15 replies to this topic

[Quiet One]

We all know Vettel/RBR and Alonso/Ferrari to be rather strong packages, and the results are a faithful reflection of that (and yes, I mean that VET/RBR is the strogest package out there)

But things get more interesting once we get to the third place in this podium. I thought about making a poll, but polls end up usually being a bunch of lurkers merely voting like idiots for whoever favorite driver they have without even bothering to read the poll or explaining their motives and I want to hear the actual reasons and people who actually gives a fukc about their own thoughts.

So here are the candidates IMHO (in no particular order):

1) Button/McLaren
2) Kimi/Lotus
3) Hamilton/Merc

You could think of others, of course (who am I to say that Perez will not be the next sensation? Or Massa/Ferrari...nah...seriously now...) but I think these three are the strngest candidates as of today for the 3rd strongest package in the field for 2013.

So...who would you pick? And why?

My rating:

1) Button/McLaren: I rate Kimi over Button, but MCL over Lotus (only in terms of current position!) so this one was a tough choice. Yet, with 2014 and all the reg changes coming, bigger teams and bigger budgets will prevaiil as pressure in the second half shifts towards building the next year's car. Besides, I don't think that McLaren can be as disastrous in 2013 as they were this year, although I am sure they will try . It is a shame, because I still treasure Team Poochie a lot more than McL and I still think Kimi is faster than Button (and last year surprised me showing that he can also be consistent and not so accident prone...of course he had to go and ruin ALO championship but that's another story )

2) Kimi/Lotus: for the reasons above.

3) Lewis/Merc: mostly, because I think that the best Merc can do will be give the turd of a car they had a good polish but nothing more. Yes, they won a race, but then they compensated by going backwards faster than any other year before. Lewis will probably try hard, but it won't be enough.

[BradSpeedMan]

Quiet One, on 07 January 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Besides, I don't think that McLaren can be as disastrous in 2013 as they were this year, although I am sure they will try

heheheheh, you did the same mistake as me in another thread....heheheeh


ok, so here's my rating, it might come as a shock to you Andres but I only tell the truth...uknow!

1) Vettel/RBR
2) Kimi/Lotus
3) Button/McLaren
4) Alonso/Ferrari (throwing everything in the driver's favour but still not coming up with the goods and getting the job done... TERRIBLE)
5) Lewis/Merc

[Quiet One]

BradSpeedMan, on 07 January 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

heheheheh, you did the same mistake as me in another thread....heheheeh


ok, so here's my rating, it might come as a shock to you Andres but I only tell the truth...uknow!

1) Vettel/RBR
2) Kimi/Lotus
3) Button/McLaren
4) Alonso/Ferrari (throwing everything in the driver's favour but still not coming up with the goods and getting the job done... TERRIBLE)
5) Lewis/Merc

You are hopeless!

Anyways. just to be clear:

1) My question is about 2013, not 2012.

2) I am not including RBR/Vettel, nor Alonso/Ferrari. I think that they are on a league of their own and in any case they are too different to the more similar conditions and performance between these three (kimi/Jenson/Lewis Lotus/McLaren/Merc)

[Rainmaster]

Well, I can only go along with the idea that Mclaren will not be as terrible as last year, but also that Button will flourish with the team behind him. For that reason, I think you have to put them as completing the podium. I'm also not convinced Mercedes can improve that much but on the other hand, would not be that surprising if they did either, and I expect Lewis to at least be driving extremely well. I'd probably be tempted to say that Lewis/Merc might be stronger than Kimi/Lotus but we'll see, mostly based on the focus of the team being more on Lewis at Merc than it will be on Kimi at Lotus. Lotus do have a really good concept for these regulations and this time, Kimi will be on it from the start. But I also think he'll suffer more at the hands of Grosjean's pace and (hopefully) lack of accidents, and the team might start gravitating towards the smiling assassin. All in all, I say Button/Macca quite clearly and then probably Merc/Lewis and then Lotus with both drivers more even than this year. Perhaps...

[Kati]

I still think 1. VET+RBR, but when it gets to the 2nd I would be a bit confused. Of course Alonso deserves the 'spot' but we have Kimi who was quite impressive this season and he seems to be working perfectly with Lotus. And thats in one season, so imagine what may happen once they have more experience together. I think I'd go with 2. Kimi + Lotus, then 3rd Alonso + Ferrari, and fourth Button + McLaren. As for Lewis, I don't know what to expect from Mercedes.

[AleHop]

I rate Hamilton highly as a driver but he'll depend on his Mercedes W04. I spoke during Christmas with some German guy who had worked for Mercedes Benz (outsourcing) and he said they were very unhappy at Daimler with the results of Mercedes GP. That was the fundamental reason for Norbert Haug leaving the F1 team, that's what he told me. Why did Mercedes join a competition that is won by a "drinks company"? From a manufacturer POV that question has to be answered.

In summary, I expect a better Mercedes F1 car in 2013 or heads may roll in Stuttgart, but it won't be a championship contender. Both McLaren and Lotus should have a very good car so I expect Kimi and Button having the upper hand against Hamilton in 2013.

[dribbler]

Hulkenberg and Sauber.

Fine, laugh.

You'll see........

[Quiet One]

dribbler, on 08 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hulkenberg and Sauber.

Fine, laugh.

You'll see........

Har, har, har. Ok, that takes care of the laughing part.

As for the Hulk...I don't know. He seems to do the right thing which is to shine at Interlagos and leave people impressed through the off season. But his performance throughout the year is usually as anonymous as can be (it was the same in 2010 with Rubinho). With Di Resta I think they were the most evenly matched pair in the whole grid and, let's be frank, Paul is not exactly the highest bar you could find to measure success.(That phrase applies to both Di Resta and our Paul...)

I don't doubt that the guy is skilled, and like any other skilled enough driver in the grid, maybe the next Ayrton if he just got a shot at it. Then again, I used to think that way about Webbo and Rubinho in their days...

Throughout the whole season, Pérez did more (a lot more), his biggest mistake being his slump towards the end which makes him look like a non entity and Hulk like the new sensation.

[AleHop]

It all depends on how you measure success. Grosjean won the RoC. It has to mean something... Maybe not. But he's skilled too, lacks some other very important skills though. Most drivers success if they stay more than 3 years in F1 or they win a race or get a pole in their whole F1 life. I think Hulkenberg may be WDC material, the others are good drivers but talent isn't obvious.

http://www.f1zone.ne...s-at-bmw/10485/

It's still "not obvious". I only rate as obvious talents in the last ten years Hamilton, Kubica, Raikkonen, Alonso, Hulkenberg, Maldonado and I think that's it. If we could agree on what "obvious talent" means...

[pabloh20]

Quiet One, on 08 January 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Har, har, har. Ok, that takes care of the laughing part.

As for the Hulk...I don't know. He seems to do the right thing which is to shine at Interlagos and leave people impressed through the off season. But his performance throughout the year is usually as anonymous as can be (it was the same in 2010 with Rubinho). With Di Resta I think they were the most evenly matched pair in the whole grid and, let's be frank, Paul is not exactly the highest bar you could find to measure success.(That phrase applies to both Di Resta and our Paul...)

I don't doubt that the guy is skilled, and like any other skilled enough driver in the grid, maybe the next Ayrton if he just got a shot at it. Then again, I used to think that way about Webbo and Rubinho in their days...

Throughout the whole season, Pérez did more (a lot more), his biggest mistake being his slump towards the end which makes him look like a non entity and Hulk like the new sensation.

Well, it's the only bar you will ever be able to clear.......................no wait

Edited by pabloh20, 09 January 2013 - 09:29 PM.

[Insider]

I must say that RBR may not come up to snuff and could struggle to stay dominant. They are behind on the new car and I hear rumours it could take half a season to get on par. We'll see. Without an injection of pace and good intelligence on tyres McLaren will lag behind, I feel. Perez has shown a good understanding of the Pirellis and his input may prove to be vital as long the prophesied 10 lap slicks don't fool everyone as they might. Kimi is bloody good and the Renault has grunt but he can be all over the place and I expect a chastened Grosjean to stick to him like mud. Ferrari are an enigma and Nando had the season of his driving life for my money and I can see much change in fortune for that team. Lewis will wring the neck of the Merc and the Hulk will drive his way to a Red Bull seat at Sauber. Overall, I see a good start for the McLarens and Renaults with RBR playing catch up, Ferrari scratching their heads, Sauber surprising us and Niki Lauda sacking everyone except himself and Lewis.

[Quiet One]

Insider, on 10 January 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

I must say that RBR may not come up to snuff and could struggle to stay dominant. They are behind on the new car and I hear rumours it could take half a season to get on par. We'll see. Without an injection of pace and good intelligence on tyres McLaren will lag behind, I feel. Perez has shown a good understanding of the Pirellis and his input may prove to be vital as long the prophesied 10 lap slicks don't fool everyone as they might. Kimi is bloody good and the Renault has grunt but he can be all over the place and I expect a chastened Grosjean to stick to him like mud. Ferrari are an enigma and Nando had the season of his driving life for my money and I can see much change in fortune for that team. Lewis will wring the neck of the Merc and the Hulk will drive his way to a Red Bull seat at Sauber. Overall, I see a good start for the McLarens and Renaults with RBR playing catch up, Ferrari scratching their heads, Sauber surprising us and Niki Lauda sacking everyone except himself and Lewis.

I agree with your conclusions. All in all, I think whatever good Lewis could actually bring to Merc will end up being eclipsed by all the Sh#t Lauda will bring there. Haug will be sorely missed in a couple of months. Lauda to Merc is the biggest disaster since Nurburgring '76...

[ecapdeville]

Hey! everybody is here!... greetings!... ok... keep the chat, I will just look over you...

[Jenson_Rules]

I think button/mclaren 3rd, Kimi/lotus 4th and Hamilton/merc 5th for much the same reasons as a lot of you have above!

[Jean-Pierre]

Looks like the king will regain his trone, but Sir Frank might have the right horses to give him a good fight.

[Insider]

It is clear that McLaren have gone for a design with a ton of development potential and will come with a mid-season run that may leave the other teams trailing in their wake. That's the theory. Well, we saw RBR and Ferrari pull that off last year though the latter benefitted from a driver, the like of whom we haven't seen at work since the early Schumacher years. Has Button got another WDC in him? Of course he has. We saw evidence this week that Sergio will be on his arse though and the 2009 Champion will need to be on his best game. That is what I wanted. I don't want Jenson to feel comfortable, I want him super nervous and dialled in. Kimi is the real danger to all. I think the RBR9 is limited on development despite the greatness of Newey. Ferrari are a joke and need to clean house. Sauber will poke and prod and Lewis will do circus tricks with his shocking Merc. I believe the usual suspects will grace the podium for the first few races and then we will witness the resurgence of McLaren led by one of the finest pure drivers of the decade and his young gunslinger compadre.

1 McLaren/Button
2 Lotus/Raikkonen
3 RBR/Vettel
4 McLaren/Perez
4 Ferrari/Alonso
5 Lotus/Grosjean
6 RBR/Webber
7 Mercedes/Hamilton
8 Force India/Sutil
9 Williams/Bottas
10 Sauber/Gutierrez