Jump to content



- - - - -

2014 Has Arrived


  • Please log in to reply
87 replies to this topic

#1 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

All the chat in the pit lane seems to be centred on next season almost exclusively. A 17 year old 'angel' with a frightening lack of experience has arrived with $170m to save Sauber from certain bankruptcy. But has he? There are those who believe this may be a huge white elephant. If the story is true, has Sauber been sold? Kaltenborn says no. I don't believe it. Would you invest that kind of change without taking control? Genii were scrabbling for cash but they may have picked a loser in Infinity Racing. Take a close look at their failed SAAB takeover bid. Unless you make cars, F1 is a black hole financially and is not for the weak. Before the first 2014 spec turbo lump has been fired up, Brawn is predicting a plethora of blow ups. Force India and Macca must be thrilled! McLaren are in a trying situation. A dog of a car this year, a transitional one next and a complete re-design in 2015. I am told the Honda design will not just 'slot in' to the space vacated by the Mercedes turbo. Jenson may be gone by then unless Honda want him to stay. Personally, I don't think there will be much driver movement at all next year. Webber is going and Grosjean may be sacked but I doubt it. He brings a lot of money to the team and does Kimi really want to be in a team with Vettel? I bloddy wouldn't. There was nothing wrong with the current spec and turbos are hellish expensive. I expect Renault to leave Merc and Ferrari in their wake - they are the F1 turbo kings. My experience is that they need massive cooling and Newey has already spotted that. 2014 could be more spectacular and farcical than the current season - especially if Bernie goes to jail. We can but hope.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#2 BradSpeedMan

BradSpeedMan

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,726 posts

Posted 16 July 2013 - 04:48 PM

View PostInsider, on 16 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

All the chat in the pit lane seems to be centred on next season almost exclusively. A 17 year old 'angel' with a frightening lack of experience has arrived with $170m to save Sauber from certain bankruptcy. But has he? There are those who believe this may be a huge white elephant. If the story is true, has Sauber been sold? Kaltenborn says no. I don't believe it. Would you invest that kind of change without taking control? Genii were scrabbling for cash but they may have picked a loser in Infinity Racing. Take a close look at their failed SAAB takeover bid. Unless you make cars, F1 is a black hole financially and is not for the weak. Before the first 2014 spec turbo lump has been fired up, Brawn is predicting a plethora of blow ups. Force India and Macca must be thrilled! McLaren are in a trying situation. A dog of a car this year, a transitional one next and a complete re-design in 2015. I am told the Honda design will not just 'slot in' to the space vacated by the Mercedes turbo. Jenson may be gone by then unless Honda want him to stay. Personally, I don't think there will be much driver movement at all next year. Webber is going and Grosjean may be sacked but I doubt it. He brings a lot of money to the team and does Kimi really want to be in a team with Vettel? I bloddy wouldn't. There was nothing wrong with the current spec and turbos are hellish expensive. I expect Renault to leave Merc and Ferrari in their wake - they are the F1 turbo kings. My experience is that they need massive cooling and Newey has already spotted that. 2014 could be more spectacular and farcical than the current season - especially if Bernie goes to jail. We can but hope.
You really think so? Why does everyone think Merc will have the upper hand? Can't help but agree with everything else...
Posted Image

We keep on working, we do our thing, Vettel shouts over the team radio,We are who we are!

"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow

#3 KoolMonkey

KoolMonkey

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 1,549 posts

Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

I wish 2014 really was here. Nothing to do with F1, but 2013, actually from New Years eve, has been one of the most painful heartbreaking periods of my life. Bring on 2014!

As for F1, I still have dodgy vibes about how Lotus if being fun, the financials and so on. Kimi's not stupid, and he's got a very sharp manager, so if there are money problems, it doesn't go away even if the driver is paid, as then you won't have funding for anything else, to develop the car and on.

For starters Lotus have no part in the "Lotus" team. Thus why is their name even on it. Secondly, this whole Infinity Racing thing isn't a one off. Genii, or "Lotus" have shown a history of announcing sponsors and other goings on, only for it to turn out to be hot air. I like the image that this team portrays, I just don't think it's sustainable and something is off about the whole setup.

Kimi's not intimidated by Vettel. Thus the only way he won't go there is if they want him to do a ton of PR, or Vettel nixes the idea. It just seems it's been leading to this for years now. Kimi has a long association with Red Bull even going back to his Sauber days, so it just makes sense. I could see him at RBR for 4-5 years. But we all suspect Vettel might be off to Ferrari in the next couple of years. And by then Alonso will be long gone from their, Santander will be bankrupt and Massa will still be the #2!
Posted Image

"Obviously I am pleased to have many fans. Who would not want? But to be honest, I have no idea why people like me."

"There is always a lot of talk about the motivation but nobody really knows what I do or what I think except for myself, so I don't really care about what people say."
"There's always talk about my motivation, written by people who don't know me and couldn't have an idea on how strong my motivation is. If I didn't feel I had the motivation, I would stop. My feeling is that I probably drove some of my best races in my last season in Formula One and I was very happy with my performance. I've never had any issues with motivation."
"Do you really think I would be here if it was just about money?" Raikkonen hit back.  "I do enough fun things in my spare time than to have to listen to this bullsh*t."


Vodka, ice-creams in the garage, rallying, snow-mobile racing, gorilla suit connoisseur, hitched to former miss Finland, James Hunt appeal, knows what he's doing, a vacant stare, talks like a Dalek, 1970s caps, Elton John glasses and some people call this guy boring? I wish we had more characters like him in F1.

"Everybody's got a plan till they get hit in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

#4 JHS18

JHS18

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 1,660 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:38 PM

I'd much prefer to see Ricciardo at Red Bull than Raikkonen.

It is good for the sport to have new blood in the top teams, over someone who has had numerous opportunities with top teams already.

Plus, I like how it is now, with the top drivers spread evenly through the top teams. A Vettel/Raikkonen combo would make the WDC awfully predictable, and would probably be sewed up by about this time of year.
Posted Image

#5 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:31 AM

View PostKoolMonkey, on 17 July 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I wish 2014 really was here. Nothing to do with F1, but 2013, actually from New Years eve, has been one of the most painful heartbreaking periods of my life. Bring on 2014!

As for F1, I still have dodgy vibes about how Lotus if being fun, the financials and so on. Kimi's not stupid, and he's got a very sharp manager, so if there are money problems, it doesn't go away even if the driver is paid, as then you won't have funding for anything else, to develop the car and on.

For starters Lotus have no part in the "Lotus" team. Thus why is their name even on it. Secondly, this whole Infinity Racing thing isn't a one off. Genii, or "Lotus" have shown a history of announcing sponsors and other goings on, only for it to turn out to be hot air. I like the image that this team portrays, I just don't think it's sustainable and something is off about the whole setup.

Kimi's not intimidated by Vettel. Thus the only way he won't go there is if they want him to do a ton of PR, or Vettel nixes the idea. It just seems it's been leading to this for years now. Kimi has a long association with Red Bull even going back to his Sauber days, so it just makes sense. I could see him at RBR for 4-5 years. But we all suspect Vettel might be off to Ferrari in the next couple of years. And by then Alonso will be long gone from their, Santander will be bankrupt and Massa will still be the #2!
Kimi is a bad fit for RBR. He's bone idle and horribly non-technical. He's a sociopathic hot-shoe with a screw loose. For me, Jenson is a perfect replacement. He is easy to get along with, handles the PR well, is seriously quick in a great car, has technical savvy and is a sound strategist in the car. If they want double podiums, he's the 'go-to' guy in my opinion. For me, Ricciardo is still a rough diamond and he needs a couple more seasons chasing the pack but he is rapid.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#6 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:36 AM

View PostBradSpeedMan, on 16 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

You really think so? Why does everyone think Merc will have the upper hand? Can't help but agree with everything else...
Brawn is already bleating about engine difficulties with a 1.6L turbo. He could be sandbagging but the customer teams don't want to hear negative speke from the Works TP.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#7 KoolMonkey

KoolMonkey

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 1,549 posts

Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:59 AM

View PostInsider, on 18 July 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Kimi is a bad fit for RBR. He's bone idle and horribly non-technical. He's a sociopathic hot-shoe with a screw loose. For me, Jenson is a perfect replacement. He is easy to get along with, handles the PR well, is seriously quick in a great car, has technical savvy and is a sound strategist in the car. If they want double podiums, he's the 'go-to' guy in my opinion. For me, Ricciardo is still a rough diamond and he needs a couple more seasons chasing the pack but he is rapid.
That's maybe one of the silliest remarks I've seen. It's not my job to correct you, but there is plenty of proof from team personnel during Kimi's career that he has a great understanding and technical mind. Even if some of his suggestions are at odds with what the telemetry and computers are saying is "best". It's not my opinion, it's factually out there if you care to go Google it. But you won't put in the effort and thus can stay "safe" if your view he's got a screw loose. If you were talking about last years Maldonado & Grosjean, or Perez earlier this year I would agree. Instead this forum is subjected to more myth story telling akin to the "Kimi is lazy and unmotivated" BS which has thankfully finally died out. This one will eventually as well. Must hurt to see a driver you think so little off, beat the pants off a driver you think is better. I'll put that down to biased patriotism.
Posted Image

"Obviously I am pleased to have many fans. Who would not want? But to be honest, I have no idea why people like me."

"There is always a lot of talk about the motivation but nobody really knows what I do or what I think except for myself, so I don't really care about what people say."
"There's always talk about my motivation, written by people who don't know me and couldn't have an idea on how strong my motivation is. If I didn't feel I had the motivation, I would stop. My feeling is that I probably drove some of my best races in my last season in Formula One and I was very happy with my performance. I've never had any issues with motivation."
"Do you really think I would be here if it was just about money?" Raikkonen hit back.  "I do enough fun things in my spare time than to have to listen to this bullsh*t."


Vodka, ice-creams in the garage, rallying, snow-mobile racing, gorilla suit connoisseur, hitched to former miss Finland, James Hunt appeal, knows what he's doing, a vacant stare, talks like a Dalek, 1970s caps, Elton John glasses and some people call this guy boring? I wish we had more characters like him in F1.

"Everybody's got a plan till they get hit in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

#8 The Shadow

The Shadow

    Established Driver

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Strana Mechty
  • Interests:Engineering, Motorsport, Humour (with a "u" FFS!!), Self-Preservation

Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:07 AM

McL testing 2014 parts during YDT, RB testing 2014 drivers
Refer above for quotes

#9 WebRic

WebRic

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 3,739 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast,Queensland,Australia
  • Interests:Formula One-gotta love it

Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:23 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 19 July 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

McL testing 2014 parts during YDT, RB testing 2014 drivers


Ricciardo has really starting to show some consistency, very impressed so far even though he beached the rb, in the top 3 in two different cars. Very impressive, job done he has the seat IMO. Eric boullier is telling other drivers to not even bother approaching lotus as there lineup is decided. Meaning kimi is staying, wheather is concrete or wishful thinking I think he knows.
Posted Image

#10 KoolMonkey

KoolMonkey

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 1,549 posts

Posted 19 July 2013 - 05:14 AM

View PostWebRic, on 19 July 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Ricciardo has really starting to show some consistency, very impressed so far even though he beached the rb, in the top 3 in two different cars. Very impressive, job done he has the seat IMO. Eric boullier is telling other drivers to not even bother approaching lotus as there lineup is decided. Meaning kimi is staying, wheather is concrete or wishful thinking I think he knows.
This is Lotus we are talking about. They have a history of recent times of stating stuff, even putting out press releases that end up not being true. It has nothing to do with what Eric wants, and all to do with what Kimi wants. If he feels Lotus will have a competitive car, he'll stay. If he feels they won't go bankrupt in the next year, he might stay. However he's not going to stay just because Eric says publicly to other drivers to not come knocking. A few days back, he said they have a plan B. Thus no consistency, other than they want Kimi to stay. So the ball really is in Kimi's court I feel.
Posted Image

"Obviously I am pleased to have many fans. Who would not want? But to be honest, I have no idea why people like me."

"There is always a lot of talk about the motivation but nobody really knows what I do or what I think except for myself, so I don't really care about what people say."
"There's always talk about my motivation, written by people who don't know me and couldn't have an idea on how strong my motivation is. If I didn't feel I had the motivation, I would stop. My feeling is that I probably drove some of my best races in my last season in Formula One and I was very happy with my performance. I've never had any issues with motivation."
"Do you really think I would be here if it was just about money?" Raikkonen hit back.  "I do enough fun things in my spare time than to have to listen to this bullsh*t."


Vodka, ice-creams in the garage, rallying, snow-mobile racing, gorilla suit connoisseur, hitched to former miss Finland, James Hunt appeal, knows what he's doing, a vacant stare, talks like a Dalek, 1970s caps, Elton John glasses and some people call this guy boring? I wish we had more characters like him in F1.

"Everybody's got a plan till they get hit in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

#11 WebRic

WebRic

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 3,739 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast,Queensland,Australia
  • Interests:Formula One-gotta love it

Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:05 AM

View PostKoolMonkey, on 19 July 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:


This is Lotus we are talking about. They have a history of recent times of stating stuff, even putting out press releases that end up not being true. It has nothing to do with what Eric wants, and all to do with what Kimi wants. If he feels Lotus will have a competitive car, he'll stay. If he feels they won't go bankrupt in the next year, he might stay. However he's not going to stay just because Eric says publicly to other drivers to not come knocking. A few days back, he said they have a plan B. Thus no consistency, other than they want Kimi to stay. So the ball really is in Kimi's court I feel.

I know it has nothing to do with Eric I was just stating what he said. IMO kimi won't leave, rb compared to lotus are alot more media intense than lotus being all the sports they are involved in compared to lotus his media schedule will be full. Lotus give him the air and space he needs and wants. Rb also stated whoever they sign has to sign a long term deal,which is what rb are after. Realistically I can't see kimi around much longer. Sure we will get a few more yrs out of him but not as long a ricciardo and IMO if rb pick him up it won't take long at all till he reaches a level where he is on the podium consistantly and winning a few races, he will do better than webber I think as he is alot more hungrier, but with Raikkonen he is a known driver in the sense they know what there getting, ricciardo still is learning but it would be nice to see a new face at the pointy end. I was excited about Perez joining Mclaren (even though I thought kobi was more impressive) but he has not shone as brightly as I thought, though the car he is driving is a brick.
Posted Image

#12 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostKoolMonkey, on 19 July 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

That's maybe one of the silliest remarks I've seen. It's not my job to correct you, but there is plenty of proof from team personnel during Kimi's career that he has a great understanding and technical mind. Even if some of his suggestions are at odds with what the telemetry and computers are saying is "best". It's not my opinion, it's factually out there if you care to go Google it. But you won't put in the effort and thus can stay "safe" if your view he's got a screw loose. If you were talking about last years Maldonado & Grosjean, or Perez earlier this year I would agree. Instead this forum is subjected to more myth story telling akin to the "Kimi is lazy and unmotivated" BS which has thankfully finally died out. This one will eventually as well. Must hurt to see a driver you think so little off, beat the pants off a driver you think is better. I'll put that down to biased patriotism.
Hmm. OK, I'll be more moderate in my description of of Mr Raikkonen. I would have to say I am a big fan of the guy but he does NOT like to spend time with his engineers, absolutely HATES the press and PR duties he is contracted to fulfil and though disinclined to 'mix' it on the track, he has his moments of risk-taking when racing. He can be extremely arrogant and rude, specifically to the media. Though I considered his manner to be a large part of his charm, none of the above are qualities that RBR want in a driver, certainly if Brigadeführer Marko has anything to do with it.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#13 WebRic

WebRic

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 3,739 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gold Coast,Queensland,Australia
  • Interests:Formula One-gotta love it

Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:08 AM

View PostInsider, on 19 July 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Hmm. OK, I'll be more moderate in my description of of Mr Raikkonen. I would have to say I am a big fan of the guy but he does NOT like to spend time with his engineers, absolutely HATES the press and PR duties he is contracted to fulfil and though disinclined to 'mix' it on the track, he has his moments of risk-taking when racing. He can be extremely arrogant and rude, specifically to the media. Though I considered his manner to be a large part of his charm, none of the above are qualities that RBR want in a driver, certainly if Brigadeführer Marko has anything to do with it.

Agree 100% when Mika hakkinen was around I didn't think there was anyone else with a minimal vocabulary like Mika, but kimi takes the cake.
Posted Image

#14 BradSpeedMan

BradSpeedMan

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,726 posts

Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:12 AM

to add to what KM has said, he definately tells the engineers what he wants, unfortunately during the Ferrari years they could'nt implement what he wanted.  tHEN HE JUST SHRUGGED IT OFF. The fact that Ferrari still struggles in this day to what exactly Alonso wants just tells you something...
Posted Image

We keep on working, we do our thing, Vettel shouts over the team radio,We are who we are!

"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow

#15 KoolMonkey

KoolMonkey

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 1,549 posts

Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:33 AM

View PostBradSpeedMan, on 21 July 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

to add to what KM has said, he definately tells the engineers what he wants, unfortunately during the Ferrari years they could'nt implement what he wanted.  tHEN HE JUST SHRUGGED IT OFF. The fact that Ferrari still struggles in this day to what exactly Alonso wants just tells you something...
When Todt was still at Ferrari, Kimi was listened to, when he left, they spent more time listening to Schumi on how things should be, than Kimi who was actually driving the car. There is a fantastic post out on the net I read that broke down the whole period of time, how Schumi wrecked things telling Ferrari to go in a certain direction that only benefited Massa. I don't remember where it was, but after reading it you had to certainly wonder aloud about the points that were brought up. It also went into other things about how Ferrari had a plan hatched to kick Kimi out of the team to get Santander & their money if Alonso was in the team. It still bothers me to this day when people say Kimi was lazy in 2009 and was proof he was a crap driver. This article carpet bombed that notion and went into alot of the goings on in Ferrari during that year. Fascinating read, if only I could remember where it was lol

EDIT: Found it! http://f1bias.com/20...santander-2008/
I recommend anyone both fan and foe to read this. It's a great read with lots of good points and counter arguments. And for me personally explained quite a lot about what I suspected was going on in that team at the time.

There are some great quotes from team members and personal from Ferrari 2009 about how they were amazed Kimi was getting the performance he was out of that car when it was clear they had abandoned that year in terms of development, and were doing what Schumi was advising, not what Kimi was asking for. It's Ferrari's loss in my view, and we're now seeing their mediocrity year in year out. Todt was a legend in that team, and the replacement are akin to keystone cops in my view.

Edited by KoolMonkey, 21 July 2013 - 07:36 AM.

Posted Image

"Obviously I am pleased to have many fans. Who would not want? But to be honest, I have no idea why people like me."

"There is always a lot of talk about the motivation but nobody really knows what I do or what I think except for myself, so I don't really care about what people say."
"There's always talk about my motivation, written by people who don't know me and couldn't have an idea on how strong my motivation is. If I didn't feel I had the motivation, I would stop. My feeling is that I probably drove some of my best races in my last season in Formula One and I was very happy with my performance. I've never had any issues with motivation."
"Do you really think I would be here if it was just about money?" Raikkonen hit back.  "I do enough fun things in my spare time than to have to listen to this bullsh*t."


Vodka, ice-creams in the garage, rallying, snow-mobile racing, gorilla suit connoisseur, hitched to former miss Finland, James Hunt appeal, knows what he's doing, a vacant stare, talks like a Dalek, 1970s caps, Elton John glasses and some people call this guy boring? I wish we had more characters like him in F1.

"Everybody's got a plan till they get hit in the mouth." -Mike Tyson

#16 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 21 July 2013 - 07:54 AM

View PostBradSpeedMan, on 21 July 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

to add to what KM has said, he definately tells the engineers what he wants, unfortunately during the Ferrari years they could'nt implement what he wanted.  tHEN HE JUST SHRUGGED IT OFF. The fact that Ferrari still struggles in this day to what exactly Alonso wants just tells you something...
That is not what I was saying. Every driver spends time with their engineers but there are degrees. Kimi tells them what he wants and expects them to do it. His job is to drive. He's not going to hang around all day figuring it out with them. Jenson and Alonso will and to and extent, Vettel gets 'mucky' too. Hamilton takes the same attitude as Kimi. I know - I've been there, seen it, heard it. Lauda would be at the garage at 7am and leave at 7pm. That's the other end of the scale. To the point. RBR insist on intense technical intercourse between driver and team - the are a super-technical team - it's part of their DNA.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#17 BradSpeedMan

BradSpeedMan

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,726 posts

Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:12 AM

View PostInsider, on 21 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

That is not what I was saying. Every driver spends time with their engineers but there are degrees. Kimi tells them what he wants and expects them to do it. His job is to drive. He's not going to hang around all day figuring it out with them. Jenson and Alonso will and to and extent, Vettel gets 'mucky' too. Hamilton takes the same attitude as Kimi. I know - I've been there, seen it, heard it. Lauda would be at the garage at 7am and leave at 7pm. That's the other end of the scale. To the point. RBR insist on intense technical intercourse between driver and team - the are a super-technical team - it's part of their DNA.
well, it just shows how ineffective it is, they're not making any progress it seems(Jenson and Alonso). Then let the driver do his job and let the engineer do his based on the feedback from the driver!

Why the intense interest in Kimi if RBR is'nt aware of his suppose lack of technical feedback or his lack of ability to work with the engineers?? Are they really that dumb, does'nt seem so as they have won 3 constructor and championship championships in a row!! There's still alot of myths that needs to be squashed it seems, especially concerning the media and Kimi

Edited by BradSpeedMan, 21 July 2013 - 10:21 AM.

Posted Image

We keep on working, we do our thing, Vettel shouts over the team radio,We are who we are!

"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow

#18 Ikyrotz

Ikyrotz

    Established Driver

  • Members
  • 426 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berlin, MA

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:17 PM

View PostInsider, on 21 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

That is not what I was saying. Every driver spends time with their engineers but there are degrees. Kimi tells them what he wants and expects them to do it. His job is to drive. He's not going to hang around all day figuring it out with them. Jenson and Alonso will and to and extent, Vettel gets 'mucky' too. Hamilton takes the same attitude as Kimi. I know - I've been there, seen it, heard it. Lauda would be at the garage at 7am and leave at 7pm. That's the other end of the scale. To the point. RBR insist on intense technical intercourse between driver and team - the are a super-technical team - it's part of their DNA.

I do not quite understand what is the benefit of the driver spending all that time with the engineers. If they know more about the engineering side of things than the engineers, maybe the team needs better engineers? I would think the drivers responsibility is to report his/her feelings about how the car behaves, and how it should behave in order for him/her to be able to drive faster. Then it is up to the engineers to make that happen, and at least I'd be annoyed as an engineer if I had someone looking over my shoulder all the time while trying to achieve that. If the driver needs 12 hours to explain his feelings about he behavior of the car, then that reflects quite poorly on the driver's abilities to interact with the engineers, imo.

I think the difference between Kimi/Lewis and Fernando/Jenson/Michael in this regard comes, in part, from how they drive. I think Kimi and Lewis rely much more on their natural talent to feel the limits of the car and much less on what the computer tells them how to drive. That makes them less dependent on the data and hence they spend less time going over it

#19 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:27 PM

View PostBradSpeedMan, on 21 July 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

well, it just shows how ineffective it is, they're not making any progress it seems(Jenson and Alonso). Then let the driver do his job and let the engineer do his based on the feedback from the driver!

Why the intense interest in Kimi if RBR is'nt aware of his suppose lack of technical feedback or his lack of ability to work with the engineers?? Are they really that dumb, does'nt seem so as they have won 3 constructor and championship championships in a row!! There's still alot of myths that needs to be squashed it seems, especially concerning the media and Kimi
Look, I feel it's far more likely that RBR would NOT sign Kimi over a more compelling alternative. Kimi's lack of 'this' or 'that' is irrelevant. He's a hot gun. Does time spent with your engineering staff have a direct bearing on performance? Ask Schumacher. I don't think any driver relishes the sponsor and media part of their workload. I am just mindful of Helmut Marko's recent remarks regarding that subject and his influence on decisions in that area.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#20 Insider

Insider

    Woking Bullet

  • Pit Crew
  • 2,537 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:F1 and loud rock music. I support West Ham United and play in three bands.

Posted 21 July 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostIkyrotz, on 21 July 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I do not quite understand what is the benefit of the driver spending all that time with the engineers. If they know more about the engineering side of things than the engineers, maybe the team needs better engineers? I would think the drivers responsibility is to report his/her feelings about how the car behaves, and how it should behave in order for him/her to be able to drive faster. Then it is up to the engineers to make that happen, and at least I'd be annoyed as an engineer if I had someone looking over my shoulder all the time while trying to achieve that. If the driver needs 12 hours to explain his feelings about he behavior of the car, then that reflects quite poorly on the driver's abilities to interact with the engineers, imo.

I think the difference between Kimi/Lewis and Fernando/Jenson/Michael in this regard comes, in part, from how they drive. I think Kimi and Lewis rely much more on their natural talent to feel the limits of the car and much less on what the computer tells them how to drive. That makes them less dependent on the data and hence they spend less time going over it

View PostIkyrotz, on 21 July 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

I do not quite understand what is the benefit of the driver spending all that time with the engineers. If they know more about the engineering side of things than the engineers, maybe the team needs better engineers? I would think the drivers responsibility is to report his/her feelings about how the car behaves, and how it should behave in order for him/her to be able to drive faster. Then it is up to the engineers to make that happen, and at least I'd be annoyed as an engineer if I had someone looking over my shoulder all the time while trying to achieve that. If the driver needs 12 hours to explain his feelings about he behavior of the car, then that reflects quite poorly on the driver's abilities to interact with the engineers, imo.

I think the difference between Kimi/Lewis and Fernando/Jenson/Michael in this regard comes, in part, from how they drive. I think Kimi and Lewis rely much more on their natural talent to feel the limits of the car and much less on what the computer tells them how to drive. That makes them less dependent on the data and hence they spend less time going over it
I think it's more about building a team around you than beating the field. It's a team sport and prima donnas don't get the best out of the technical staff - that's a given.
Listening to: Tyla Gang/Live In Stockholm, Hassan Ramzy/Rock The Tabla, Already Free/Derek Trucks band

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain

#21 The Shadow

The Shadow

    Established Driver

  • Members
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Strana Mechty
  • Interests:Engineering, Motorsport, Humour (with a "u" FFS!!), Self-Preservation

Posted 22 July 2013 - 02:19 AM

View PostKoolMonkey, on 21 July 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:


EDIT: Found it! http://f1bias.com/20...santander-2008/
I recommend anyone both fan and foe to read this. It's a great read with lots of good points and counter arguments. And for me personally explained quite a lot about what I suspected was going on in that team at the time.



In response to your link, I provide this

http://joesaward.wor...media-of-today/

If anything, it's a wake up call for us to focus on credibility rather than post stuff sensationalising something because it's a slow news week. Don't take it personally KM, I was in the same boat when I referenced an F1plus article and Brad gave me hell for it not so long ago. Made me think twice, that. Now I try to substantiate reports by their sources before posting them. I hope others here do as well so that if we choose to have arguments, it's based on proper foundations
Refer above for quotes

#22 Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

Grabthaw the Hammerslayer

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 3,623 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The garden of England

Posted 22 July 2013 - 06:23 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 22 July 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Now I try to substantiate reports by their sources before posting them. I hope others here do as well so that if we choose to have arguments, it's based on proper foundations

Damn, does this mean that the article I found on Lewis Hamilton really being Janet Jackson after a sex-change is not true? :o

Back to the posts on custard then :(

   The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch

   Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where the hell is the ceiling?

   I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers.

  


#23 BradSpeedMan

BradSpeedMan

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,726 posts

Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:32 AM

View PostThe Shadow, on 22 July 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

In response to your link, I provide this

http://joesaward.wor...media-of-today/

If anything, it's a wake up call for us to focus on credibility rather than post stuff sensationalising something because it's a slow news week. Don't take it personally KM, I was in the same boat when I referenced an F1plus article and Brad gave me hell for it not so long ago. Made me think twice, that. Now I try to substantiate reports by their sources before posting them. I hope others here do as well so that if we choose to have arguments, it's based on proper foundations
Yea, but in the author's defense he does give us some credible sources to look up on, and it's reliable F1 websites...makes one think
Posted Image

We keep on working, we do our thing, Vettel shouts over the team radio,We are who we are!

"Vettel is a champion. That’s not referring to his achievements, but rather to his approach to everything he does. He wins. All the time. His preparation is meticulous, his attention to detail reminiscent of Michael Schumacher at his peak, and his performance on the track is almost always flawless. Vettel is capable only of domination. He knows no other way... Vettel is not in Formula One to be liked. He is there to win. And in the words of Ayrton Senna, perhaps the greatest of all Formula One drivers, “Nice men don’t win.”"
Chris Cameron-Dow

#24 pabloh20

pabloh20

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,061 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 22 July 2013 - 03:55 PM

Quote

View PostBradSpeedMan, on 22 July 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Yea, but in the author's defense he does give us some credible sources to look up on, and it's reliable F1 websites...makes one think

Really??  The article starts with -

Quote

The period between April-July 2008 is probably one of the worst periods not only in Kimi’s F1 career but probably in his life. All his life he and his family believed in hard work and doing their best to achieve good things on merit. In Kimi’s case this means putting his natural talents to best use in performing, and winning races.

After that I struggled to take anything seriously......................and I like Kimi :lol:
It's because you flit from post to post like a puppy in a room full of people, causing merriment wherever you go. And shagging their leg - Medilloni

Rules are written for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

#25 Quiet One

Quiet One

    The balding avenger

  • Senior Members
  • 11,262 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Argentina

Posted 22 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

Zing!

:lol:
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the Universe, and it has a longer shelf life" - Frank Zappa

"Great drivers are the ones who win the races they're not supposed to" - K.Chandhok

#26 Rainmaster

Rainmaster

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,626 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Ning Nang Nong

Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:42 PM

But they did believe!
"He has the speed of Casey [Stoner] but the brain of Valentino." ~ Honda's Livio Suppo describing Marc Marquez.

"Everything will be alright in the end. If it is not alright, it is not yet the end." ~ Paulo Coelho

Over the years the racing car has changed and the necessity for the sensitive and precise handling of the faster, lighter grand prix cars of the post war era, emphasised the need for a more subtle and controlled driving technique. Fangio, with his iron self-control and uncanny skill, met this demand with contemptuous ease, to set a style that raised the art of racing driving to the height of a new science. 20 years earlier in 1937, that great French driver Jean-Pierre Wimille, then at the height of his fame, said of Fangio "I have seen at Buenos Aires a brilliant new driver, the day he has a real racing car to drive, he will perform miracles”.

#27 pabloh20

pabloh20

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,061 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostRainmaster, on 22 July 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

But they did believe!

That the children are our future or that they could fly?
It's because you flit from post to post like a puppy in a room full of people, causing merriment wherever you go. And shagging their leg - Medilloni

Rules are written for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

#28 Rainmaster

Rainmaster

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,626 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Ning Nang Nong

Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

No, that.. https://www.youtube....2kxh5NMSI#t=59s
"He has the speed of Casey [Stoner] but the brain of Valentino." ~ Honda's Livio Suppo describing Marc Marquez.

"Everything will be alright in the end. If it is not alright, it is not yet the end." ~ Paulo Coelho

Over the years the racing car has changed and the necessity for the sensitive and precise handling of the faster, lighter grand prix cars of the post war era, emphasised the need for a more subtle and controlled driving technique. Fangio, with his iron self-control and uncanny skill, met this demand with contemptuous ease, to set a style that raised the art of racing driving to the height of a new science. 20 years earlier in 1937, that great French driver Jean-Pierre Wimille, then at the height of his fame, said of Fangio "I have seen at Buenos Aires a brilliant new driver, the day he has a real racing car to drive, he will perform miracles”.

#29 Massa

Massa

    Terry Labonte Retired

  • Pit Crew
  • 3,452 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 July 2013 - 03:17 PM

Perception of, not the reality within, Kimi Räikkönen will determine how teams evaluate him.

He could be another Eddie Cheever, Jr. (well, I doubt Kimi sits under trees and writes poems that are "too personal to share," but...), who was completely misunderstood his entire career.  Introversion came across as standoffishness, and no one wanted to work with him...so he started his own team and no one wanted to drive for him!

Cheever's not a jerk; everyone just thought that.  I wonder how many people who have power in F1 think Räikkönen is whatever negative attribute.  As long as they think it, it's an issue for him.  There's no doubt that many things that make him endearing to a lot of us aren't always what sponsors want; Lotus have found a great way to sort of spin the "Kimi being Kimi" thing into something vaguely marketable, but not all teams do that.

Now, another thing to consider, with Red Bull's second seat: what about Vergne?  Horner made it clear, JEV is not getting a promotion.  Yet, at times, he has been more impressive than Ricciardo and, on paper, I don't think you could say he was anything less than equal.  Being at STR is always temporary employment, and if the big club passes on you for what will likely be the only opening for a long time, you have no choice but to get out.  Soon enough, STR will want da Costa (probably the biggest bust of the year...his motivation in FR3.5 seems to resemble that of Ricciardo's...just doesn't want to be there for another year) and Sainz (really not seeing results from him, but whatever) there.  Vergne could easily be another Alguersuari or Buemi, but I think Vergne's better than those two.  Ricciardo and Vergne, to me, is about the strongest pairing they ever had on that team.  Would Total/Boullier like Vergne for one of the Lotus seats?  Or am I just doing some wishful thinking there?
My avatar is not my work, but is in the public domain.  Releasing things into the public domain is a very nice thing to do if you ever can.

#30 Rainmaster

Rainmaster

    F1 Ace

  • Senior Members
  • 7,626 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Ning Nang Nong

Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

I think every team would happily sign Kimi in the right circumstances and he's generally well liked and respected in the paddock. The perception issues are more from the fan side of things. I think one reason the perceptions of Kimi might be negative, is because fan perceptions are mostly influenced by the media. Kimi doesn't accept the premise which everybody else accepts that the media are super important, or have any right to ask certain questions, and so he doesn't have that relationship with the media. So, the media can sometimes portray him in a negative way, and sometimes that can get passed on to some fans.
"He has the speed of Casey [Stoner] but the brain of Valentino." ~ Honda's Livio Suppo describing Marc Marquez.

"Everything will be alright in the end. If it is not alright, it is not yet the end." ~ Paulo Coelho

Over the years the racing car has changed and the necessity for the sensitive and precise handling of the faster, lighter grand prix cars of the post war era, emphasised the need for a more subtle and controlled driving technique. Fangio, with his iron self-control and uncanny skill, met this demand with contemptuous ease, to set a style that raised the art of racing driving to the height of a new science. 20 years earlier in 1937, that great French driver Jean-Pierre Wimille, then at the height of his fame, said of Fangio "I have seen at Buenos Aires a brilliant new driver, the day he has a real racing car to drive, he will perform miracles”.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


This website is unofficial and is not associated in any way with the Formula One group of companies. F1, FORMULA ONE, FORMULA 1, FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, GRAND PRIX and related marks are trade marks of Formula One Licensing B.V.