Insider 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I see today stories from Italy in the 'GuessPress' that Honda are way behind on engine development. My pal a Viry-Chatillon told me this weeks ago but I took it with the proverbial pinch of salt. However, the stories of a thirsty, badly underpowered V6 seem to match. Are Woking going to have to depend on a B-series Merc lump for 2015 or a re-jigged Renault PU? Has Alonso burned his bridges a little too soon? If the stories from Japan are true then McLaren are toast for third consecutive year. It seems certain now that K-Mag will get dumped unless he has some spectacular race results before the year end. Alonso and Jenson is a solid paring, no one can deny that but when do they get a car worthy of their talents? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I find that hard to Beleive,not saying you insider, I mean the stories, they have turbo expierence, just look at how quick the Formula Nippon or Super Formula or whatever they call it. The speed, turn in speed is incredible not that has to do with the engine as much as tyres but those cars run a Honda turbo and there bloody quick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Does Honda make Indycar turbo engines? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Yep and we know how quick they are Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 But on the other side rumors about Mercedes engine were true! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 We've known ever since Mercedes came into the sport as a Engine supplier that they've been quick. Adding a turbo has made no exception, still the fastest top end speed engine. Hondas own engine and the mugen-Honda engines were all very quick aswell, so why can't they follow the trend? They'll be fast, just watch formula Nippon. Just watch this onboard lap The cornering speed is imense. This is a 2014 spec Super Formula running a 2litre 4 cyclinder turbo charged engine pushing 542hp on minimum boost. Not bad for a 4, almost as powerful as a formula one car this year, so I have no doubt they'll be extremly quick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I understand what you mean! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 In F1 congfig, the Honda engine is apparently thirsty as hell. IndyCar Series engines are rev-limited to 10,300 rpm and produce approximately 650 hp while F1 spec is 15,000 rpm and there are the nuances of ERS to take into consideration as well. Fi is unleaded, Indy is Ethanol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Except that with the fuel flow limitation the F1 engine cannot get anywhere near 15,000 rpm. Ethanol has a lower specific energy than petrol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 That's true, just look at the footage I posted, there not much slower than a f1 car at all. Plus once you wind the boost up abit, they'll even be closer to a current spec f1 car. Why is everyone so "worried" about Honda? Is it because we're used to seeing them produce NA engines? Just bare in mind those little 1.6,1.8 and 2.0l vtec engines absolutly hammer. Ill be the first to say this. Mercedes now have a serious challenger to top end speed pu's. got a feeling Honda cars will be the ones to beat at circuits like spa and monza. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Who knows, rumour is meat and two veg in F1. The rumour appears to have started at Renault. How would they know? Maybe that is their hope. Only a few weeks ago the head of the Honda F1 program, Arai, was speaking about how the Honda PU will compete with Mercedes. Would he really be saying that if it was down on power and guzzling fuel? That was around the time it first went on the dyno. Remember RBR cutting holes in the RB10's bodywork during initial testing in an attempt to stop the thing from burning up? Flames coming out of the back, very few laps completed. A few weeks later Ricciardo took it to P2 in Melbourne. If there are problems with the engine, there are six months between now and its first appearance on the grid at the AGP. I guess we will find out. Eventually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Who knows, rumour is meat and two veg in F1. The rumour appears to have started at Renault. How would they know? Maybe that is their hope. Only a few weeks ago the head of the Honda F1 program, Arai, was speaking about how the Honda PU will compete with Mercedes. Would he really be saying that if it was down on power and guzzling fuel? That was around the time it first went on the dyno. Remember RBR cutting holes in the RB10's bodywork during initial testing in an attempt to stop the thing from burning up? Flames coming out of the back, very few laps completed. A few weeks later Ricciardo took it to P2 in Melbourne. If there are problems with the engine, there are six months between now and its first appearance on the grid at the AGP. I guess we will find out. Eventually. I accept all that is said here but if the stories were malicious I would have expected a statement from Honda at the very least unless they are purposely sandbagging which I doubt. The engine may be fine but the marriage with all the recovery system may be snagging progress. Who knows? Silence from Honda adds fuel to the fire though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah but they have already made it publically clear they are real positive it will not only challenge merc but beat them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Silence from me means I have heard all the noise, but I am ignoring it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Well, they would, wouldn't they? They also announced today that no driver decisions have been made and that it's all about Nando and Seb's availability. I would imagine Hamilton is in there somewhere too. Nando is hardly and investment for the future and Seb in not good enough IMO. Button has shown he has all the attributes of the others in spades and I am sure K-Mag would develop well. Never heard such crap in all my life, really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 It's like people want them to fail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jem of the Shire 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Oh dear I hope they're not really declaring they're going to beat Mercedes. It reminds me of BAR before they'd even turned a wheel in anger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Just watch that onboard footage I posted of a 2litre Honda turbo, I Beleive they will challenge merc straight away. Reliability is another question. But they must know there onto something if they think they can squeeze into the 5 engine limit with FA testing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Insider 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Just watch that onboard footage I posted of a 2litre Honda turbo, I Beleive they will challenge merc straight away. Reliability is another question. But they must know there onto something if they think they can squeeze into the 5 engine limit with FA testing. It isn't just the engine, my friend. It's the package and 2L is not 1.6L. These claims are worrying - kiss of death usually - and an image of the new engine is hardly a denial, is it. They also seem to have completely different idea of when the engine will debut. McLaren say end of 2014 season, Honda say jerez 2015. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Honda are now saying Abu Dhabi and have called bulls##t on the rumours. That pic of the new PU got me salivating. Looks mean nothing but it is lovely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah but they also have plenty of experience with 1.6l, that's where Honda and its vtec got famous for. I know it's completely different scenario when concidering street engines to formula one, but experience and execution is required nosy yet what your building. I think they will be the bees knees tbh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Honda are very strong on engineering, their race bikes are built like a swiss watch. I cannot wait. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmcee 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah that's right. Look at marques, 10 wins in a row are unheard of, Pedrosa is no slouch and is getting waxed. Get the right ingredient (rider/driver) and the machine is used to its full potential. Just like Mclaren are trying to do, lure the best driver to "adapt" the car around, there engines are well advanced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrisbaneAndy 0 Report post Posted October 1, 2014 I am hopeful for McLaren Honda or is it Honda McLaren? If they tip in enough cash I think Honda McLaren. McLaren have had a tough few years. They were fast but fragile up to 2012 but lately, they are slow and reliable. I like the ingredients now, Ron Dennis is a perfectionist and extremely driven. Promodrou is widely credited with RBR's aero supremacy, although some bloke called Newey had a hand in it, too. I do agree that they need a marquee driver, both for performance reasons and sponsor appeal. If that Honda PU goes as well as it looks Uncle Ron will have his pick of drivers for 2016. McLaren get a lot of criticism, my mate calls them the new Williams, although being Williams is not such a bad thing in 2014. I have admired and cheered for McLaren since I was a boy and to the naysayers all I can say is McLaren have won 25% of all Grand Prix entered, second only to Ferrari. On the pic, has anyone noticed anything about the turbocharger? I only see half of one, meaning the other half is at the other end of the engine with a n interconnecting drive shaft, a la Mercedes. A video of the engine will be released on October 6th. http://world.honda.com/motorsports/video/20141006/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 0 Report post Posted October 2, 2014 I would love to see Alonso in Mclaren Honda! I think he should do it, no matter good or bad car ! Ferrari, I believe, will not produce competitive car in next three years! They have new team that needs time to make something good! And i would love to see different colour scheme on Mclaren cars ! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
