15 replies to this topic

[Bro.]

As we discussed yesterday, the future of Formula One isn’t looking too healthy at this particular point in time and apart from the three teams preciously mentioned, Prodrive, Super Aguri and Toro Rosso, who are all dependant on approval to run complete customer cars, there is another team already on the grid that could also opt to pull out if things don’t start dramatically improving, and soon.



Everyone is well aware that the giant expectations that came with Toyota when they entered the sport have yet to materialize and year after year, very little seems to change. They have secured the odd podium here and there, but as for that first win, it is still very far from materializing.



Take China for example, once again the Cologne based squad went home empty handed. Ralf Schumacher had a strong qualifying session, ending up in sixth place on the grid, but the German racer also had a very eventful race. In the second corner he spun to avoid the Red Bull of Mark Webber, then he spun in the fight with Tonio Liuzzi and finally he spun with dry tyres on a wet spot of the Shanghai circuit.



As our spies in China confirmed, Ralf’s time at Toyota and probably in Formula One is over. Timo Glock will replace him if Renault does not send Kovalainen there instead to make room for Alonso, but the Finn does not want to go there and he has good reasons not to, because according to Ralf there are no signs that the situation will ever get any better.



The key people, Yamashina and Vasselon, will stay and they will carry on lying to themselves by generating charts that prove Toyota is, together with BMW, the third fastest car on the grid. Whether Timo Glock will find good fortunes here, is also a very big question mark. There are strong signs that if they cannot score podium positions next year, Toyota may close the whole thing down after the 2008 season and Williams will become a type of satellite factory team for the Japanese engine giant instead.

[goferrarigo]

Isn't this a more F1 disscussion topic than a technical one??

[monza gorilla]

Technically, yes.

[Rainmaster]

I don't give one iota about Toyota. Or any for that matter.

[LabradoRacer]

"There F1 Heroics"


2 mistakes.

[Autumnpuma]

The Japanese mindset does not accept surrender easily. I forsee a total thrashing before Toyota will retreat.

[c21]

Autumnpuma, on Oct 12 2007, 09:15 PM, said:

The Japanese mindset does not accept surrender easily. I forsee a total thrashing before Toyota will retreat.

Dont worry, it will come.

I think they should stop wasting everybody's time and do something useful.

Time to take Le Mans and rallying on again.

With the facilities they have, the could take on the ALMS, LMS and the WRC at the same time.

They should do something that is more useful to their brand

[Autumnpuma]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has Toyota won anything that requires a large bit of aero knowledge? Engineering-wise they are brilliant and they have all the money in the world, but they seem to not understand how air should flow around a chassis...

[monza gorilla]

Oddly enough, their Le Mans car was a masterpiece of aerodynamics. Brundle blitzed the field but it was reliability that was missing. Strange for a Toyota. That was when Ove was still in charge though, and Cologne was autonomous. And that is why they now have problems.

[Bro.]

What year did Martin do this achievement?
was it 2001?

[monza gorilla]

1999. He was leading comfortably, but had hydraulic problems which resulted in him falling off the road. Also, in 1998, he took the pole with a lap of 3' 29" (no one has bettered it since then) in the Toyota but again failed to finish. Luck has never been his strong point.
But the thrust of my argument is that Toyota can (or could?) produce superb racing cars if  the guys at Cologne are left to get on with it, without interference from Japan.

[Rainmaster]

monza gorilla, on Oct 13 2007, 01:32 PM, said:

1999. He was leading comfortably, but had hydraulic problems which resulted in him falling off the road. Also, in 1998, he took the pole with a lap of 3' 29" (no one has bettered it since then) in the Toyota but again failed to finish. Luck has never been his strong point.
But the thrust of my argument is that Toyota can (or could?) produce superb racing cars if the guys at Cologne are left to get on with it, without interference from Japan.

Yes I agree. I think Nick Fry was trying to have something arranged to this affect, some kind of merger of their personal in cologne with those in Japan. That was last year though, I've heard nothing since, so I take it his proposal was not well recieved.

Edited by rainmaster, 13 October 2007 - 04:20 PM.

[Bro.]

Yeah surprising considering that if you buy a Toyota usually they give you reliaberlity.
If I were Martin considering that he was leading the race he should have traded it in for a Toyota HiLux ute.
That would have got him to the end and would have easily have driven him back to his house in Britain!

But when Toyota entered the fray back in 2002, we did expect them to be genuine front runners by now.
Letting mike go was silly although Pascal Vaselon I think has done a good steady job this season as the successor of Mike.
So yeah and letting Christiano Da Matta go to was unfair considering that he didnt really have the chance to show how good he is and I fear that Sebastien Bourdais will suffer the same fate next year at STR.
So there is an immense amount of pressure on Pascal Vaselon next season do design a car that sticks to the road at all times.

But this season has shown how badly Toyota are in there own faces because the Williams Team with the same engines and with a lot less of a budget was wiped toyota off the floor this year and its really what Toyota needed I think so that way they know where there weak.

[goferrarigo]

Bro., on Oct 13 2007, 08:05 AM, said:

Yeah surprising considering that if you buy a Toyota usually they give you reliaberlity.
If I were Martin considering that he was leading the race he should have traded it in for a Toyota HiLux ute.
That would have got him to the end and would have easily have driven him back to his house in Britain!

But when Toyota entered the fray back in 2002, we did expect them to be genuine front runners by now.
Letting mike go was silly although Pascal Vaselon I think has done a good steady job this season as the successor of Mike.
So yeah and letting Christiano Da Matta go to was unfair considering that he didnt really have the chance to show how good he is and I fear that Sebastien Bourdais will suffer the same fate next year at STR.
So there is an immense amount of pressure on Pascal Vaselon next season do design a car that sticks to the road at all times.

But this season has shown how badly Toyota are in there own faces because the Williams Team with the same engines and with a lot less of a budget was wiped toyota off the floor this year and its really what Toyota needed I think so that way they know where there weak.

Same can be said for Honda And Super Aguri

[Bro.]

oh yes, absolutely.
Until Honda decided that enough was enough and took selfish matters into there own hands.

[DOF_power]

How isn't F1 healthy right now ?!

1] Toyota isn't going anywhere.

2] Brazil 2008 will be the most watched F1 race ever.

3] Customer cars, we had them before, until they were banned in 1984. Rob Walker a was famous privateer using Copper and Lotus cars, Tyrell used Matras (and won both championships in 1969 with J. Stewart) then Shadows till they made their own, and so on.

4] Spy-gate affaires, we had them before, like the Shadow-Arrows affaire in the 70s or Ferrari-Lola in the 60s and so on.