104 replies to this topic

[Massa]

EDIT: Forget it.

[Rainmaster]

I'm sorry if my post frustrated you Eric and you feel like you are repeating yourself. But you can take solace in the fact that I feel exactly the same (and just think, it's even worse for me since I'm completely right ).

[Massa]

Your post didn't frustrate me.  How I went about replying to your post frustrated me.

[JHS18]

Debate just now on Question Time about F1 in Bahrain. Interestingly, all of those on the panel agreed that the race should not go ahead.

I think FIA and Bernie need some perspective.

Apparently Sky have been denied access into the country...interesting. The Royal family is clearly a BBC supporter.

Edited by JHS18, 19 April 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[Rainmaster]

I might watch the QT discussion on it, although I'm pretty sure it will annoy me.

Guardian: http://www.guardian....ideo?CMP=twt_fd

[yurp]

I've been deliberately reading but not posting here - it's obviously a sensitive topic - and rightly so.

Some very thoughtful posts from everyone and also some slightly less than thoughtful analysis of other people's views going on.

I can understand where both sides are coming from...

Eric, one thing that I think is slightly naive in your stance is the belief that sport can be divorced from politics. Nothing can ever be fully separated from ideology/belief and therefore political agendas.
What shoes you buy, to what shaving foam you use. Every decision you make in life has a political bearing, no matter how small. If you choose to buy cheap shoes made in Burma then that has an effect (no mattter how small) on the political situation in that country. If you use more petrol than you require by driving around picking up girls, then that has an effect on polution (a political hot topic), the price of gas, the lobbying ability of oil companies and OPEC nations domestic political stability. Everything is connected.

Regarding sport specifically... Sport has been political since the days of the Greek olympiad, through to the Berlin games during WW2 through to now. For how many years did the US and Russia gain/loose political reputation over how many gold medals they picked up during the cold war?

By taking a stance (whichever it may be), F1 will affect the political situation in Bahrain. If they chose not to go it would have be seen as a success for the protesters. As it is and if things go smoothly, it will be seen as a success for the leadership.

So that leads F1 to the decision. Whether to go or not and inevitably to the political stance either decision represents.

Now, many people (understandably enough) see the protesters as the aggrieved majority in a country that is set up against them. The press certainly portrays it that way. There is plenty of evidence that it is indeed the case. On statistics alone - the ruling Sunni elites account for 30% of the population yet hold all important positions in the military / business etc - that can't be good for political representation.

Saying that, if we split Britain along class lines, we can see that there is hardly any representation from the lower classes in the houses of parliament. In China, if you're not a party member you can only rise so far in any role before party members will be promoted before you. And if you're not Han, things are hard. So really, no country in the world can really claim that it truly TRULY represents it's population to the full.

But coming back to Bahrain - just because China / Brazil and everywhere else have representation issues too is not a good reason to ignore those issues.

Now onto the argument of 'safety'. If we try (I think unsuccessfully) to ignore the political argument and limit the discussion to one on safety, then we fall into the mindset that Bernie would like everyone to follow. This, to me, is a red herring. But let's follow the line anyway. In order to ensure safety for everyone involved security will have to be tightened as it is in every country hosting a GP. As it certainly is in Brazil every year. So proponents of the "let's race in Bahrain" argument see no real issue here. As you yourself have said, the protests would be going on if F1 goes or not. But there is a significant escalation of both protests and security enforcement planned as a DIRECT result of F1 being in Bahrain. The protesters have vowed to launch more action over this weekend than would be normal and the rulers have vowed to significantly increase security presence in Bahrain. That leads to an undeniable increase in guns in the hands of less experienced security personnel and more Molotov c#cktails in the hands of protesters, thus increasing the chance of bloodshed.

So while the safety of the drivers and F1 staff may well be assured, the net result of that is an increase of the chance that citizens of Bahrain on both sides of the political divide will be harmed. And that is happening as a DIRECT result of F1's presence in the country.

For all the above reasons, for me, F1 should not be in Bahrain this year. They should have removed the race from the calendar and publicly stated that they were opting out on the grounds that no race is worth risking the lives of Bahrain's citizens whether they be policemen or protesters. Had they done that, they would also have been able to maintain as politically neutral a stance is is possible - accepting that any stance is political (however remotely) as I noted above.

Saying all that. As an F1 fan I will watch the race. I will watch the drivers looping the track and I will probably enjoy it. I will admittedly have a hard time marrying my actions with my beliefs, but I'll at least know that my viewing won't be counted as support for F1's decision or the Bahrain govt. because they don't count torrent viewers when totting up total viewing figures anyway.

Eric - I do sympathise with your views and agree with much of what you've said, but I think a view of sport divorced from the context of the world in which it takes place is somewhat naive and, in the end, doomed to failure. Sorry buddy.

Sorry if it sounds condescending to call your stance naive - it's certainly not meant in that way.

EDIT typos

EDIT EDIT please don't ban me, I wouldn't last a day on hunger strike

Edited by yurp, 20 April 2012 - 02:11 AM.

[dribbler]

The Grand Prix will pass without incident. We will all forget about this by Monday. The publicity machine has fitted turbo chargers.

Next race, please.

[yurp]

dribbler, on 20 April 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

The Grand Prix will pass without incident. We will all forget about this by Monday. The publicity machine has fitted turbo chargers.

Next race, please.

also true - I don't expect anything untoward to actually happen at or around the race itself.

[JHS18]

Main story on the BBC today is about Bahrain.

Said elsewhere - this is a weekend where F1 will get more news/tabloid attention than it probably would at any other time. Unfortunately for the wrong reasons...

Edit - tweet from Adam Cooper "Riot response vehicles, guys with guns, car searches, x-ray machines at gate, metal detectors, the work"

Edited by JHS18, 20 April 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[JHS18]

A reported 58 people in the main grandstand for FP1. 58. Is this f*cking joke of a race even worth holding?

Reports Force India may pull out of FP2 for some reason.

[dribbler]

JHS18, on 20 April 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

A reported 58 people in the main grandstand for FP1. 58. Is this f*cking joke of a race even worth holding?

Yes. People on the TV watch it, including me. I don't care how many are not there. Their loss.

JHS18, on 20 April 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Reports Force India may pull out of FP2 for some reason.

Oh my God. Even they are beginning to believe the media bull sh!t that they were 'attacked'.

Wrong place, wrong time, that was all.

Let's just race.

[JHS18]

dribbler, on 20 April 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Yes. People on the TV watch it, including me. I don't care how many are not there. Their loss.

If only 58 people turned up to a European race, it would have long since vanished off the calendar...

Telegraph reporting Sauber too were caught up in an incident last night.

[HandyNZL]

Would you watch a soccer, sorry, football match on tele if only 58 watched it in the stands?  Would it be the same experience to watch on TV with out a crowd cheering etc etc?

Obviously only 58 people in Bahrain don't own a gun, and they were allowed into the race track

[freaky2]

I think that the protesters would want F1 fans to watch this race, unless of course they are too engaged fighting for freedom and equality in Bahrain to watch TV. If the protesters can in some way hinder the race, display a banner, whatever they are up to I guess they'd prefer the world to see it. Even if nothing happens the journalists there will keep us duly informed.

[hookedon-f1]

I know that a lot of people have said a lot about not wanting this race to go ahead... I for one was very Happy to be sitting in my seat watching the cars race around...... and on the question on the amount of people in the stands during fp1.... it's because they were too busy waiting in line for autographs and sleeping on the cushions provided