Next Generation Engines, What will it be?

[Emmcee 0]

Bianchis was a simply racing incident, if any blame is to be laid, it's to be laid at the marshals doors as why was the crane still on circuit when it was green flag?

[Sakae 0]

Inverse can be argued; why was a green flag raised when crane was still there in the middle of removing a stationary vehicle? How much time takes to raise a flag (prematurely), as opposed to clear heavy equipment off the racing area? There is nothing simple on that situation IMO, and parameters of that incident exceeds "a simple racing accident" description, because its outcome could have been, and should have been avoided. Ensuring that cars must slow down could have been electronically controlled (mandated) from the central control panel many years ago (VSC), because this is not just a driver running his own luck, but people who enter racing space to do their job are at risk if a driver is negligent, and I am not blaming Bianchi that he was, because I have no tangible information regarding his situation. It is however IMO not too complicated to understand, that under conditions race in Japan was proceeding, if track conditions were assistive for one vehicle to deviate, any other vehicle that followed was exposed to the same risk. This scenario could have been on any list of safety concerns for many years now.

[radical-one 0]

3 hours ago, Sakae said:

I agree with you, but such insensitivity actually can be also observed in our lives outside of the F1 as well. We have become immune to heinous behavior and death because of daily occurrences in large quantities. When was it last time anyone blinked, or swallowed hard after reading Daily News? I am just hoping that F1 is not becoming either careless, or unnecessarily protective. After seeing Alonso's crash, that scene begs a question, whether drivers are now safe, or was he just lucky? Bianchi' incident suggests later.

Agree with you. The only difference is that in our daily driving it is called accident hat's why we pay insurance premiums to drive. In F1 it's part of their dangerous job and they are well paid for it's high risk. If one cares about their safety then they should not sign-up for the job and that includes all not just driver but all the pit crew included. 

[Emmcee 0]

2 hours ago, Sakae said:

Inverse can be argued; why was a green flag raised when crane was still there in the middle of removing a stationary vehicle? How much time takes to raise a flag (prematurely), as opposed to clear heavy equipment off the racing area? There is nothing simple on that situation IMO, and parameters of that incident exceeds "a simple racing accident" description, because its outcome could have been, and should have been avoided. Ensuring that cars must slow down could have been electronically controlled (mandated) from the central control panel many years ago (VSC), because this is not just a driver running his own luck, but people who enter racing space to do their job are at risk if a driver is negligent, and I am not blaming Bianchi that he was, because I have no tangible information regarding his situation. It is however IMO not too complicated to understand, that under conditions race in Japan was proceeding, if track conditions were assistive for one vehicle to deviate, any other vehicle that followed was exposed to the same risk. This scenario could have been on any list of safety concerns for many years now.

Yeah well said mate, but I can't help to feel it has nothing to do with Bianchi but more so along the lines of doing a very poor job to clear the circuit. It was quite odd as the marshals at Suzuka are very quick and good at there job, which brings me to another situation from the past when you would watch a race and you would always see a few abandoned cars on the side of the circuits from earlier retirements that would cause full safety car situations today yet in the past still go on and we never saw anything like the magnitude and violence Bianchis had. It all comes down to communication because at that critical moment before the incident happened, someone didn't do there job properly and what we got was the response to that, so IMO there is one maybe a couple out there that could've changed the situation if they did it properly to begin with. Just what I think anyway, doesn't mean I right.

[radical-one 0]

However, Bianci still was the one who coursed-out (as in) outside of the tracks and hit a truck or crane OUTSIDE the tracks. It's not like the work was going on Inside the tracks.

 Regardless of the rain condition, each driver should drive at the most optimal way without losing their control (went or dry). Drive at your own risk. If you lose control whether it's wet or dry, you lose. That's the price for being an F1 driver. 

Look what happened to Senna? He lost control and died. Regardless of what you hit outside the tracks, you lost it yourself. Had Bianci hit that crane In-tracks then I can agree with both of you. Heck he almost got someone workers killed there and who's fault would that been? Bianchi? 

[Emmcee 0]

What you mean? The crane was still on the location from sutils of so that location had already taken one car due to the wet conditions. Who knows, maybe a river formed there running of the slip on the cambered turns and he caught that and if he went, your a passenger then just like Brazil in 2003. As for senna, didn't he loose control because the steering column failed? That's what I remember happening, a failing steering column sent him of the circuit. Bianchis was rediculous. For it to go back to green and then yellow again like wtf? Should've been a safety period as soon as sutil went of as that barrier is relatively close to the circuit anyway not to mention it was also on the exit/outside of one corner that is part of a very fast section in the dry, that alone was enough to warrant a safety car IMO. Now they won't even drive when it's wet as we saw earlier this year.

[Sakae 0]

All reasons why Race Control should have a switch limiting all cars to some pit-lane like speed. Force the limit, because it is not only a driver making his own luck, but people working on the track, who are exposed. Somebody must safeguard them.   

[Emmcee 0]

Yep couldn't agree more, they used to have these at some kart events I went to and you had to fit the computer to your kart and race control had control of your kart in yellow flag situations. You were limited to about a qtr of your power and you could go flat but it just wouldn't responded until green came back.

[radical-one 0]

To each their own. To me, like in boxing - protect yourself at all times, don't expect the referee to keep your safety.

Drive at your own risk don't depend on stewards or anyone. In the end, it's your life own at stake. That's why they earn the big bucks not the stewards ( whom a lot of them are volunteers). Sorry for Bianchi but it's hard to put the blame on anyone else when he was the one at the wheel.

[radical-one 0]

With regards to halo -

Magnussen highlights Halo worry after fire

[Sakae 0]

True as you say. I must admit that until today I am not entirely certain how effective it is going to be in protecting driver from flying large objects, and what kind of those presumed to be? Loose wheel on short (broken) axle can still penetrate perimeter and hit driver's helmet.

[Emmcee 0]

5 hours ago, radical-one said:

To each their own. To me, like in boxing - protect yourself at all times, don't expect the referee to keep your safety.

Drive at your own risk don't depend on stewards or anyone. In the end, it's your life own at stake. That's why they earn the big bucks not the stewards ( whom a lot of them are volunteers). Sorry for Bianchi but it's hard to put the blame on anyone else when he was the one at the wheel.

Aqua planing like Bianchi did is far from the drivers control. You can't save them, basically impossible and impossible to know when it will bite to. You can do lap after lap in the wet and not have an issue, one lap you come up to a regular corner and take it like you did in previous wet laps only to loose the back end and just go for a ride. I just feel Bianchis was a freak accident that could've been avoided with common sense. Besides, a race driver will only slow down if he surley must and the only way is with yellow, red flags or a safety car. Aqua planing is when the car rides on top of the surface water instead of cutting through it and making contact with the road. Once that happens, the odds of regaining control are basically nil. So I can't help but to feel this is a result of poor judgement by allowing the race to keep going under "normal" conditions when machinery is 10 meters away with people running around attending an accident that now prooves to them that this particular corner in these conditions is pretty difficult.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I agree with your posts fully on this subject matter

 

nuff said!

[Sakae 0]

Question is, had Race Control activated a central speed limiter (switch)*, if Bianchi would have still aquaplaning? Assumption is, he would not.

 

*There is of course no such switch currently in existence, but could, and perhaps should be, IMO. Properly designed system, would eliminate need for SC. Switch would enforce mandated speed equivalent to pit lane pass (100 km/hr?) of all cars simultaneously, regardless of their positions.  From what I read, his family however thought that because overall conditions right from the beginning were really not the very best, that perhaps red flag should have been issued.

[radical-one 0]

16 hours ago, Emmcee said:

Aqua planing like Bianchi did is far from the drivers control. You can't save them, basically impossible and impossible to know when it will bite to. You can do lap after lap in the wet and not have an issue, one lap you come up to a regular corner and take it like you did in previous wet laps only to loose the back end and just go for a ride. I just feel Bianchis was a freak accident that could've been avoided with common sense. Besides, a race driver will only slow down if he surley must and the only way is with yellow, red flags or a safety car. Aqua planing is when the car rides on top of the surface water instead of cutting through it and making contact with the road. Once that happens, the odds of regaining control are basically nil. So I can't help but to feel this is a result of poor judgement by allowing the race to keep going under "normal" conditions when machinery is 10 meters away with people running around attending an accident that now prooves to them that this particular corner in these conditions is pretty difficult.

I thought I remember you saying or complaining a lot of times about the SC running in laps during rain instead of letting them race. And things like they get paid for the risk so the hell with HALO. Is this double standards?

 

[Emmcee 0]

No not at all and I prefer them to race in wet conditions but there had already been several car go of and one was being attended by marshals and large machinery, directly in the path if another car leaves the circuit in the same corner. That's why I beleive a safety car was warranted on this particular incident, to answer Sakaes question, no he would t have aquaplaned if the safety car or yellow was out as other cars that came round after Bianchi went of were quite slow and got round fine. The halo would've have done jack in this instance Radical and most likely would've decapitated him. So I don't see what your on about, just common sense there mate.