had the best trick pony at the rodeo for a while but Woking are a massively talented organisation and they have come up with a great racing car well within the new regs. I would say there is a 7/10ths difference overall on Sunday's showing and RBR will have to work hard to make that up. More so, as McLaren know they can tweak what is already a very quick beast.

As sad as that sounds I have to admit it's the truth...

Man, Jenson drove!

[mikathegreat2]

I blame the nose.

[Insider]

BradSpeedMan, on 19 March 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

As sad as that sounds I have to admit it's the truth...

Man, Jenson drove!

You're right - nothing left to say. Nada, nassuna, capische!

[BradSpeedMan]

Insider, on 19 March 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

You're right - nothing left to say. Nada, nassuna, capische!

[Senna's Ghost]

On the face of it it sounds disingenuous but, as has already been stated, you've got to understand the context and the manner in which it was said.

[dribbler]

mikathegreat2, on 19 March 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

I blame the nose.

You think Kubica would have won in an RB8?

Although delivered with more than a hint of arrogance that's sure to rub the McLaren fans up the wrong way, I fear Horner may have a point. If Moo Rouge don't screw qualifying, I expect them to give Woking hassle, lean Macca fuel mix or not.

Go on then, I'll crawl out on to an extended piece of space craft; Vettel will win in Malaysia.

[HandyNZL]

So Vettel and Webber both screwed up qualifying in Aussie??? I saw no instance of that...certainly nothing along the lines of Rosberg running wide in one run and locking up on the other.

Red Bull ARE behind McLaren - qualifying proved it.  I would say that they are actually on equal footing with Lotus as Grosjean did NOT get that good in his time away....that was more car performance than it was driver performance.

The fact that Red Bull are bothering to protest Mercedes says to me that the car is not as fast as the media and everyone's wet dreams have wanted.

[HandyNZL]

......and, if it were not for Petrov parking on the main straight (idiot), then Vettel would not have been second...he would have been a distant third.  If that is their master plan, then they are more than welcome to it...doesn't seem so well thought out to me

The SC bunched them back up, appeared to give Vettel an advantage in terms of the delta lap time thing they have to do, and distorted the previous hour or so of racing.

Horner should have just said "well played, and we'll get you next time" or something like that.  Not that they somehow "let" McLaren win.

[Insider]

HandyNZL, on 20 March 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

......and, if it were not for Petrov parking on the main straight (idiot), then Vettel would not have been second...he would have been a distant third.  If that is their master plan, then they are more than welcome to it...doesn't seem so well thought out to me

The SC bunched them back up, appeared to give Vettel an advantage in terms of the delta lap time thing they have to do, and distorted the previous hour or so of racing.

Horner should have just said "well played, and we'll get you next time" or something like that.  Not that they somehow "let" McLaren win.

Agree, agree, agree.

[Argento Reloaded]

McLaren didn´t win: all other teams lost!!! Ditto.

[dribbler]

HandyNZL, on 20 March 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

So Vettel and Webber both screwed up qualifying in Aussie??? I saw no instance of that...certainly nothing along the lines of Rosberg running wide in one run and locking up on the other.

Red Bull ARE behind McLaren - qualifying proved it.  I would say that they are actually on equal footing with Lotus as Grosjean did NOT get that good in his time away....that was more car performance than it was driver performance.

The fact that Red Bull are bothering to protest Mercedes says to me that the car is not as fast as the media and everyone's wet dreams have wanted.

I can count the times Christian Horner has had an outlandish statement come back to bite him on no fingers. He is a young, smart cookie. If he says Moo Rouge missed a trick in qualifying, I beleive him.

You are ignoring the fact that Webber is slower; Vettel would have been in front of him had he not stuffed it in P3 and not understood the soft tyres properly for qualifying. This means Vettel could have been third on the grid. Had that happened, he would have been in contention for the win.

Let's see what happens when we're back on a proper race track with mor complex corners requiring slightly more intelligent aero and a Vettel who's settled.

I hope I eat my words; More than anything, I want a Lewis/Jenson fight for the title with a Schuey-esque 'grabbing wins where he shouldn't' snap at the heels type season from Vettel.

[HandyNZL]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda's.

They got beat fair and square.

[dribbler]

HandyNZL, on 21 March 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda's.

They got beat fair and square.

I'm not disputing that.

The issue, to remind you, is whether Red Bull were in essence at the maximum of their potential as far as their weekend performance goes. Horner doesn't believe they were and it's this he is alluding to.

I happen to agree with him on this, but not his diplomacy skills.

[Quiet One]

dribbler, on 21 March 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I'm not disputing that.

The issue, to remind you, is whether Red Bull were in essence at the maximum of their potential as far as their weekend performance goes. Horner doesn't believe they were and it's this he is alluding to.

I happen to agree with him on this, but not his diplomacy skills.

My take on the situation, exactly. Or, as Kimi would put it: "One Ice Cream does not a summer make"

RBR could be closer on pace than displayed at Oz. Even if the current car is not as dominant as last year, it was a case of OZ not being one of Red Bulls cars' favorite track. The next ones are the allegedly best for the type of car Newey designed. So there we will be able to more closely assess whats the actual gap between the Maccas and the RBRs. If Vettel, as hinted in Australia, is the kind of driver able to extract juice from the stones a la Alonso, then Jenson will have his work cut out for him even at his best to keep the lead throughout the whole season.

The good news is that Lotus, Merc and even Ferrari are not that far behind. I have my doubts on how long can Merc and Lotus keep on the same pace and improve their performance but I am hoping for the best case scenario.

If Lewis can keep his focus for the whole season instead of phasing in and out, then we have an assured 3 race horse of epic proportions between the Maccas and Vettel. Alonso is the guy that no one can ignore even if driving an HRT, and Kimi and Schumi able to win from a third or fourth best cars as well...
It  might end up being a case of "Macca won...again" or "RBR won...again, but it surely gonna be a lot more uncomfortable win than in 2009 or 2011!

[Insider]

dribbler, on 21 March 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

I'm not disputing that.

The issue, to remind you, is whether Red Bull were in essence at the maximum of their potential as far as their weekend performance goes. Horner doesn't believe they were and it's this he is alluding to.

I happen to agree with him on this, but not his diplomacy skills.

My real take on this, verbal histrionics aside, is that RBR lost a ton of speed with the change in regs and they may have an engineering innovation that could give them the edge in the race but not necessarily in quail. The problem is - it didn't work properly in Oz. Mr Brawn is not in the habit of pointing fingers even when baited. Many observers believe there may be something in this RB8 cylinder use variant he is alluding to.  Jenson pulled a steady 3s gap to Lewis which went to 7s as the latter got stuck behind Sergio Perez. In fact, the gap had increased to a steady 12+s before McLaren's 'double shuffle' pit stop and the appearance of the safety car. Without either of these occurrences, how far ahead of Vettel would Button have finished? Certainly nowhere close to the time RBR had in mind. To put it bluntly, RBR have a problem, McLaren appear to have a car for all seasons. We shall see.

[AleHop]

Insider, on 21 March 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

To put it bluntly, RBR have a problem, McLaren appear to have a car for all seasons. We shall see.

When Red Bull have a competitive car on whatever track it will be Vettel 9 out of 10 times who will grab the big bucket of points. Webber will finish close enough to grab another bucket of points ahead of McLaren sometimes. Button and Hamilton will share wins when the car is winner and might finish behind Webber when the car is just ok.

[Insider]

AleHop, on 21 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

When Red Bull have a competitive car on whatever track it will be Vettel 9 out of 10 times who will grab the big bucket of points. Webber will finish close enough to grab another bucket of points ahead of McLaren sometimes. Button and Hamilton will share wins when the car is winner and might finish behind Webber when the car is just ok.

I am sure every true F1 one fan will be waiting for this day. However, I can assure you that McLaren and the other top teams won't be. When one team gains a tenth, your rivals annoyingly seem to gain two if you don't have the real deal in the first place. Only time will tell.

[AleHop]

Insider, on 21 March 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

I am sure every true F1 one fan will be waiting for this day. However, I can assure you that McLaren and the other top teams won't be. When one team gains a tenth, your rivals annoyingly seem to gain two if you don't have the real deal in the first place. Only time will tell.

I see you consider Ferrari a rival no more.