32 replies to this topic

[Insider]

HRT is being sold. No surprise there. Bad news for the boys and girls who worked so hard an such a disastrous car. With Tony Texeira, a long time suitor in dire financial trouble. I'm wondering if we'll see VW Audi Group getting involved. I'd like to see Porsche in F1 but the geographical location [Madrid] won't be enticing for the German bar giant but that's a minor point. All I hope is we see a serious contender coming to the table. No doubt, Dave Richards and Flabbio will be nosing around.

[Massa]

I'm not sure what interest is out there, but I have to wonder if it's one year too early for any kind of auto manufacturer who might want to come into play.  Building a 2013 program just for huge rules changes in 2014 isn't going to be something they'd want to do, whether they want to start with HRT's facilities or their own when the time comes.  I look at Caterham: pretty colors, Renault engine, high-profile partners through Tune Group's B2B connections, and some really good staff joining for this year.  They've still gone nowhere.  I'll design you a great house, but you aren't buying it if I make the foundation out of manure.

[Rainmaster]

Yeah, I don't think it makes sense to enter the sport now (regulations, Concorde Agreement etc) so I'd be surprised if we see someone with an actual proven track record coming in.

Edited by Rainmaster, 12 November 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[JHS18]

Absolutely zero chance in Porsche doing Formula One any time soon. They're committed to Le Mans for '14, and are using their resources on that.

Audi are also committed to Le Mans till at least 2013 and probably beyond, whilst also doing their DTM programme.

VWAG have said many times they don't have interest in Formula One. Honda have said they'll reconsider, but that probably won't be for a few years if it happens at all.

Aston Martin are reportedly for sale. So I doubt they have the cash to do F1. Plus Prodrive has been turned down so many times by F1, Dave Richards would be stupid to try again.

I wondered when the silly rumours about what big manufacturer would supposedly be buying HRT would start, and sorry to break it to you guys, but there won't be one. Yes, whilst Formula One is the best  for promoting a brand in terms of worldwide audience, fact is is that it is far too expensive and nowhere near as road relevant as doing something like Le Mans is. Just ask Toyota.

But I know none of your guys give a damn about any other form of racing so will ignore that, so carry on...

Edited by JHS18, 12 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Insider]

This is a silly time to sell as Eric says but someone may just want to get their feet wet for a season. Bernie has been consulting to Hyundai for some time now and whether they still have an interest or not if anyone can do a deal, the Magic Midget can. Aren't 12 teams the minimum requirement under the Sky deal?

[Massa]

To James:

VWAG have said many times they do have an interest in F1, as well as saying many times they don't.

VWAG have made it clear that they want the Volkswagen brand to be racing in something, and VWAG representatives have met with Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, etc. in recent years to discuss those options.  They did not commit to any, but the desire to have the Volkswagen brand in racing is not gone.

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Volkswagen could enter F1 in the near future.  In 2013?  Doubt it.  By purchasing HRT?  Doubt that, too.  They're open to it.

VWAG will use Audi to work on diesel technology, and Porsche to work on petrol technology, at Le Mans.  This makes sense.  Volkswagen is trying to be huge and sell to the masses.  Audi and Porsche at Le Mans do not preclude Volkswagen from racing in F1, or any other series with less road relevance.

Besides, there's a little something in the 2014 regulations that adds more road relevance:

The turbos in 2014 will avoid "turbo lag" by using an electric motor that will take excess power to compress air.  Basically, it will be an electric supercharger working with the turbocharger using the normal method of taking the exhaust heat.  The electric motor/generator will also be able to be powered by excess power in the turbo (i.e. before cornering), and that power can be used for other applications.

(I think.  I'm not very technical but it sounded to me like it does something like that...it may not work with the traditional turbo; it may be in place of it.  I know this is something BMW has been working on with road cars, and Renault were very excited about it in the context of F1.  You can get superchargers like that after-market, but they aren't in production cars yet).

I want to remind you of why the FIA killed the World Sportscar Championship/Group C.  Manufacturer interest in the WSC far outweighed manufacturer interest in Formula One at the time, and the FIA didn't want that.  Don't think that the attitude has changed, and that the FIA won't take measures to help direct some traffic into F1 again now that the FIA controls world sports car racing once more.  It's not a coincidence that the 2014 LMP1 regulations heavily favor smaller, turbocharged engines; the FIA want to see the engine suppliers of Le Mans also supplying F1.  Todt's said that exactly in the last months or so.

I don't think the HRT happenings will be the impetus for a VWAG entrance, but I'm not ready to call that dead.

[Insider]

Keep a weather eye on China. That's were a rescue could come from.

[Quiet One]

Sad news. These guys worked really hard from the bottom. Times are too short in nowadays F1 to let any independent team to blossom.
I don't understand why 'great, the small group of highly commited people failed and it's out. Now let's pray for a big corporation to come and make this the new Ferrari" is something people even thinks about. As if they never learned from the past experiences from Toyota, Honda, Peugeot, Porsche et al (Hey, I should even include Mercedes  here).  Except for Honda, none of them did anything more remarkable than Tyrrell, except firing more people, hiring even more people only to fire them later, talk a lot of corporate rubbish, try to find some of the same old guys that have been forever in F1...

People need shining lights more than hard fought ideals , sometimes.

[JHS18]

Insider, on 13 November 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Keep a weather eye on China. That's were a rescue could come from.

And then no doubt Ma Qing Hua will get a drive...what really is the point?

This will sound unduly harsh whoa re at risk of losing jobs, but honestly, I wouldn't be in the least bit sad if we were missing two cars next year. Same applies if Marussia, and to a lesser extent, Caterham went too. They don't really add much other than just being back markers and have not made any real progress over these three years.

Quality rather than quantity.

[BradSpeedMan]

JHS18, on 13 November 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

And then no doubt Ma Qing Hua will get a drive...what really is the point?

This will sound unduly harsh whoa re at risk of losing jobs, but honestly, I wouldn't be in the least bit sad if we were missing two cars next year. Same applies if Marussia, and to a lesser extent, Caterham went too. They don't really add much other than just being back markers and have not made any real progress over these three years.

Quality rather than quantity.

Even though they are right at the end of the backmarker field, it takes enormous resources and finances just to race in this day and age. In short I think they deserve some respect, even when they provide "cucumber" moments within the race....

[Quiet One]

BradSpeedMan, on 13 November 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Even though they are right at the end of the backmarker field, it takes enormous resources and finances just to race in this day and age. In short I think they deserve some respect, even when they provide "cucumber" moments within the race....

Oddly enough, I agree again with you.

What the hell  is wrong with you?

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 13 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Oddly enough, I agree again with you.

What the hell  is wrong with you?

I had the same sentiments about you in the Texas thread

[Massa]

I've always liked HRT most of the three bottom teams because they always got criticized extra.  

JHS18, on 13 November 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

And then no doubt Ma Qing Hua will get a drive...what really is the point?

This will sound unduly harsh whoa re at risk of losing jobs, but honestly, I wouldn't be in the least bit sad if we were missing two cars next year. Same applies if Marussia, and to a lesser extent, Caterham went too. They don't really add much other than just being back markers and have not made any real progress over these three years.

Quality rather than quantity.

You mean in the same way Force India got drives for Karun Chandhok, Narain Karthikeyan, and Armaan Ebrahim?  Or how US F1 signed two drivers for 2010, Tennessee's very own José María López and stock car stand-out James Rossiter of Alabama?

If they give the guy a Super License, let him race.  It's not like he's taking a Red Bull seat, and it's not like these small teams are able to attract great talents.  The fact is that a highly-touted prospect like Ricciardo didn't make the HRT challenge outside of the bottom three, and respectable guys like Liuzzi and de la Rosa haven't, either.  So what's the difference if Ma Qing Hua is in the seat?  Until they build a better car, it means little.

And if it takes a driver like that to open the doors to "new money," I'm all for it.  Getting Asia interested in motor racing is something very important to F1 and to auto manufacturers.  Having money coming from places other than Europe helps F1's sustainability (that's ECON 100...you want your money coming from as many different sources as possible in case one has a big issue...), and if you could do anything to generate some fan interest in China, it would open the door for auto manufacturers to consider F1 involvement because that's such a huge market for cars.

Now, do I really think one back-marking Chinese team with one back-marking Chinese driver is going to suddenly make a world of a difference?  No, of course not.  But if they can make a start in markets like that, it's good for F1 because you can build from that.  The old boy's club will only be around so long, and their old money goes with them.  It all comes down to making new friends while keeping the old.

[JHS18]

At the danger of this going massively off topic, I'll try to avoid having too big a rant.

But look at Ma Qing Hua's career results. He has not won a race in ANY form of single seaters, ever. Not even some lowly Chinese division of Formula Renault, a series not known for producing world calibre drivers. However, he did win the Chinese Touring Car Championship, a championship that could not be further removed from Formula One if you tried.

It is remarkable that HRT have found somebody even LESS qualified than Narain Karthikeyan. Karthikeyan in comparison looks like a future World Champion, given he was pretty handy in A1 GP, a championship a certain Nico Hulkenberg won.

If he got a drive, for me it would call the question of what the point of the Super License was for.

I mean, obviously they wouldn't be given out for talent any more, would they? He has done nothing to deserve one, and for all we know will be a bigger danger to other drivers since old Yuji Ide, the last driver to get permanently banned from Formula One.

And I'll say the same kind of thing about Max Chilton. Ignore the crap the British press pedal - he's a buy-rider, pure and simple. He has not won a championship in anything he has driven in, and has only won about two GP2 races. Yet he's more likely to get promoted to Formula One than Robin Frijns, the Renault 3.5 champion.

How is that right? It annoys me so much that these teams are prepared to bring such hopeless drivers in, and for what? It is evident they won't be chasing performance any more. So they'd just be struggling along till they finally and completely run out of money, and given how big a loss Marussia made last year, that won't be far off. The term "quit whilst you're ahead" springs to mind, but perhaps "quit whilst you're behind" is more relevant for these teams.

Eric - you say what does it matter? Well, once upon a time, Fernando Alonso and Mark Webber started their careers at Minardi. Raikkonen and Massa started at Sauber, and so on. Many of the guys at the head of the field these days came from, to put it crudely, crappy teams.

So it does matter! The fact that these teams aren't giving young, promising rookie a chance unless they come with millions and millions of sponsorship is depressing, and in the long term will be doing more harm to the sport than good. The sport is in danger of losing a whole generation of possible race winners and championship contenders through them simply not getting the opportunity. But that's perhaps another issue completely, and one that is quite hypocritical of me to mention given I've already said it would be best if these teams disappeared...

Before they used to say no matter how little funding you have, if you're good enough, you'll end up in F1. These days it is not like that.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of these teams, I'd love more than anyone for them to take a step forwards and prove why the FIA was right to select them as the three new teams. But so far, they haven't proved that.

There's no shame in not being successful in F1 - far more teams have bowed out of the sport unsuccessful than those who have been successful - look at the likes of BMW, Toyota and Honda to name but three. But there comes a point where in HRT's position, where you have to wonder what on earth they're really doing in the sport, other than being lapped.

I suppose it isn't really their fault on the basis they entered F1 with the FIA having told them there would be a budget cap that never came...but again, that's another issue.

Edited by JHS18, 13 November 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Massa]

Sauber were never this bad, so I'll only take your Minardi argument and say...

You can be mad about Ma Qing Hua having a hypothetical ride with a Chinese team that is yet to exist, but if you compare him to the realistic options, no, it doesn't matter at all.  The top talents were never going to be considered.  For every Alonso or Webber that Briatore gave Minardi on loan, there were tons of Baumgartners and Bruinis, Friesachers and Kiesas, Yoongs and Mazzacanes...

The fact is, no matter which 24 drivers are out there, each race will have a winner, and each season will have a WDC...I've yet to see anyone who was massively impressive in the junior series never get an opportunity in Formula One.  Sure, there were some champions like Aleshin or Wickens or Soucek who didn't, but you know what?  They never looked to be F1 material.  Look at someone like Sébastien Bourdais or Robert Kubica; both were passed on a few times but still managed to make it to F1 because they continued to demonstrate that they were something special (Kubica being more special in terms of F1, and Bourdais being a better illustration because he had to wait half a decade after the International F3000 title to get there).  The best drivers really do rise to the top, and the ones who don't get the breaks were the ones who wouldn't have ever gotten enough breaks in F1 to be successful...

I look at the 2002 F1 grid, for example, and I see Yoong as the only guy who had no business being there.

I look at the 2012 F1 grid and I see Karthikeyan as the only guy who has no business being there.

In 2002, I count 16-18 mid-fielders.

In 2012, I count 17-19 mid-fielders.

In 2002, I count 4-6 drivers who at that time were very capable of winning and getting podium finishes with some regularity.

In 2012, I count 4-6 drivers who are very capable of winning and getting podium finishes with some regularity.

Moreover, in 2012, I see 7 drivers who have potential to develop into even more (Pérez, JEV, Ricciardo, di Resta, Hülkenberg, Grosjean, and Maldonado...some ride-buying clown you know...)

In 2002, I see 3 drivers who people could have reasonably seen as being potential future guys (Button, Davidson, and Webber).

How are we worse off now?

[Rainmaster]

The standard of driving talent on the grid at the moment is quite high; 6 WDC's and lots of promising drivers coming up - Maldonado, Perez, Bottas, Grosjean, and probably some more on the fringes of F1 that I don't know about. I think there are probably less "pay drivers" than at many other times in the sport's history, and furthermore the standard of pay drivers is generally higher too (with the shift towards professionalism F1 has seen over the decades, even since the 90's). I think rookies need to be given opportunities but the sport is in good shape for talent for the next 5 years at least.

But yes, it's frustrating when good or great or just better drivers than the ones who are signed can't get a seat, but that frustration shouldn't be laid at the teams' doors or at the driver who ends up getting the seat. A team is rarely going to sign a less qualified driver out of choice, that just wouldn't make sense*. They only do it out of necessity. A shame but an economic reality which will always exist in F1 and always has.

The point is sometimes you find a "pay driver" who wasn't particularly impressive in lower categories, but just happens to be extremely fast in F1 and helps the team progress (see Maldonado and Perez). Would Ma Qing Hua be a case of that? Almost certainly not. Then again, you could probably put an Ayrton Senna like talent in that car and you would only end up getting a car which was a second off the pace instead of 3. So their driver choice honestly doesn't bother me that much at all and I wouldn't be at all concerned about the sport running out of talent; these things just have a way of sorting themselves out with the best drivers generally getting an opportunity eventually.

I'd only be worried if I saw a team like Mclaren, Ferrari or Red Bull being dependant on "driver money". Other than that, and F1 being an expensive business, I would totally expect it from other teams whose businesses aren't as diverse or prosperous. As for the new entries lack of success you will notice they are all still racing each other, basically. To some people that seems to say that they are not trying, not enthusiastic or not intelligent. To me, the fact none of them have achieved any notable successes makes it difficult to criticise any of them, it just points to the fact F1 is an exceptionally tough sport to crack and the sport itself probably needs to have another think about its approach to cost control mechanisms.

*Precisely why Ferrari's decision on Massa is far more frustrating to me as a fan than anything HRT do, after all that's a car that can actually do quite a lot in the right hands.

[Massa]

I like George's view.

[AleHop]

I find it a really good exchange of POV from you all. You have said it all and very well said.

In my opinion HRT was born dead. It wasn't backed up by a Spanish rich guy with passion and knowledge about motorsport. Initially there were good people but in the end the project was commanded by a bunch idiots, unscrupulous... Pedro de la Rosa, Cuquerella and the rest of the people are working hard but it's hardly appreciated if the house doesn't have some good foundations.

[HandyNZL]

Yeah, nah....HRT was / is handicapped by their engine, but above all, it is a cash flow thing.  If the peso's aren't coming in, then you cannae expect results - not in this day and age.

Aryton Senna was a pay driver for Lotus.  He brought in money to pay...his salary ($5m if memory serves for that first season).  Lotus had to find other money to run the team.

If you want competitive cars from P1 to P24, then you have to go down the works/customer car route.  Torro Rosso was Minardi, yet Torro Rosso, it can be argued, is far and away better than Minardi ever was.  There is motorsport passion behind STR, but behind that is money.  Minardi only really had passion.  Real big money was never there.

The Saubers, Force Indias and Toro Rosso's of the sport will continue to sway between salaried and pay drivers.  They'll never challenge for the overall titles as they simply can not afford the drivers, nor the design staff, nor the manufacturing equipment; at least not like McLaren, Ferrari, and Red Bull can.

Mercedes will falter by the way side soon enough.  It is yet another team run by a board.  That is not how you go motor racing.  OK, so you argue that Ferrari is run by a board, sells road cars etc etc like Mercedes, but the point of difference is that Ferrari sells road cars so that they can go racing.  Merc is racing so they can sell road cars.

Leyton House crashed and burned (devolved back into March) after the team principle was caught up in some dodgey dealings, but the person that was put into run the team was an accountant.  And that was the nail in the coffin for guys like Adrian Newey and a few other very successful F1 mechanics / designers to walk out the door.  Accountant's do not understand motorsport.  (I wonder if they understand any sport???)

And who currently owns HRT?  A bunch of accountants.

They have no passion for motorsport...they aren't a Minardi whom is passionate about his motorsport and his team...that's how Minardi lasted all those years - "because goddammit, we're going racing this weekend".  HRT was more "sorry, no money in this weeks budget for shocks...oh yes, well, you'll just have to miss Australia then....but we will be having our corporate function at the bank conference room, which reminds me to buy that full scale ice sculpture of the race car"

Caterham is doing a Minardi...they are a true race team, and have made significant infrastructure purchases so that they can grow and get better.  Will they ever surpass Sauber?  Most likely not.  Do we not get behind them because they are not Italian?  Not Ferrari's little cousin, twice removed, needs us to cheer for them?  Who is Tony Fernandes?  Are we passionate for him?  Has the whole Lotus-not Lotus-Caterham thing put everyone off him and the team?  Would they have faired better if they just were named Strike Racing?

I guess what I am saying is, do you see the bottom three teams failing because they always populate the last three rows, or do you see them failing, because quite frankly, dear, I don't give a damn (about them)?  Is your apathy for the teams clouding your judgement as to their results and what the have achieved?  (such as closing the gaps to the teams ahead, still actually being on the grid, negotiating deals for different engines etc)

Young blood will always surface in F1.  In days of old, you got there on talent, or you were an owner driver (history books are full of them)...then the guys with the talent went to the teams at the front (McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Lotus), and the guys with suspect talent, but big bucks, filled the remainder....then in the late 90's and early 2000's, F1 was able to pay it's own way....but buzzing around in the lower formulae were guys needing to bring cash to the team to secure themselves a drive...no-one was going to take a chance on some unknown in F3000 and wonder who was going to pay for crash damage...so the guys coming up in the late 90's and early 2000's expected to pay for their drives if they were in the mediocre, somewhat talented pile.  Only those exceptional talents, such as Hamilton, Alonso, and Vettel were ever guaranteed a free ride (as it were) once they made it to F1.

Apart from HRT, we don't see pay-drivers as they once were in the late 70's, 80's and early 90's.  That is, the guys are doing only what Ayrton Senna did, and that is, bringing in money to pay for their own salary, for the opportunity to have a logo put on the cars.  Glock is no slouch; Pic is not too bad; Kovalinen is a GP winner; Petrov is pretty handy; de la Rosa was reasonable...  The calibre of the drivers is still there today, as it was in the non-paydriver era's, it's just that the business model around F1 has changed to one that says mid-field and back require driver + sponsor.  End of.

Now that reminds me...have to write out a $2million cheque for Mitch Evans so he can race in GP2 next year....

[Quiet One]

HandyNZL, on 14 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Yeah, nah....HRT was / is handicapped by their engine, but above all, it is a cash flow thing.  If the peso's aren't coming in, then you cannae expect results - not in this day and age.

Aryton Senna was a pay driver for Lotus.  He brought in money to pay...his salary ($5m if memory serves for that first season).  Lotus had to find other money to run the team.

If you want competitive cars from P1 to P24, then you have to go down the works/customer car route.  Torro Rosso was Minardi, yet Torro Rosso, it can be argued, is far and away better than Minardi ever was.  There is motorsport passion behind STR, but behind that is money.  Minardi only really had passion.  Real big money was never there.

The Saubers, Force Indias and Toro Rosso's of the sport will continue to sway between salaried and pay drivers.  They'll never challenge for the overall titles as they simply can not afford the drivers, nor the design staff, nor the manufacturing equipment; at least not like McLaren, Ferrari, and Red Bull can.

Mercedes will falter by the way side soon enough.  It is yet another team run by a board.  That is not how you go motor racing.  OK, so you argue that Ferrari is run by a board, sells road cars etc etc like Mercedes, but the point of difference is that Ferrari sells road cars so that they can go racing.  Merc is racing so they can sell road cars.

Leyton House crashed and burned (devolved back into March) after the team principle was caught up in some dodgey dealings, but the person that was put into run the team was an accountant.  And that was the nail in the coffin for guys like Adrian Newey and a few other very successful F1 mechanics / designers to walk out the door.  Accountant's do not understand motorsport.  (I wonder if they understand any sport???)

And who currently owns HRT?  A bunch of accountants.

They have no passion for motorsport...they aren't a Minardi whom is passionate about his motorsport and his team...that's how Minardi lasted all those years - "because goddammit, we're going racing this weekend".  HRT was more "sorry, no money in this weeks budget for shocks...oh yes, well, you'll just have to miss Australia then....but we will be having our corporate function at the bank conference room, which reminds me to buy that full scale ice sculpture of the race car"

Caterham is doing a Minardi...they are a true race team, and have made significant infrastructure purchases so that they can grow and get better.  Will they ever surpass Sauber?  Most likely not.  Do we not get behind them because they are not Italian?  Not Ferrari's little cousin, twice removed, needs us to cheer for them?  Who is Tony Fernandes?  Are we passionate for him?  Has the whole Lotus-not Lotus-Caterham thing put everyone off him and the team?  Would they have faired better if they just were named Strike Racing?

I guess what I am saying is, do you see the bottom three teams failing because they always populate the last three rows, or do you see them failing, because quite frankly, dear, I don't give a damn (about them)?  Is your apathy for the teams clouding your judgement as to their results and what the have achieved?  (such as closing the gaps to the teams ahead, still actually being on the grid, negotiating deals for different engines etc)

Young blood will always surface in F1.  In days of old, you got there on talent, or you were an owner driver (history books are full of them)...then the guys with the talent went to the teams at the front (McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Lotus), and the guys with suspect talent, but big bucks, filled the remainder....then in the late 90's and early 2000's, F1 was able to pay it's own way....but buzzing around in the lower formulae were guys needing to bring cash to the team to secure themselves a drive...no-one was going to take a chance on some unknown in F3000 and wonder who was going to pay for crash damage...so the guys coming up in the late 90's and early 2000's expected to pay for their drives if they were in the mediocre, somewhat talented pile.  Only those exceptional talents, such as Hamilton, Alonso, and Vettel were ever guaranteed a free ride (as it were) once they made it to F1.

Apart from HRT, we don't see pay-drivers as they once were in the late 70's, 80's and early 90's.  That is, the guys are doing only what Ayrton Senna did, and that is, bringing in money to pay for their own salary, for the opportunity to have a logo put on the cars.  Glock is no slouch; Pic is not too bad; Kovalinen is a GP winner; Petrov is pretty handy; de la Rosa was reasonable...  The calibre of the drivers is still there today, as it was in the non-paydriver era's, it's just that the business model around F1 has changed to one that says mid-field and back require driver + sponsor.  End of.

Now that reminds me...have to write out a $2million cheque for Mitch Evans so he can race in GP2 next year....

100% d'accord.

[Insider]

Rumours regarding possible suitors for HRT from friends close to F1 this morning. One of them works with Bernie: 1. Aarbar funding Mercedes junior team! 2. TATA resurrecting Jaguar F1- well..... 3. Toyota and Mahindra both looking at buying Aston Martin and a cheap F1 team could be a heavy marketing tool for the marque.

I think: TATA have their feet under the table in F1 now and Jag sales are flagging - again! Mahindra are more than capable of getting in to anything from aerospace to toiletries! I think buying F1 AND getting into F1 in 6 months is a bit of a stretch though. Toyota on the other hand, may just launch a pre-emptive strike with rattlings about a Honda return to F1.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Jaguar and Toyota back in F1.... now where have I heard this before?

I mean this would be about as stupid as bringing two ex WDC's back....

You would think that Toyota would have learned from their last travels down the pit lane.....

[JHS18]

Sorry to sound like some kind of DOF here, but.

Toyota are busy already. They will soon be entering the second year of their LMP project (of which they won three races to Audi's three in the World Endurance Championship). Plus, they've been pretty open about their desire to do the World Rally Championship with the Yaris. Additionally, if my memory serves me correctly, this has been the first year Toyota have raced in any form of motorsport as a manufacturer since leaving Formula One.

I have not heard anything to suggest Toyota are even beginning to look at re-entering F1, given A. They are being really careful with their finances (they decided not to have a second full season entry in the WEC this year due to finances, and the WEC is miles cheaper than F1, so...) and B. They were the biggest spenders in Formula One and couldn't even win an egg and spoon race. Saying that they may possibly be looking at re-entering F1 just because Honda may possible be looking at re-entering F1 doesn't stack up.

I have heard Toyota may buy Aston Martin, but nothing that says they definitely will do. So the chances of them entering F1 any time soon are pretty much nil, I'd have thought.

Manufacturers are free to enter other forms of motorsport aside from Formula One. I know such comment will be seen as sacrilege here, but... j/k

Seriously. I think the chances of manufacturers re-entering in large numbers in Formula One are right with the chance that HRT/Marussia/Caterham will make any kind of progress soon - none existent.

Edited by JHS18, 14 November 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[HandyNZL]

Whatchu saying Jimmy?  Formula Toyota is just a figment of my imagination????  (Toyota Racing Series here in good lil old NZ...from whence Mitch Evans, Brendan Hartley and Richie Stanaway came from before trying their hands in Europe...and is where young Josh Hill is being schooled (as in, "you ain't that fast, kiddo))

[Massa]

Toyota race as a manufacturer in Super GT, in NASCAR (those are works efforts in disguise...TRD is behind all that goes into Waltrip's team and Gibbs' team...builds the engines, too), in Formula Nippon, probably other places I'm not remembering...

The thing is, they were tight with finances for WEC.  But no decision is "this costs too much."  It's "this costs too much relative to the benefits."  If there's more benefit relative to cost in an Aston Martin-branded F1 team, or whatever, than there is for a second WEC entry, you do the F1 team.  I'm not saying there is, but contesting WEC and F1 are no mutually exclusive.

In fact, Jean Todt is trying to use his influence, and use the regulations, to convince manufacturers who are in the WEC to also supply to F1 in some capacity.

Nothing wrong with having rumors, you know.  There are some nice ones in sports car racing (every car in the world is becoming a GTE or GT3, you know ) that won't come to fruition; why not have some in F1?

I wouldn't mind any of those buyers, but how realistic they are, we'll just have to see.

[Insider]

JHS18, on 14 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Sorry to sound like some kind of DOF here, but.

Toyota are busy already. They will soon be entering the second year of their LMP project (of which they won three races to Audi's three in the World Endurance Championship). Plus, they've been pretty open about their desire to do the World Rally Championship with the Yaris. Additionally, if my memory serves me correctly, this has been the first year Toyota have raced in any form of motorsport as a manufacturer since leaving Formula One.

I have not heard anything to suggest Toyota are even beginning to look at re-entering F1, given A. They are being really careful with their finances (they decided not to have a second full season entry in the WEC this year due to finances, and the WEC is miles cheaper than F1, so...) and B. They were the biggest spenders in Formula One and couldn't even win an egg and spoon race. Saying that they may possibly be looking at re-entering F1 just because Honda may possible be looking at re-entering F1 doesn't stack up.

I have heard Toyota may buy Aston Martin, but nothing that says they definitely will do. So the chances of them entering F1 any time soon are pretty much nil, I'd have thought.

Manufacturers are free to enter other forms of motorsport aside from Formula One. I know such comment will be seen as sacrilege here, but... j/k

Seriously. I think the chances of manufacturers re-entering in large numbers in Formula One are right with the chance that HRT/Marussia/Caterham will make any kind of progress soon - none existent.

FYI, another suggestion has been that Toyota may buy AM and Prodrive would operate a F1 team as Aston Martin F1 on a franchise.

[JHS18]

Oh yes, Prodrive, the team that applied to be in Formula One and got turned down how many times? Remind me.

I think after the last time, where HRT got a place on the grid over him, Dave Richards said he wouldn't be trying again. Can't say I blame him to be honest.

[Insider]

JHS18, on 15 November 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Oh yes, Prodrive, the team that applied to be in Formula One and got turned down how many times? Remind me.

I think after the last time, where HRT got a place on the grid over him, Dave Richards said he wouldn't be trying again. Can't say I blame him to be honest.

The main issues with Prodrive were over customer cars and budgets though DR has a way of winding Bernie up like a clock. Whoever may be involved, there needs to be a much better process of vetting the long-term finical health of teams who wish to be involved. I believe HK and Pedro are put in harms way every time they leave the garage at this moment in time and that's unacceptable. DR is a shareholder in AM but the rumours about Mahindra & Mahindra beating Toyota to the punch are growing stronger as are those that TATA may buy HRT. We shall see.

[Massa]

Sounds like there is a Chinese company interested.

[HandyNZL]

Huawei?