104 replies to this topic

[HandyNZL]

Well, I guess we could have a topic on a race that will never be.  There.  I said it.  I will put my balls on the line here and say that this race will not go ahead.

Bahrain has had protests this past weekend specifically about the race.  They're just getting warmed up...probing the police response so to speak.  Twitter is awash with protest calls, and no doubt other social networks.

If Bernie takes the circus there, and something happens, after all the "everything is going to be alright" and "media are making it up" statements, then someone would have to step up and ask him to quietly walk away.  Ministers in parliament get lynched by the mob for much less.

I have more faith in the US GP happening than this one....

[BradSpeedMan]

HandyNZL, on 02 April 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Well, I guess we could have a topic on a race that will never be.  There.  I said it.  I will put my balls on the line here and say that this race will not go ahead.

Bahrain has had protests this past weekend specifically about the race.  They're just getting warmed up...probing the police response so to speak.  Twitter is awash with protest calls, and no doubt other social networks.

If Bernie takes the circus there, and something happens, after all the "everything is going to be alright" and "media are making it up" statements, then someone would have to step up and ask him to quietly walk away.  Ministers in parliament get lynched by the mob for much less.

I have more faith in the US GP happening than this one....

Read the protestors are specifically targeting Bahrain not to host it... thats reason enough to stay away

[JHS18]

For those on the Twitter, there's a hashtag for the race. #bloodyf1

Doesn't look good.

And there's this as well.

Edited by JHS18, 02 April 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Senna's Ghost]

F1 should not go to Bahrain.  Simple as that.  Forget Bernie peddling the line that everything will be alright.  It might be alright for you Bernie as you will be given the full 5 star treatment by the hosts.  Not so alright for the people who live in Bahrain and are protesting over the manner in with the country is governed.  We've all seen the images on TV and the internet on this topic and it cannot be right that F1 turns a blind eye to it and carries on as normal over this veneer that the Bahrain put out to the watching world.

It's often said that F1 exists within a bubble.  It's about time that bubble was burst and let reality inside.

Shameful.

[Rainmaster]

Well, it isn't just Bernie it's the team bosses, too. Although I am surprised Bernie's recent comment didn't seem to draw criticism from somewhere: "The good thing about Bahrain is that it’s more democratic than most places. The people there are allowed to speak what they want and they can protest what they want to.”

Anyway, a contingency plan is apparently already in place for the teams' equipment to not go there, so we can expect everybody to go through the usual unnecessary PR exercise, before the race is ultimately cancelled again. To go would be a blunder. Details http://www.jamesalle...und-in-bahrain/

[JHS18]

Rainmaster, on 02 April 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Well, it isn't just Bernie it's the team bosses, too. Although I am surprised Bernie's recent comment didn't seem to draw criticism from somewhere: "The good thing about Bahrain is that it’s more democratic than most places. The people there are allowed to speak what they want and they can protest what they want to.”

Bernie's made enough ridiculously stupid comments like this in the past, that I think by now, nobody is surprised when he comes out with some more crap.

[Massa]

Jeremy Clarkson makes an offensive comment, rush to his defense, everyone making a big deal about it is a moron, everyone takes everything too seriously, blah blah blah.

Bernie Ecclestone makes an offensive comment, he's senile and ridiculous and stupid, because he must always be serious with everything he says and reading a context-less quote in print makes it very easy to determine that, blah blah blah.

Funny world and all that, blah blah blah.

On another note: Narain and Bahrain are rhyming words.  "Bah" is the sound a sheep makes.  Narain's full name is Kumar Narain Ram Karthikeyan. "Ram," get it, a ram is a sheep, boy, isn't that funny, ram, bah, Narain, Bahrain, blah blah blah.

[Massa]

Anyway, everyone and everything is supposed to be a social activist these days.  I'm not going to tell them they should or shouldn't run this race.  If they do, I can't wait to watch it, finally an 8 AM start time I can see.  If they don't, well, good for them.  I stand by any decision they make because quite frankly I don't know anything about the situation and I'm not going to pretend I do, and I'm definitely not going to pretend that F1 going or not going makes any difference whatsoever politically or anything like that.  If it isn't safe, don't go, if it is safe, go, and I'm not going to judge safety from here.

[JHS18]

Massa, on 02 April 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Jeremy Clarkson makes an offensive comment, rush to his defense, everyone making a big deal about it is a moron, everyone takes everything too seriously, blah blah blah.

Bernie Ecclestone makes an offensive comment, he's senile and ridiculous and stupid, because he must always be serious with everything he says and reading a context-less quote in print makes it very easy to determine that, blah blah blah.

Funny world and all that, blah blah blah.

On another note: Narain and Bahrain are rhyming words.  "Bah" is the sound a sheep makes.  Narain's full name is Kumar Narain Ram Karthikeyan. "Ram," get it, a ram is a sheep, boy, isn't that funny, ram, bah, Narain, Bahrain, blah blah blah.

To be honest, their situations are completely different.

Jeremy's made a career out of being entertaining, out of being controversial. That's what he does, it is who it is, and he makes no apologies for it. Funnily enough, the sales for his Christmas DVD actually shot up after he made the "public sector workers should be shot in front of their families" joke. Also - Top Gear is the most watched TV programme on the planet. It's the same with comedians who make controversial jokes - it's what they do.

Bernie Ecclestone is in charge of one of the biggest sports in the world. I really don't think he is doing himself, or the sport, any good by making comments like that. Is it any wonder some teams are struggling to find sponsors? I don't blame a company for not wanting to be involved with a sport run by a man who jokes about people being killed.

When you are in charge of the biggest sports in the world that is worth billions - it really doesn't do the product any good making stupid comments. There's a difference between being an entertainer and being a business man. Bernie is not the entertainer. If it has been taken out of context - well, after the tenth time you'd think he would have learnt to keep his trap shut.

I don't see how you can really compare the situations to be honest, but there you go...

Edited by JHS18, 02 April 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[Massa]

You like one, you don't like the other, what they say is hardly different, and none of it makes any difference on how F1 is run or perceived.  Boy, all those companies that won't do business with FOM and Ecclestone, man, I couldn't even begin to list them all...

...because I can't think of any.

I don't see how what they do as a profession changes the difference between making light of killing people, which they both do, other than that one's a TV show you like and one made a TV deal you didn't.

You're entitled to try to justify whatever you want to justify and call out whatever you want to.  It was a general comment, not even aimed at you directly.  We never let Ecclestone have a chance to be joking, we never try to understand why Ecclestone might be saying these comments, what he intends, what impact it really has, and if Ecclestone is serious, we never try to say, well, his perspective is really controversial, but let's test if it has merit.  Judgment after judgment.  All you ever get.

I'm so tired.  I don't even know what I wrote.  Put me on ignore, please.

[Rainmaster]

Massa, on 02 April 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Anyway, everyone and everything is supposed to be a social activist these days.  I'm not going to tell them they should or shouldn't run this race.  If they do, I can't wait to watch it, finally an 8 AM start time I can see.  If they don't, well, good for them.  I stand by any decision they make because quite frankly I don't know anything about the situation and I'm not going to pretend I do, and I'm definitely not going to pretend that F1 going or not going makes any difference whatsoever politically or anything like that.  If it isn't safe, don't go, if it is safe, go, and I'm not going to judge safety from here.

There's a difference between accepting a certain level of "Western ignorance" about foreign matters (a reasonable position that more people should take) and shutting your eyes to obvious things completely (an unreasonable position which nobody should take). If we are to believe the reports, and there is no clear reason not to, then we know that protesters are being shot, and that the race will be targeted. You don't need to know too many more details to say "okay, probably not a great idea to go" based on that.

Massa, on 02 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

You like one, you don't like the other, what they say is hardly different, and none of it makes any difference on how F1 is run or perceived.  Boy, all those companies that won't do business with FOM and Ecclestone, man, I couldn't even begin to list them all...

...because I can't think of any.

I don't see how what they do as a profession changes the difference between making light of killing people, which they both do, other than that one's a TV show you like and one made a TV deal you didn't.

You're entitled to try to justify whatever you want to justify and call out whatever you want to.  It was a general comment, not even aimed at you directly.  We never let Ecclestone have a chance to be joking, we never try to understand why Ecclestone might be saying these comments, what he intends, what impact it really has, and if Ecclestone is serious, we never try to say, well, his perspective is really controversial, but let's test if it has merit.  Judgment after judgment.  All you ever get.

I'm so tired.  I don't even know what I wrote.  Put me on ignore, please.

I don't agree with JHS that Bernie's various stupid comments (some of them were clearly jokes or simply to generate conversation, but many of them were definitely stupid, too) actually make that much difference from a business point of view.

I do agree that the latest one I posted was different to that one of Clarkson's you mentioned. Clarkson was clearly joking with his comment, he wasn't "making light of killing people" because he was talking about something which hadn't happened and would never happen. It was a completely satirical answer. The fact it needed explaining to anybody depresses me, and is in fact the same thing you criticised JHS for not long ago: people disliking somebody so therefore every comment they make is awful. Obviously, the guy has made some jokes in bad taste but that didn't even come close. How is Bernie's comment different? Show me the satire in his statement, it just isn't there, and even if it was some kind of "joke" answer, it would be in awful taste and a stupid thing to say because why would you joke about something like that if you were in Bernie's position? Sprinkler systems, yes; Hitler getting things done and Bahrain's human rights, no. This from someone who likes Bernie and is indifferent to Clarkson!

[Massa]

That's all fair enough.

[dribbler]

Bahrain Grand Prix = No.

[Quiet One]

dribbler, on 03 April 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Bahrain Grand Prix = No.

Yup, nope.

[HandyNZL]

New piece by Mike Lawrence up on Pitpass, here: Bahrain

Thought provoking as usual.  Even from our little straw poll here, you can't help but agree with him.

Edited by HandyNZL, 03 April 2012 - 02:33 PM.
Ok so it's 2:30am here and I wrote "pole" instead of "poll" - sue me already...or Sarah, or Mary, or Candice....

[Quiet One]

HandyNZL, on 03 April 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

New piece by Mike Lawrence up on Pitpass, here: Bahrain

Thought provoking as usual.  Even from our little straw poll here, you can't help but agree with him.

Me likes it.

Simples.

[HandyNZL]

Quiet One, on 03 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Yup, nope.

Quiet One, on 03 April 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Me likes it.

Simples.

I really wish you'd keep your posts shorter....you're taking up so much space and bandwidth

Next you'll have Brad complaining he is getting a sore neck again....

[Quiet One]

HandyNZL, on 03 April 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I really wish you'd keep your posts shorter....you're taking up so much space and bandwidth

Next you'll have Brad complaining he is getting a sore neck again....

I've been watching too many interviews of Massa and Kimi...

[HandyNZL]

lol

[LabradoRacer]

Bernie's so ridiculous, it's not even funny.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/75228.html

For f*ck's sake, all the teams should get together to shout a categorical "NO".

[dribbler]

I think it's clear from Bernie and the teams that the Grand Prix will or will not happen now.

[Massa]

Do all the teams have to act as one?  Let's say the teams meet and they say "no we will not go," but HRT or some other team like that can't afford the "commercial implications" Ecclestone has mentioned, or legitimately don't see this as a safety issue for whatever reason, or are blinded by the temptation of being the only team to enter the race and therefore take the full 43 points, and now we have a 2005 United States Grand Prix in Sakhir.

Not likely, I suppose, but I only mention it out of curiosity...could it happen or do the teams just go majority say yes/no so the race is either on or off?  Because if one team goes, wouldn't all the other teams be excluded/banned for skipping a round (I seem to recall that being a rule, a rule that US F1 apparently violated by Stefan and Prodrive didn't, which is just confusing...maybe I made that rule up, maybe they made that rule up, I don't know), whereas if they all don't go (difference between going and racing), they'll just all be fined or whatever?

In which case, HRT could send a staff-less team to Sakhir, skip practice, skip qualifying, not get dispensation to race, abandon whatever equipment they sent, and then be the only team left for the remainder of the season and therefore World Champions.

Right?

[dribbler]

Massa, on 11 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Right?

Technically. But that won't happen and you don't need me to tell you why because you know already. But I like the hypothesis. I thought about it already.

To much at stake for an opportunist team to try and capitalise. No that they would get that far anyway; Bernie will call this, then all the teams will follow.

Right now, it looks like my next door neighbour will be back home by Monday/Tuesday next week before heading to Spain in a few weeks. (Moo Rouge race team member that he is).

Edited by dribbler, 11 April 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Rainmaster]

Well, if we are to believe the word of John Yates....sorry I can't even finish that sentence it's too much of a ridiculous concept to believe the word of John Yates. Forget his handling of phone hacking allegations, this guy is under contract from the Bahrain Government for crying out loud. Thanks for that totally independent and credible source, FIA.

[LabradoRacer]

http://www.formula1....12/4/13209.html

I can't believe they're going ahead with the race.

[HandyNZL]

In other words:

We are the FIA.  We write down stuff on paper and others are told they have to do what we just wrote on the paper, otherwise we can...um...what can we actually do?  Oh yeah, give them a fine that they have to pay.....the mug's will pay that for sure, even though the law probably says they don't have to...ha...bloody mugs I tell you.  And if they don't pay, we tell them they can't drive cars and stuff...ha ha...unless of course they just want to go hire some race track and drive on it I suppose.  Ha! Bet they wouldn't have anyone else to drive against though, apart from all those other guys in all those other race car categories we have nothing to do with...I mean, have so far been unable to commercially benefit from....

But our point is this, and let us be clear.  We printed, on a nice clean piece of white A4 environmentally friendly recycled paper (of which was shredded using a big hungry diesel powered shredder, then put through a chemical process, bleached, and then put through a paper mill, which uses about a small towns worth of electricity to produce paper every day, then it was transported hundreds if not thousands of miles by a stinky diesel truck, and then stored in an air conditioned (aka legionnaires disease spreading device) stationary shop, until Miss Clark in administration purchased it, but not before using the local bus service that still runs around on 1985 buses, so in short, very very environmentally friendly), the Formula One 2012 Race Calendar, and this, my friends, is the only thing anyone needs as protection from a bullet, or angry young folk wanting a fairer country to live on.

Maybe they should write what they want down on paper, and then they will see the royal family wet their under pants....

Like my dear old Nan used to say, there is nothing mightier than the quill....

Sincerely,

Jean

[Quiet One]

As Damon Hill has clearly, unmistakable, stated, he sees no problem in going forward with the Bahrain GP, except for the fact that is completely unacceptable to go there so, yes, he fully backs FIA decision to go there no matter what.

Thanks, Damon, for your firm stand on this.

http://www.totalf1.c...hrain_decision/

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 13 April 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

As Damon Hill has clearly, unmistakable, stated, he sees no problem in going forward with the Bahrain GP, except for the fact that is completely unacceptable to go there so, yes, he fully backs FIA decision to go there no matter what.

Thanks, Damon, for your firm stand on this.

http://www.totalf1.c...hrain_decision/

Don't worry, he'll change his mind 2morrow AGAIN

[Rainmaster]

I'm not convinced this is the last we'll hear about this, whatever the FIA says.

Anyway, if everyone does end up going they've definitely left themselves open to some seriously bad PR and potentially worse from a safety point of view, if things do escalate. Hope it all goes smoothly.

[JHS18]

Completely wrong decision in my opinion.

Thankfully, this is a Sky race so I don't have to see the predictable mess this causes. No doubt the outcome will not be a pretty one.

Shame. I can see arguments for and against going, but I really don't think they should be going.

Complete shambles about F1's indecisiveness over this...

Edited by JHS18, 13 April 2012 - 04:45 PM.