52 replies to this topic

[mikathegreat2]

Kubica has done well, this season! Especially in Barca which was a great race for him outpacing his team mate! I think Kubica & BMW Sauber has great potential this season though I do think Hamilton has done better though!

[Piotr]

spitfire, on May 22 2007, 04:37 PM, said:

Sausage boy better that King Midas?? Really?? Thats the second funniest thing I have read in the last decade!         

Lemmie guess - all you know about F1 is who took the podium and who qualified on the pole, right? Hamilton picked Kubica as the guy he will be watching out for during 2007. When in comparable cars, Kubica is consistently faster then Heidfeld. Just check his (comparable) lap times in qualifying for each race this year. Heidfeld outqualified him in the first two due to mistakes by Kubica's chief engineer-and that's who decides qualifying tactics, not the driver.
In Australia Kubica run 4th until his transmission gave out - are you suggesting that was his fault?
In the next GP everything went wrong-tranny, TC, Radio, and then Heidfeld clipped him.
In the third GP he had to drive a t car, because BMW could not fix his car in time, plus his fuel flap would not close.  Barcelona was actually the first GP this season when everything went OK, and-suprise! he OUTQUALIFIED Heidfeld and finished 4th right behind Ferraris and McLearens. Or are you suggesting that BMW is as fast as those two???? Because this would be an absolute astounding statement.

It cracks me up when so called f1 "experts" from various blogs completely forget Kubica or place him in the middle of a pack. The actual f1 experts- people who either run the teams, drive f1 cars, or used to do it and now make money based on their f1 knowledge pick Kubica either as equal to or just behind Hamilton i.e at worst a #2 rookie. So, excuse me, but your post is funny just because it shows your complete ignorance on how to judge a driver.
Nothing personal, though.

Edited by Piotr, 23 May 2007 - 05:19 AM.

[jemstride]

Kubica did well in Spain but it looked like Heidfeld would've been right with him if he hadnt had the problem in the pits.

Kubica shows on some occasions that he could be a race winner some day, Hamilton is proving it already. Yes having a mclaren helps, but at the moment there's no reason to suggest that Kubica is actually better

[Piotr]

jemstride, on May 23 2007, 06:57 AM, said:

Kubica did well in Spain but it looked like Heidfeld would've been right with him if he hadnt had the problem in the pits.

Kubica shows on some occasions that he could be a race winner some day, Hamilton is proving it already. Yes having a mclaren helps, but at the moment there's no reason to suggest that Kubica is actually better

I agree. Hamilton is probably marginally better, but not as much as the results would suggest

[Jenson_Rules]

I dislike both of them but Hamilton is so clearly head and shoulders above Kubica.

[-Rafa-]

kubica, on May 22 2007, 05:28 PM, said:

he will have won the World Championship within the next 5 years. if he doesnt ill eat my hat.

I'll hold you to that.

[Quiet One]

Piotr, on May 23 2007, 02:17 AM, said:

Lemmie guess - all you know about F1 is who took the podium and who qualified on the pole, right? Hamilton picked Kubica as the guy he will be watching out for during 2007. When in comparable cars, Kubica is consistently faster then Heidfeld. Just check his (comparable) lap times in qualifying for each race this year. Heidfeld outqualified him in the first two due to mistakes by Kubica's chief engineer-and that's who decides qualifying tactics, not the driver.
In Australia Kubica run 4th until his transmission gave out - are you suggesting that was his fault?
In the next GP everything went wrong-tranny, TC, Radio, and then Heidfeld clipped him.
In the third GP he had to drive a t car, because BMW could not fix his car in time, plus his fuel flap would not close.  Barcelona was actually the first GP this season when everything went OK, and-suprise! he OUTQUALIFIED Heidfeld and finished 4th right behind Ferraris and McLearens. Or are you suggesting that BMW is as fast as those two???? Because this would be an absolute astounding statement.

It cracks me up when so called f1 "experts" from various blogs completely forget Kubica or place him in the middle of a pack. The actual f1 experts- people who either run the teams, drive f1 cars, or used to do it and now make money based on their f1 knowledge pick Kubica either as equal to or just behind Hamilton i.e at worst a #2 rookie. So, excuse me, but your post is funny just because it shows your complete ignorance on how to judge a driver.
Nothing personal, though.

Welcome to the forums, Piotr! Sorry but I will start with a strong disagreement with you!
Like you said, nothing personal! I just don't like when someone starts his/her argument by disqualifying his/her opponents.
I am  going back to basics to remind you people of something ratther obvious: F1, unlike sports like tennis, rugby, football, etc. is very...VERY machine dependent. You will never see a football player justifying his poor performance because he was not adapted to his new pair of knickers. Hard to see a tennis player have a huge dip in performance just because he changed his t-shirt. In F1 you might be Senna or Fangio, but that won't help if you are driving a Spyker. So far, the obvious part.
What is not so obvious is that a drivers brilliance is not a fixed, immutable quantity. You can shine with a Spyker, just because it fits your driving style better. "Shining" in this case, will simply mean that you will outperform consistently your teammate. Fisichella is a paradigmatic case. He "shone" at Jordan, yet he is barely average at Renault. Trulli looked like a  great driver, so did Ralf. Look at them now! DC last year was painful to see, now he looks like the world's eight marvel. Is it all just driver-related?
So, judging a driver is always a tricky thing. Somethings, though, can't be denied. Alonso, Raikkonen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Hamilton, <insert your favorite driver here>. They all  have talent, BUT THE CAR MAY MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. IT MAY HELP YOUR TALENTS OR HINDER THEM. So, saying driver A is better than driver B (except extreme cases like poor old Ide) is usually a mix of hope about his talents and mere bias.
As a final comment, when it cames to these kind of arguments, derisive words to people who don't share your POV tend to show more the arrogance from your part than ignorance from the other part.
The Quiet One has spoken

[Jez]

Sweet Mother of Jesus Give me Monaco!

Edit- Nicely put Quiet One

Edited by Jez, 23 May 2007 - 01:29 PM.

[pabloh20]

Quiet One, on May 23 2007, 01:58 PM, said:

As a final comment, when it cames to these kind of arguments, derisive words to people who don't share your POV tend to show more the arrogance from your part than ignorance from the other part.
The Quiet One has spoken

I remember the good old days when you were actually 'The Quiet One' !!  Well, I suppose I'll have to agree with you, you baldy old coot!

<Looks at what Andres said about derisive comments>

D'oh!!  

Just kidding - very well put, Sir!  

[Max Mosley]

Can we call him the Mealy-Mouthed One instead?  Can we?  Please? (I like the insults and derogatory comments...)

[Quiet One]

Murray Walker, on May 23 2007, 11:22 AM, said:

Can we call him the Mealy-Mouthed One instead?  Can we?  Please? (I like the insults and derogatory comments...)

Of course you like them you worthless piece of bellybutton lint!

[Piotr]

Jenson_Rules!!!, on May 23 2007, 08:42 AM, said:

I dislike both of them but Hamilton is so clearly head and shoulders above Kubica.

Well, I noticed that British commentators claim Kubica makes mistakes- specifically when his car does not perform well (say, when he hits gravel trap when his TC goes on a fritz)- but give Hamilton a free pass, when he, for instance, misses an apex on an easy turn- 3 times in a a row! Based on that, yes, he is head and shoulders above Kubica. Again, I think Hamilton IS better than Kubica, but not by much. Would Kubica perform as well given a ride in a Ferrari or McLaren? Probably not, but it would be close. He IS unpredictable, but he had really lousy luck this season. Also, I don't understand WHY Theissen gave a rookie driver a rookie chief engineer??

Edited by Piotr, 29 May 2007 - 04:21 AM.

[Piotr]

Quiet One, on May 23 2007, 08:58 AM, said:

Welcome to the forums, Piotr! Sorry but I will start with a strong disagreement with you!
Like you said, nothing personal! I just don't like when someone starts his/her argument by disqualifying his/her opponents.
I am going back to basics to remind you people of something ratther obvious: F1, unlike sports like tennis, rugby, football, etc. is very...VERY machine dependent. You will never see a football player justifying his poor performance because he was not adapted to his new pair of knickers. Hard to see a tennis player have a huge dip in performance just because he changed his t-shirt. In F1 you might be Senna or Fangio, but that won't help if you are driving a Spyker. So far, the obvious part.
What is not so obvious is that a drivers brilliance is not a fixed, immutable quantity. You can shine with a Spyker, just because it fits your driving style better. "Shining" in this case, will simply mean that you will outperform consistently your teammate. Fisichella is a paradigmatic case. He "shone" at Jordan, yet he is barely average at Renault. Trulli looked like a great driver, so did Ralf. Look at them now! DC last year was painful to see, now he looks like the world's eight marvel. Is it all just driver-related?
So, judging a driver is always a tricky thing. Somethings, though, can't be denied. Alonso, Raikkonen, Kubica, Heidfeld, Hamilton, <insert your favorite driver here>. They all have talent, BUT THE CAR MAY MAKE THE DIFFERENCE. IT MAY HELP YOUR TALENTS OR HINDER THEM. So, saying driver A is better than driver B (except extreme cases like poor old Ide) is usually a mix of hope about his talents and mere bias.
As a final comment, when it cames to these kind of arguments, derisive words to people who don't share your POV tend to show more the arrogance from your part than ignorance from the other part.
The Quiet One has spoken

OK, chastised, I'll go and stand in my corner now.
Sorry, you are right. Gotta get less emotional about things.. Valium, I need valium... No, Scotch! Where is my McClelland's??

[Piotr]

oops, posted twice

Edited by Piotr, 29 May 2007 - 04:17 AM.

[zdzisio]

Piotr, on May 29 2007, 04:13 AM, said:

I don't understand WHY Theissen gave a rookie driver a rookie chief engineer??

You have to bear in mind that this season is a part of a bigger puzzle. Entering F1 in 2000 BMW was a company that wanted to be part of the top team, not  one in the middle of the pack . That is why they started supplying engines to Williams - because this team was nice prospect. But when after being third team two years in a row and then second  they fell to 4 and then to 5  it was exactly the same reason they stopped this cooperation, and bought  Sauber. Theissen does not take this season very seriously.  He has talked about it in press numerous times . His goal is to get on top in two years time, not now. Today's results are only important as a measure of the pace to that goal. Mehdi Ahmadi is not THAT rookie  - he is new to being race engeneer in F1 but he has been in motorsport for quite a while. But still what counts for MT is result in 2009, and then  neither him or Kubica are rookies, right ? Giampaolo Dall'Ara on the other hand if he stays at BMW is going to be great guy to take care of Vettel.

Edited by zdzisio, 29 May 2007 - 06:41 AM.

[Quiet One]

Piotr, on May 29 2007, 01:16 AM, said:

OK, chastised, I'll go and stand in my corner now.
Sorry, you are right. Gotta get less emotional about things.. Valium, I need valium... No, Scotch! Where is my McClelland's??

Didn't mean to sound like that. Now stop it and pass the whisky!
Anyways, you are right about the differences between Kubica and Hamilton and their mistakes. Bias is the name of the game!

[Piotr]

Quiet One, on May 29 2007, 07:28 AM, said:

Didn't mean to sound like that. Now stop it and pass the whisky!
Anyways, you are right about the differences between Kubica and Hamilton and their mistakes. Bias is the name of the game!

Right-o! But, share my McClelland's??? hmmm... I don't think I know you well enough...

[Piotr]

zdzisio, on May 29 2007, 02:40 AM, said:

You have to bear in mind that this season is a part of a bigger puzzle. Entering F1 in 2000 BMW was a company that wanted to be part of the top team, not one in the middle of the pack . That is why they started supplying engines to Williams - because this team was nice prospect. But when after being third team two years in a row and then second they fell to 4 and then to 5 it was exactly the same reason they stopped this cooperation, and bought Sauber. Theissen does not take this season very seriously. He has talked about it in press numerous times . His goal is to get on top in two years time, not now. Today's results are only important as a measure of the pace to that goal. Mehdi Ahmadi is not THAT rookie - he is new to being race engeneer in F1 but he has been in motorsport for quite a while. But still what counts for MT is result in 2009, and then neither him or Kubica are rookies, right ? Giampaolo Dall'Ara on the other hand if he stays at BMW is going to be great guy to take care of Vettel.

Point taken. And yes, Theissen did point out to 2009 many times. However, I believe they are doing so well, that this timetable may change.  I think Kubica is achieveing hell of a lot for a rookie. It irks me when people write him off. On ITV they predicted he'll be in 9th or 10th, or completely outside the top 12!!! now that's just sheer stupidity. Also, the reason Nick is at the top of his form is because Kubica is just about ready to take over. And we are talking Veteran vs rookie. Anyway, I'm having fun with the first Polish f1 driver ever (I made my first f1 scarp book for 1973 - I'm, OLD! ) this year!

[Piotr]

another double-post

Edited by Piotr, 30 May 2007 - 01:19 AM.

[reds88]

Kubica finished ahead of heidfield in Monaco. Another good job by the young Polish driver. In my opinion I just think in a few years time, we might see Kubica challenging for a title if BMW could make the next step up. The next step is the hardest for BMW, they need to find something so that they can match with front runners Ferrari and Mclaren. As for kubica vs hamilton, I do think hamilton is better than kubica but my point of view is certainly biased as I'm a Mclaren supporter.

[milaszewski]

reds88, on May 30 2007, 07:02 AM, said:

Kubica finished ahead of heidfield in Monaco.

...and despite of going with 1stop strategy, he clocked 3rd best time in the race
Probably would have been ahead of Massa on 2 stop strategy.

[Piotr]

milaszewski, on May 31 2007, 08:46 PM, said:

...and despite of going with 1stop strategy, he clocked 3rd best time in the race
Probably would have been ahead of Massa on 2 stop strategy.

Great point! I forgot about that. Robert even said that in the post race press conference.

[jemstride]

'probably' doesnt mean anything in F1. Kubica didnt beat Massa so stop trying to convince people that he could've done cos not a lot of people will believe you. People will only think that you are clearly FAR too pro-Kubica and not take your opinions seriously