211 replies to this topic

[BradSpeedMan]

 AleHop, on 07 October 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Your words will come back to bite you!!!

I don't care... I'm having too much fun now

[AleHop]

 DPR, on 07 October 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

How many WDC does Vettel need to win before the people realize the kid is pretty good (and great value!)

That's the normal controversy when you drive the best car for the best team of the moment. It happened in the past and will happen in the future.

[DPR]

this like shooting fish in a barrel baiting Alsononites after the failure!
Better learn the the blues boys

[The Shadow]

 DPR, on 07 October 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Better learn the the blues boys

Prost-Peugeot?

[Quiet One]

Well, well, well. Look at this. A man can't go to bed for a few hours without the sour grapes brigade chiming in

I hope you guys are joking, right?

As for the initial phrase that started Brad's debate about the incident: "As much as I hate Kimi now...etc.". Brad, read what I wrote past the word "Kimi"...

[Insider]

 AleHop, on 07 October 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

That's the normal controversy when you drive the best car for the best team of the moment. It happened in the past and will happen in the future.

And it won't change until he wins one in another car. Since 1950, there has only been nine, I believe. Fangio [Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Maserati, Ferrari], Jack Brabham [Cooper, Brabham], Graham Hill [BRM, Lotus], Jackie Stewart [Matra, Tyrell], Niki Lauda [McLaren, Ferrari], Emerson Fittipaldi [Lotus, McLaren], Nelson Piquet [Williams, Brabham], Alain Prost [Williams, McLaren] and Schumi [Benetton, Ferrari].

[AleHop]

[Massa]

I have no idea what I've been reading in this thread, but...

1. I can't see how the Ferrari will win a race this year without bizarre circumstances.  But I also couldn't see how Alonso would lose the WDC without bizarre circumstances, and bizarre circumstances just happened.

2. The Red Bull's nose looked different to me today...anything going on up there?

3. McLaren had a big opportunity in the WCC today and didn't take it.

4. Pit stops...McLaren makes a mistake on the pit stop and does it in 3.7.  Ferrari can't pull a 3.8 cleanly.  Red Bull even got a 2.6 to match McLaren's 2.5.  It may not matter, but if the WDC goes down to the end and Alonso somehow stays in this (i.e. Vettel DNFs soon), that's just one more thing.

5. Didn't think Kobayashi had it in him to just go and drive a normal race.

6. Some will say Massa did what he had to, but he really didn't.  He has to take a huge paycut, not reprove his abilities.  Still happy for him but not ready to say his career is saved.

7. Grosjean...that was just bad.  He didn't learn.

8. Alonso and Räikkönen was just the consequence of having cars do a standing start straight ahead of a series of tight turns.  There was a lot of contact in 1-2, including Räikkönen with Pérez, Hamilton with Räikkönen, and some near-contact with Schumacher and Ricciardo.  And none of that was at the start when it gets very, very cluttered.  We kick and scream when Grosjean gets penalized for contact at the start, then we kick and scream when they let it go.  Uniformity does not mean the inability to look at scenarios on a case-by-case basis.  Räikkönen did nothing wrong, and Alonso did nothing wrong.  It just happened and I won't deny that the FIA probably puts more trust in there being nothing wrong because of who was involved, and that kind of sucks, but I really just don't see what the fuss is about.  Two cars came together.  Should we start the races single-file with a rolling start like after a safety car?  I don't think so.  It's just a consequence of racing hard early and having Massa and Button get great starts while Webber got a poor one.  Not much more too it and it was nowhere near as offensive as some of the other stuff we've seen.

[Ikyrotz]

Räikkönen-Alonso incident was clearly no ones fault, Alonso just got very unlucky in that his tire got punctured by that small hit. They are (front) tire to (back) tire, Alonso squeezes Kimi off the track a bit and then runs over his front wing, can't see how that is Kimi's fault in any sense.

Quite a boring race apart from the start, the only other moments I can remember right now are Perez' attempts on Lewis which lead him to beach the car, and Kimi and Lewis fighting for 5th after Lewis' pit stop, some nice, respectful fighting there from both of them.

EDIT: I also remember the emergency broadcast test on SpeedTV as the final lap was about to start, around 3.30am.

Edited by Ikyrotz, 07 October 2012 - 03:20 PM.

[Quiet One]

 Ikyrotz, on 07 October 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Räikkönen-Alonso incident was clearly no ones fault, Alonso just got very unlucky in that his tire got punctured by that small hit. They are (front) tire to (back) tire, Alonso squeezes Kimi off the track a bit and then runs over his front wing, can't see how that is Kimi's fault in any sense.

My point, exactly. I said I hated Kimi merely because Kimi's wing was the one that punctured Alonso's car, not because I thought he was actually to blame.

Back to Grosjean, one in his favor and one against him.

1) On his defence: The one-race ban happened for an incident that was basically like this one, except that one finished a lot worse. At Suzuka, Alonso ended up un the middle of the road, facing the wrong way. What if some other car collected him in a full frontal crash? What if a serious pile up followed? The ALO RAI incident was something both drivers clearly did not want to happen. Much less the consequences of it.
Unlike Alonso and Kimi, though, Grosjean was already involved in many incidents before that race. But if those are aggravating circumstances, they should have been dutifuly noticed and somehow passed to Grosjean BEFORE the one race ban. If the guy had been reprimanded at at least some of his previous startup antics, the one race ban would have seemed a lot fairer.

2) On his detriment: no matter what happened in the past, now he should have taken notice by now. And botice he took, as he accepted the ban, apologized and made a billion interviews saying that he was sorry and that he learnt his lesson. So, either he is prone to race startup amnesia (a rare condition indeed) or, what we all fear now, he is simply a nice guy, quite competent when no car is around but genetically unable of handling a proper start. He seems to just lack the judgement and spatial awareness to  handle  himself in the middle of the pack with cars close around him.
That is a very damning lack of skill, regretfully. Is not that Romain is not a great promise of a driver in every other aspect. Is that this aspect is fundamental to become a driver in first place. It's like being Senna, but colour blind and thus unable to tell a green light from a red light.

[BradSpeedMan]

 Quiet One, on 07 October 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

My point, exactly. I said I hated Kimi merely because Kimi's wing was the one that punctured Alonso's car, not because I thought he was actually to blame.

ooooooohhh

u should've said that sooner

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 07 October 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Quiet One]

 BradSpeedMan, on 07 October 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

ooooooohhh

u should've said that sooner

You silly blind Alonso hater!

I said "I hate Kimi. It was a race incident. Tough luck". If I had thought Kimi was actually to blame I would have said something like this:

"Clearly, if you check this not anymore available video on  youtube, you will find that, at precisely 1:32.0005%apple//mazzacane.com Kimi is smiling, or perhaps that's not Kimi smiling, but a large portion of sushi. In any case, Martin Whitmarsh has to go. He keeps sabotaging Jenson so Lewis can win but then decides  that the longer Jenson can race the longer he can spend more time with Jessica Michibata so he sabotages Lewis which is also sabotaging McLaren and of course Massa is helping him because he is managed by Nicholas Todt which means FIA (Flavio Is Alonso). And Sebastian does look like Tyrion Lannister"

WellI actually said that last sentence, and I'm not taking that back. I am not sucha good loser as to deal with it it without a low  blow or two

[BradSpeedMan]

 Quiet One, on 07 October 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

You silly blind Alonso hater!

I said "I hate Kimi. It was a race incident. Tough luck". If I had thought Kimi was actually to blame I would have said something like this:

"Clearly, if you check this not anymore available video on  youtube, you will find that, at precisely 1:32.0005%apple//mazzacane.com Kimi is smiling, or perhaps that's not Kimi smiling, but a large portion of sushi. In any case, Martin Whitmarsh has to go. He keeps sabotaging Jenson so Lewis can win but then decides  that the longer Jenson can race the longer he can spend more time with Jessica Michibata so he sabotages Lewis which is also sabotaging McLaren and of course Massa is helping him because he is managed by Nicholas Todt which means FIA (Flavio Is Alonso). And Sebastian does look like Tyrion Lannister"

WellI actually said that last sentence, and I'm not taking that back. I am not sucha good loser as to deal with it it without a low  blow or two

[BradSpeedMan]

sneaky bugger!  Alonso knew exactly what he was doing!!! Look how his checking out exactly where Kimi is...

Attached Files

•  1504342.jpg   162.41K   10 downloads
•  11049587.jpg   22.29K   12 downloads

[Quiet One]

 BradSpeedMan, on 07 October 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

sneaky bugger!  Alonso knew exactly what he was doing!!! Look how his checking out exactly where Kimi is...

Yeah, now I see it...not!

Your point being? Are you trying to demonstrate that Alonso deliberately allowed Kimi to puncture his tire because he wanted to  know what it feels to make a mistake?

All I see is a couple (3, actually, or a "Mormon's couple") of blurry images which prove that at some point in their lives Alonso's car and Kimi were close to each other and that Nando knows how to tilt his head slightly to the left, whereas Kimi knows how to do the same to the right which might be useful should they ever become teammates as  that implies complementary skills. It also proves that Kimi's head looks suprisingly like a blackhole from afar.

Do you think that it beckons for a one race ban for Alonso?

[Ikyrotz]

 Quiet One, on 07 October 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

(3, actually, or a "Mormon's couple")

ROFL!

[Massa]

He was just trying to get his face in his side mirror.  Wanted to make sure nothing changed and he still had two separate eyebrows.

[Massa]

 Quiet One, on 07 October 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yeah, now I see it...not!

Your point being? Are you trying to demonstrate that Alonso deliberately allowed Kimi to puncture his tire because he wanted to  know what it feels to make a mistake?

All I see is a couple (3, actually, or a "Mormon's couple") of blurry images which prove that at some point in their lives Alonso's car and Kimi were close to each other and that Nando knows how to tilt his head slightly to the left, whereas Kimi knows how to do the same to the right which might be useful should they ever become teammates as  that implies complementary skills. It also proves that Kimi's head looks suprisingly like a blackhole from afar.

Do you think that it beckons for a one race ban for Alonso?

This whole post is tremendous.  Good job.

[Massa]

Points scenarios going into Korea.  The crappy formatting of this terrible table is much more Korrhea than anything else.

[pabloh20]

 AleHop, on 07 October 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Some slow mo video of the start

Presumably, this is to prove that Alonso had no need whatsoever to move over the left at the start of the race and push Kimi out wide???

[freaky2]

Lots of crazy talk in here, the only thing I'm gonna say is that I don't see how having an accident in a race is "throwing a championship away", since we all basically expected that Alonso would be hard pressed to keep his lead going into the end of the season. Point being, yes, he might not win now, but he hasn't thrown anything anywhere.

[Quiet One]

 freaky2, on 07 October 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Lots of crazy talk in here, the only thing I'm gonna say is that I don't see how having an accident in a race is "throwing a championship away", since we all basically expected that Alonso would be hard pressed to keep his lead going into the end of the season. Point being, yes, he might not win now, but he hasn't thrown anything anywhere.

Hear hear!

[AleHop]

 pabloh20, on 07 October 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Presumably, this is to prove that Alonso had no need whatsoever to move over the left at the start of the race and push Kimi out wide???

This is to prove that some forum members have to visit an optemetrist ASAP.

[Rainmaster]

I hate Kimi and Alonso But it was a racing incident if I ever saw one. As for Grosjean, we should have known he was an idiot the moment we realised that he's always smiling.

Well done Kobayashi! It really was great to see the crowd go wild. Not convinced he saved his seat though. He just isn't consistently impressive and it's always the mark of a middling sort of driver when they perform best at their home GP or around contract time. Happy for Massa too, but the same thing applies yet much more severely. But at least with Massa we're starting to get a lot of evidence that his problems are more his mentality and confidence rather than his accident, based on his post race interviews where he talked about his loss of self-belief, etc.

Red Bull had a new rear wing here and clearly it seems to be working. Vettel looks well on the way to being possibly the most underrated three time World Champion ever Nevertheless, it's all still to play for.

Other than that, I found the race itself quite boring for the most part. It lacked any sense of a story with Vettel being sure to win and the other main protagonists missing from the front. Also, it's very hard to engage with the race when hungover. I should definitely keep drinking excessively but make sure I have water when I get in. Yep, that's the best option.

Looking forward to seeing if Grosjean can stop himself from careering into someone at the next race, but I fear he will and then the crowd will jeer rather than cheer, and no doubt it'll be bad for his career, at the next race. Does anybody know where it is?

Edited by Rainmaster, 08 October 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[BradSpeedMan]

 Quiet One, on 07 October 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yeah, now I see it...not!

Your point being? Are you trying to demonstrate that Alonso deliberately allowed Kimi to puncture his tire because he wanted to  know what it feels to make a mistake?

All I see is a couple (3, actually, or a "Mormon's couple") of blurry images which prove that at some point in their lives Alonso's car and Kimi were close to each other and that Nando knows how to tilt his head slightly to the left, whereas Kimi knows how to do the same to the right which might be useful should they ever become teammates as  that implies complementary skills. It also proves that Kimi's head looks suprisingly like a blackhole from afar.

Do you think that it beckons for a one race ban for Alonso?

[BradSpeedMan]

 Massa, on 07 October 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Points scenarios going into Korea.  The crappy formatting of this terrible table is much more Korrhea than anything else.

my, how things have changed...

[DPR]

If Alonso would have kept his pussy mouth shut, then this would simply be a racing incident. But as soon as he said another driver could/should lift off to let him through, then he implied that by yielding there would have been room. Hence, he chose NOT to yield (and misjudged Kimi's commitment), he chose to endanger his lead -  and paid the price.
It stops being a racing incident the moment one of the protagonists blames someone else.
You can't have it all ways! You can't say that if someone yields then there is enough room, but then assume that anyone BUT yourself yields,  that is.

This isn't the boring years anymore where you put in on pole and scamper off into the distance for the win. These days you may have to do a little "racing" to win.
How can anyone expect to learn from their mistakes, if they don't admit to making any? I think he's reached his ceiling now. He's quick, but wheel to wheel,  Vettel and Hammy have shown the way.

FYI, I'm no Alonso - hater. I'm just a moaner-hater. Now shut up and drive!

[Insider]

 DPR, on 08 October 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

If Alonso would have kept his pussy mouth shut, then this would simply be a racing incident. But as soon as he said another driver could/should lift off to let him through, then he implied that by yielding there would have been room. Hence, he chose NOT to yield (and misjudged Kimi's commitment), he chose to endanger his lead -  and paid the price.
It stops being a racing incident the moment one of the protagonists blames someone else.
You can't have it all ways! You can't say that if someone yields then there is enough room, but then assume that anyone BUT yourself yields,  that is.

This isn't the boring years anymore where you put in on pole and scamper off into the distance for the win. These days you may have to do a little "racing" to win.
How can anyone expect to learn from their mistakes, if they don't admit to making any? I think he's reached his ceiling now. He's quick, but wheel to wheel,  Vettel and Hammy have shown the way.

FYI, I'm no Alonso - hater. I'm just a moaner-hater. Now shut up and drive!

What you said +

[pabloh20]

 AleHop, on 08 October 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

This is to prove that some forum members have to visit an optemetrist ASAP.

You talk about the spec in other people's eyes when there is a log in your own

[pabloh20]

 Rainmaster, on 08 October 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

I hate Kimi and Alonso But it was a racing incident if I ever saw one. As for Grosjean, we should have known he was an idiot the moment we realised that he's always smiling.

Well done Kobayashi! It really was great to see the crowd go wild. Not convinced he saved his seat though. He just isn't consistently impressive and it's always the mark of a middling sort of driver when they perform best at their home GP or around contract time. Happy for Massa too, but the same thing applies yet much more severely. But at least with Massa we're starting to get a lot of evidence that his problems are more his mentality and confidence rather than his accident, based on his post race interviews where he talked about his loss of self-belief, etc.

Red Bull had a new rear wing here and clearly it seems to be working. Vettel looks well on the way to being possibly the most underrated three time World Champion ever Nevertheless, it's all still to play for.

Other than that, I found the race itself quite boring for the most part. It lacked any sense of a story with Vettel being sure to win and the other main protagonists missing from the front. Also, it's very hard to engage with the race when hungover. I should definitely keep drinking excessively but make sure I have water when I get in. Yep, that's the best option.

Looking forward to seeing if Grosjean can stop himself from careering into someone at the next race, but I fear he will and then the crowd will jeer rather than cheer, and no doubt it'll be bad for his career, at the next race. Does anybody know where it is?

Honestly, you young people know nothing.  Your best option would have been to stay up and keep drinking until after the race, then the hangover would have only affected coronation street, or whatever you watch