208 replies to this topic

[Ikyrotz]

Massa, on 02 September 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

2. Maldonado did not jump the start.  The lights were out when he started moving.  I think he made a mistake, and thought he jumped the start, but he actually timed his mistake perfectly and did not jump it.

I am not sure about that. At the very moment lights went out, he moved sideways to go around the car ahead of him. This implies we was already moving before that. It would be nice to see the cars from the top with the lights to see how it really went.

[Massa]

LabradoRacer, on 02 September 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Good as Kimi's move on Schumi was, was it when Schumi lost his 6th gear? He slowed down a lot during the move.

He lost sixth gear?  No wonder.  I assumed Räikkönen got a burst (maybe KERS), didn't realize I was being deceived by Schumacher slowing.  Thanks.

[Quiet One]

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. All this was obviously made to benefit Vergne. Don't you think it was funny that ecerything was made to ensure Romain and Hamilton starting together? What a farce!

I do not consider F1 a sport anymore, ya hear me?

They all should be punished except Alonso.

Button for excess whinning and then winning. That is confusing for us non English speakers.
Vettel, because he said last race "somebody do something!" and then Romain did. If that is no team orders then I'm Jessica Rabbit. What? That they are not in the same team? Please quote chapter and verse of the regulations where it states that orders are illegal ONLY WHEN THEY COME FROM THE SAME TEAM. I'll be waiting.
Kimi for not winning and doing a better overtaking move at Eau Rouge than Webber vs Alonso last year and disproving TF1's James and his claims that he was out of contention unlike Hamilton. Go back to Dirt racing, you sour faced drunkard!
Schumi, for reckless driving, enough to ruin his own race but not enough to ruin Vettel's. Talk about incompetency. These rookies...tsk tsk...
- Massa for doing his best race and still look mediocre.
- Webber...damn, I like the guy. But still to the bonfire with him.
- Romain, because he should be investigated by Hercules Poirot, rather than the stewards. I do not think "attempted murder" is considered a breach of the regulations, though.
- Di Resta, because he is British which means that everybody keeps talking about the guy despite proving again and again that he is mediocre at least compared against Hulk, whihc is clearly better without being earth shattering himself.
- Maldonado and Hamilton, just cause. Even when we do not know exactly what they did wrong they DO know. Kille them. End of story.
- All the rest can go to hell as well.
- No, not Glock and Pic and Pic and Glock. That was fun. Otherwise the race would have been a boring processional ace *yawn* *zzzz* *snort* *cough wheeze*

There.

FFS!

[Ikyrotz]

LabradoRacer, on 02 September 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Good as Kimi's move on Schumi was, was it when Schumi lost his 6th gear? He slowed down a lot during the move.

Maybe, but I doubt it, since he was able to keep Hulkenberg behind him for quite a while yet. I think Kimi had planned the whole thing the previous lap when he wasn't able to make his pass stick. Did Michael mention the gear problem before his last stop or after it?

[Quiet One]

Oh, and one more thing:

DAMN YOU STEWARDS YOU WERE UNABLE TO HANDLE OUT A SINGLE DAMN PENALISATION BEFORE THE END OF THE RACE WITH HALF THE GRID UNDER INVESTIGATION!

That means that for the next 24 hours the safest way to look at the final standings is to read the finishing standings from bottom up.

That's it. I have never seen anything  like this in my whole life of watching F1 and for the record I've been following it since the Wright brothers won the first race at Kitty Hawk, barely beating the Montgolfier brothers. And never, EVER witnessed something as ludicrous as this race.

FFS!

[AleHop]

Spa could hardly gone worse for Alonso so I won't comment on the race.

I let Andrés comment on my behalf.

Seriously!

[LabradoRacer]

Massa, on 02 September 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

He lost sixth gear?  No wonder.  I assumed Räikkönen got a burst (maybe KERS), didn't realize I was being deceived by Schumacher slowing.  Thanks.

Not sure if you're sarcastic. Anyway, Kimi himself had problems with his KERS.

[LabradoRacer]

Ikyrotz, on 02 September 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Maybe, but I doubt it, since he was able to keep Hulkenberg behind him for quite a while yet. I think Kimi had planned the whole thing the previous lap when he wasn't able to make his pass stick. Did Michael mention the gear problem before his last stop or after it?

I don't know when he mentioned it, but I read about his gear loss on lap 40. There were lots of times when he lost heaps of time, including during Kimi's move. I don't think it would have made a difference anyway. His tires were shot, courtesy the car's USP.

[BradSpeedMan]

Ikyrotz, on 02 September 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Maybe, but I doubt it, since he was able to keep Hulkenberg behind him for quite a while yet. I think Kimi had planned the whole thing the previous lap when he wasn't able to make his pass stick. Did Michael mention the gear problem before his last stop or after it?

Yes, I think Michael lost 6tth gear after Kimi overtook him...

[Massa]

LabradoRacer, on 02 September 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Not sure if you're sarcastic. Anyway, Kimi himself had problems with his KERS.

No, I truly didn't know.  A good third of the race broadcast is (or are...that's ugly...third is sounds fine...but is commercials doesn't...but are commercials sounds fine...but third are...nope...) commercials here, I have to keep it quiet while others are asleep, and I'm me, so I miss a ton of information.

[LabradoRacer]

Ikyrotz, on 02 September 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I am not sure about that. At the very moment lights went out, he moved sideways to go around the car ahead of him. This implies we was already moving before that. It would be nice to see the cars from the top with the lights to see how it really went.

Yep, it was clear to me he jump started. Charlie Whiting was himself shaking his head immediately.

[Massa]

I think Maldonado saw or was told about Kobayashi smoking and was really eager to get out of his line just in case he didn't go...but I still think it's possible he actually balked his jump and got going after the lights.  I can see what Ikyrotz is saying, though, that the car may have been moving before the cameras show it moving.  It wouldn't be a Grand Prix without a Maldonado penalty and Maldonado himself thinks he jumped it.  I'd love to see the overheard shot with the lights overlapped, too.

[freaky2]

Before commenting on the race I must say: Andrés, you've really taken to ranting! That said, I agree with you.

On to the race, the start reminded me of that 'out of contention' comment, a 40 points lead doesn't sound so big when you crash out at the start.

Apart from that, how long has it been since we've had a big pile-up at the start? Because it felt like ages.

On another note, Vettel drove a great race, I have to hand it to him. Oh and Schumi was really stupid with that move.

Last but not least, Button drove a perfect race. I'd love it if there was another race like this before season end

[Quiet One]

freaky2, on 02 September 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Before commenting on the race I must say: Andrés, you've really taken to ranting! That said, I agree with you.

On to the race, the start reminded me of that 'out of contention' comment, a 40 points lead doesn't sound so big when you crash out at the start.

Apart from that, how long has it been since we've had a big pile-up at the start? Because it felt like ages.

On another note, Vettel drove a great race, I have to hand it to him. Oh and Schumi was really stupid with that move.

Last but not least, Button drove a perfect race. I'd love it if there was another race like this before season end

Eeek! There's a girl again in this forum! Mods, do something! Everybody, quick...delete all those porn links!

@Eric: on the replay it seemed to me that Maldonado was already moving by the fourth light. On his defense, I'd say that it was more a case of survival instinct considering what happened afterwards than actual cheating.

[LabradoRacer]

A bit belated, but I'm glad nobody, especially Alonso, was injured in the pile up.

[AleHop]

LabradoRacer, on 02 September 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

A bit belated, but I'm glad nobody, especially Alonso, was injured in the pile up.

True a race or two out for Grosjean would be Heaven's Justice!

[Quiet One]

Nah, I wasn't worried about Alonso.

He is immortal, you see?

[JHS18]

LabradoRacer, on 02 September 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Alonso out!

Geez, I'm not sure how you can be celebrating that.

Okay, you don't have to be a fan of every driver, but after an accident as scary as that one, my main thought was that they were all alright first rather than "Yes Hamilton's out!"

Stupidity on its finest level.

[JHS18]

Anyway, otherwise a good race I thought. Nasty first corner incident and relieved all involved were okay, as others have said before that could have been really really bad. The onboards from Alonso and Kobayashi are particularly frightning.

Gutted for Sauber. Was really hoping Perez and Kobayashi would have a good race today, and then they get taken out by some idiocy on the part of others, just terrible luck.

Great drive by Button, but strong performance by Vettel and Raikkonen too (told you Lotus wouldn't win here ) - also impressed with Hulkenberg, Schumacher and the Toro Rosso boys.

Some great overtakes and action, but a lot of stupidity as well, particularly at the start. I've defend Maldonado in the past as I'm tired of the jokes at his expense...but if he really did jump the start that is pretty stupid really. Same applies for Grosjean - I like him, he's got great speed, but that was a d*ck move.

Wow, as I write that apparently he has been given a one race ban. Who is going to replace him in Monza?

Ah...d'Ambrosio.

Edited by JHS18, 02 September 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[BradSpeedMan]

JHS18, on 02 September 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Geez, I'm not sure how you can be celebrating that.

Okay, you don't have to be a fan of every driver, but after an accident as scary as that one, my main thought was that they were all alright first rather than "Yes Hamilton's out!"

Stupidity on its finest level.

LOL!!! we all could see Alonso was ok.... enough of calling ppl stupid on here dude....

[Massa]

One-race ban for Grosjean.  Certainly, his move was terrible, but it's something I've seen done before on starts or even in the middle of the race.  As far as I know, Grosjean was not in bad standing with the stewards for any other incidents (i.e. Maldonado, who has a reputation).

I also think there is, as often is the case in sports officiating, an over-reaction due to the consequences, rather than the action that caused them.  My point being, if Grosjean made that move, and Hamilton had backed off through the grass and everyone avoided an accident, Grosjean would be racing in Monza.  They penalize based on what the move caused, and not the move itself, which is normal for officiating but still, I have to find something to disagree with and I don't think I'm too off-base.

It was a stupid move, though.

[Quiet One]

BradSpeedMan, on 02 September 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

LOL!!! we all could see Alonso was ok.... enough of calling ppl stupid on here dude....

I agree with the imbecile here.

As for the ban, and speaking as an Alonsosteric blind fanboi, it's just STUPID!

Romain, as mentioned countless times before, has an obvious spatial awareness issue or perhaps his smile takes too much space on his mirrors, but other than that he did nothing but the usual boneheaded move many drivers do at the start.

It would have (perhaps) deemed worthy of a reprimand, certainly some slaps in the face from his felow competitors but a ban???

What did he do that wasn't done a gazillion times?

[LabradoRacer]

JHS18, on 02 September 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Geez, I'm not sure how you can be celebrating that.

Okay, you don't have to be a fan of every driver, but after an accident as scary as that one, my main thought was that they were all alright first rather than "Yes Hamilton's out!"

Stupidity on its finest level.

When I first saw the incident, I didn't see what a close shave it was. Didn't get to see the replay immediately either as my net connection froze up. When I saw the replay later on, I did post that it's good nobody got injured.

But you do have a point. When it's a crash, the first thing is to think of the drivers' safety. Well, I can't undo my mistake, can I?

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 02 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

I agree with the imbecile here.

no worries nincompoop

[Ikyrotz]

BradSpeedMan, on 02 September 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

LOL!!! we all could see Alonso was ok.... enough of calling ppl stupid on here dude....

For a moment I was scared, since Alonso was just sitting in the car not moving, and marshals gathered around his car. Fortunately he was ok.

[AleHop]

I agree with the race ban but I think some others should have got a race ban in the past. Stupid moves are now out of control with younger and younger drivers coming from other categories where they race banzai. F1 is about surgical precission. Guys like Maldonado or Grosjean HAVE TO LEARN that one way or the other.

Glad the first race ban in ages is here and I hope it shows up again as soon as somebody does an unnecesary stupid move once and again.

[AleHop]

BTW, Eric of course the penalty has A LOT to do with the consecuences. If Grosjean had crashed into a barrier alone or Maldonado kept crashing alone again and again it would be their and theirs team problem.

[LabradoRacer]

Grosjean deserves his penalty.

[Rainmaster]

The only reason Grosjean hasn't been criticised more, compared to say Maldonado, is because he smiles more and seems like a such a nice guy. Remember that one way or another, Grosjean has been involved in 7 incidents at the start of GP's this year. This is not a question of a one off mistake but rather, like Maldonado, a fundamental problem with his driving (although there is much more hope that Romain can recognise his mistakes). On that basis, as a series of events and a very serious incident in itself, I find it hard to argue the decision of the stewards. It's hard but fair and might just teach him that you can't win on the first lap.

This race perfectly showed how 40 points is not the lead some people said it was. Also that with a win Kimi could really be in contention for this title. Button winning was the best Alonso could have hoped for after Grosjean's assassination attempt. Other than that, an exciting race with plenty of nice battles. I especially enjoyed Kimi v Schumi! But Vet/Web and Pic/Glock was good too. Vettel was impressive this race, not only in his racecraft but in his direction of the team from the c#ckpit too ("everybody has DRS so we're all equal, drop me into clear air if you can"). Hulk did good, too.

I'll never understand why Hamilton posted the telemetry picture. Way to make yourself seem even more toxic to other teams and hurt your negotiating position even more.

[JHS18]

BradSpeedMan, on 02 September 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

LOL!!! we all could see Alonso was ok.... enough of calling ppl stupid on here dude....

Firstly, when have I called someone stupid on here other than earlier?

My reaction may have been a bit severe, but it does frustrate me when so called "fans" cheer when drivers are involved in accidents - particularly as one as nasty as that. To celebrate that they've crashed when you don't know the full scale of any potential injuries is a bit ghoulish. You may as well watch a demolition derby if you want to see crashes.

I apologise for the over-reaction, but surely you must understand what I mean?