80Th Running Of The Grand Prix D'endurance
Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:36 PM
Anyway, here is Dumas' earlier moment:
Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:41 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:01 PM
Is the Am class a bad idea?
It has raced at Le Mans in two years. Both years, there has been a serious crash caused by an Am car. Last year Rockenfeller, this year Davidson. Not a good statistic.
I'm all for allowing gentlemen drivers and rich amateurs having a go - but when they're potentially a danger to other drivers on a track that is dangerous anyway - you're asking for trouble.
I'm not sure what the solution is.
Edited by JHS18, 16 June 2012 - 07:47 PM.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:16 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:20 PM
Now Toyota have it all to do again.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:34 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:43 PM
If you're debating amateur drivers being noddies, you'd better debate pro drivers being noddies too. Perhaps they shouldn't be out there too.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:44 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:45 PM
Yes, occasionally accidents happen, but they're more aware of what's going on than amateurs. You wouldn't let gentlemen drivers run at the Indy 500 in this day and age for instance.
Edited by JHS18, 16 June 2012 - 07:46 PM.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:50 PM
And for what ever reason they were lucky enough to be so. Be it a rich Daddy having opened doors for them, or a helpful handful of sponsors along the way.
Just because someone is not paid doesn't equate to less skill or less experience.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 07:55 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:08 PM
I think in this case, we'll agree to disagree.
They interviewed Perazzini and he said that he saw Davidson, but "misjudged" the distance. At a track at Le Mans, when speeds are that high, that is a bloody dangerous "misjudgement" - and if you're making that kind of error, you shouldn't be racing in the first place. The Pro GT drivers know how to give space to prototypes...
Le Mans is one of the biggest races on the planet. You can't be allowing "gentlemen" drivers to turn the race into a farce by dangerous driving.
How many more accidents do there need to be before they realise the Am class is just a dangerous grid filler?
Edited by JHS18, 16 June 2012 - 08:09 PM.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:27 PM
You'll find that more professionals cause crashes, or have crashes than so called amateurs. Anyone, no matter the pay packet, can misjudge a closing cars speed. I could pull three such incidents out of my arse, being Schumacher on DC in the rain at Spa(?) - you know, the famous "you tried to kill me!" incident, Webber on Kovalinen, and Schumacher on B-Spec Senna just this year.
What I am saying is, is that the guys in the "amateur" class all have to meet the same driving standards as those in the paid race seats to even have their entries accepted. They also have to pay for repairs or aid in the running of the team. They don't have bottomless pockets, so they will race conservatively NOT to crash, whereas the paid guy will just go for it.
Perhaps the pro should be more aware of what others might do around him....afterall he is the professional, and professionals should know all, right? And they're amazing gods that can't make errors, so if they can't make errors then they should only ever pass where they know it to be 1000000% safe because they are more qualified as you say.
But that all goes against the truth, which is that they're all human, and humans as we are, we make errors. Some of us get paid to make errors. Some of us pay for our errors. That is the only difference. It is not, in this case, like we are comparing a student driver with someone that has been racing motorsport for fifteen years or more. The amateurs in this case have been racing just as long as the pro's in most instances. Maybe even longer. And some have probably driven more powerful, faster cars, than some of the younger professionals...i.e. they own and race Group A rally cars, or 1970's/80's F1 cars, or a Porsche 962.
If you took away the amateurs, you do not make the race any more safe. They will still crash, and Le Mans being Le Mans, may very well suffer a fatality.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:29 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 08:47 PM
Audi hold a 1-2-3 with Rebellion 4th and 5th. Audi's only task now is to get their three leading cars home without any problems - but I'd absolutely love it if Rebellion managed to sneak onto the podium.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:00 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:40 PM
Marty Roth and Milka Duno disagree.
I won't restart the debate you don't want to have, and I respect that because there's no point in trashing a thread about a good race, but I'll just say that I'm of the belief that these accidents are a product of having multiple classes of cars going all sorts of different speeds than they are with the drivers. You have huge speed differences in cars, low visibility, a lot going on around you, a lot of things being said into your ears, you can't know the closing rates (whereas in IndyCar or something, you know the basic closing rate of the car...you can't possibly memorize the closing rate of every different LMP if you're GT traffic), you have a huge track where you probably do have to prepare yourself for corners and get in a zone because memorizing the layout and doing it perfectly is hard...
I'll take one of the rich guys who has run Le Mans many, many, many times and has years in sports car racing over someone like Brian Vickers who is a pure rookie, even though he's a professional. I just think these wrecks are the product of multi-class racing, not multi-licensing levels. Take the money out, and there goes the entire history of sports car racing. You'd also lose guys like Chris Dyson, a pro-am driver who actually overtook Guy Smith as the lead driver at Dyson this year in Sebring.
You have fast cars and slow cars and when fast cars close on slow cars **** happens.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 09:45 PM
I caught a bit of it. Sucks to see DeltaWing done.
Corvettes still sound good. Corvette and Viper is going to be fun and I hope Viper will be at Le Mans next year. 1999 class winner, I believe the Oreca Viper was, and I also think Viper (the factory outfit) has won 15 of 16 ALMS races it's run, so there's that, too. Corvette sounds mean. Viper sounds meaner.
Murphy Prototypes...did we expect that? Were we supposed to? Weren't they a running joke for the last like...eight years with some phantom entrant that never shows up? Wow. Good for them.
How do these guys run at night? You can't see...anything. I don't think you can call amateur drivers the real danger here.
But seriously, the night stuff, it's terrible TV because the lights obscure everything, but when you get to see it on-board, very cool. Very, very cool.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:40 PM
I think the amateur driver debate is something to have another day, as you say, I don't want to take this off topic, but I just find it alarming when an Am driver says "oh I misjudged" - I mean, I appreciate that it is very, very difficult, otherwise I'm sure we'd be all doing it. I appreciate that accidents happen in multi class racing too, but man, this is the big league. It isn't some computer game where you can reset it. You make a "misjudgement" and you can very easily injure or kill someone. Last year with Rockenfeller, this year with Davidson - both lucky to escape without serious injury.
But then that's part of the risk of racing.
Seems you cursed them Eric. Murphy suffered a puncture and have lost the lead of the class. But no, they're doing a great job. I like Hughes as an ex BTCC guy. One of the guys I grew up watching race in BTCC.
I'm enjoying the race. It has had some good moments, particularly earlier when both Toyotas were in contention. Now it is Audi's to lose effectively, but that's how it goes. Great to see my Rebellions doing so well in fourth and fifth. I hope they hold off the recovering #3.
Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:13 PM
Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:14 PM
Posted 17 June 2012 - 12:58 AM
Just the other day I discovered this really cool and useful site called Google.
Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:06 AM
Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:07 AM
Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:10 AM
Now the feed is showing a scruffy, drunken man who needs to button up his shirt and may or may not be presenting this coverage. He's speaking a language that isn't English or Spanish and because it's French.
Live timing may be lying but I believe the top two cars are on the same lap now, both Audis. Might have some Audi-on-Audi action.
Posted 17 June 2012 - 01:12 AM
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