115 replies to this topic

[HandyNZL]

Bro., on Jan 25 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

Its not that bad of an eyesore to look at but in the top picture it is understeering quite badly.
So with that being the case, and with Honda's biggest problem last season being understeer, it looks like another battling season for Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello, in car Number 16 and 17 Respectively.

How do you tell it is understeering from a still photo?

[KazamaS15]

HandyNZL, on Jan 25 2008, 08:23 PM, said:

How do you tell it is understeering from a still photo?

You can't. It is impossible unless you see the tires locked up and smoking, while the driver is applying full lock.

[KazamaS15]

These are pictures of the 2008 RA108.

Attached Files

•  RA1081.jpg   36.96K   12 downloads
•  ra1082.jpg   30.57K   7 downloads
•  ra1083.jpg   38.8K   11 downloads

[aussief1]

New Honda better than old says Barrichello

    
Jan.25 (GMM)  Rubens Barrichello has cautiously assessed Honda's new car for 2008, the RA108, as better than its abysmal predecessor.

The Brazilian veteran gave the unliveried  single seater its track debut at Valencia on Wednesday, languishing at the bottom of the time sheets with a best lap some 3.5 seconds shy of the pace.

A day later, in teammate Jenson Button's hands, the RA108 was nearly a second quicker, but still outpaced by every rival team at the Spanish group test.

"I'm certain that this car is better than the 2007 one because it's difficult to do worse," Barrichello, 35, told the Italian magazine La Gazzetta dello Sport after trying the car for the first time.

"Lap times were slow but also because on the first day it made no sense to push too hard," he added.

"In any case we are awaiting the new aerodynamics," Barrichello said.

He also explained that the Brackley based team experienced normal shakedown gremlins with the new car, but confirmed that the RA108 already feels better than its predecessor under braking.

Source:http://www.totalf1.c...ys_Barrichello/

[Bro.]

ykickamoocow, on Jan 25 2008, 09:12 PM, said:

I stuffed up. Those are of the old car. The new cars photo is futher down the page.

.
Lucky, I was going to say they are already in trouble
Oh wait, I did say that .

[Bro.]

HandyNZL, on Jan 26 2008, 07:23 AM, said:

How do you tell it is understeering from a still photo?

Look at the steering wheel, Look at how hard Alex is turning the steering wheel.
And look at the tyres, there barely turning right, its almost going straight.
In my opinion.

[KazamaS15]

Bro., on Jan 26 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Look at the steering wheel, Look at how hard Alex is turning the steering wheel.
And look at the tyres, there barely turning right, its almost going straight.
In my opinion.

The steering wheel and tyres work in unison. If you turn the steering wheel a certain amount, the tyres will move a certain amount.

[Bro.]

I understand whare your comming from Kazama but thats sort of what your explaining with the tyres and steering wheel working in unison, but that honda with the amount of lock Wurz has on the steering wheel and with the Tyres Turning but not nearly as much as his hand movement, I think thats what you call Understeer.

But anyways I dont want to start a evil discussion I just explaining what I think that I can see in the Honda, And in that corner I can see in that Photo blantant understeer.

In My Opinion.
And lets be honest YKick did say that thats last seasons Honda which suffered an awful amount of Understeer all last year.

[hawkins11]

That new car just looks slow, plus the front wing is nothing like what the other teams are doing. So unless Honda have some new areo route that no one else has figured out yet (snowball and hell spring to mind) its going to be another tough year

[KazamaS15]

Bro., on Jan 27 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

I understand whare your comming from Kazama but thats sort of what your explaining with the tyres and steering wheel working in unison, but that honda with the amount of lock Wurz has on the steering wheel and with the Tyres Turning but not nearly as much as his hand movement, I think thats what you call Understeer.

But anyways I dont want to start a evil discussion I just explaining what I think that I can see in the Honda, And in that corner I can see in that Photo blantant understeer.

In My Opinion.
And lets be honest YKick did say that thats last seasons Honda which suffered an awful amount of Understeer all last year.

I couldn't understand what you said but okay, I agree with whatever you said. Just don't capitalize some unnecessary words in a middle of a sentence.

[Autumnpuma]

hawkins11, on Jan 27 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

That new car just looks slow, plus the front wing is nothing like what the other teams are doing. So unless Honda have some new areo route that no one else has figured out yet (snowball and hell spring to mind) its going to be another tough year

I hate all the aero greeblies but I do have to agree with you...that car doesn't look fast. The big advantage in using the 'bridge', as I understand it, is to get more front-end grip...perhaps Honda have figured a clever way with ballast and suspension geometry to get that grip without the 'bridge'?

It's also possible that they are doing comparisons and the 'bridge' will appear in the next few tests after they've shaken down the chassis as is. That way they could better assess the effectiveness of the front wing.

[Autumnpuma]

KazamaS15, on Jan 27 2008, 12:28 PM, said:

I couldn't understand what you said but okay, I agree with whatever you said. Just don't capitalize some unnecessary words in a middle of a sentence.

Hm. Understeer is so important that it should always be capitalized. Honda however....

[KazamaS15]

Autumnpuma, on Jan 28 2008, 10:02 PM, said:

Hm. Understeer is so important that it should always be capitalized. Honda however....

I was just teasing. You cannot detect sarcasm on a computer very easily. My apologies.

[Autumnpuma]

KazamaS15, on Jan 28 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

I was just teasing. You cannot detect sarcasm on a computer very easily. My apologies.

I figured as much, but it seemed a good springboard to use for my Honduh insult

[aussief1]

Autumnpuma, on Jan 29 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

It's also possible that they are doing comparisons and the 'bridge' will appear in the next few tests after they've shaken down the chassis as is. That way they could better assess the effectiveness of the front wing.

I think the RA108 will be one of few cars that are not going to adopt the McLaren bridge wing concept. The monocoque of the RA108 is far to high for the bridge wing concept to work IMO.

Your thoughts???

[Sato]

You make a good point, if they were to have the McLaren styled bridge wing it'd look very odd and could very well not work at all.

Edited by Sato, 29 January 2008 - 03:39 AM.

[KazamaS15]

Sato, on Jan 29 2008, 03:38 AM, said:

You make a good point, if they were to have the McLaren styled bridge wing it'd look very odd and could very well not work at all.

Haha, I can imagine them trying on the bridge wing and the drivers later complaining about visibility.

[HandyNZL]

They'll end up with an Arrows X-Wing....

Back to the understeer, it's impossible to ascertain it from a still photo....understeer is when the steering wheel is turned, the wheels are turned in, and the car goes straight...it has zip to do with the steering wheel lock ratio.

My question wasn't asking "how you can tell" but merely stating that you can not tell from a still photo...unless said driver is about to careen off of said track with said wheels all turned towards the said track, and said driver obviously shouting "awww farrrrrrck" under said helmet said driver is said to be wearing.

[aussief1]

HandyNZL, on Jan 29 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

They'll end up with an Arrows X-Wing....

I was thinking the exact same thing after reading Sato's post how funny

I think that was on the Arrows A23 (at Monaco) the car the nose of the RA108 nose cone resembles

HandyNZL, on Jan 29 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

My question wasn't asking "how you can tell" but merely stating that you can not tell from a still photo...unless said driver is about to careen off of said track with said wheels all turned towards the said track, and said driver obviously shouting "awww farrrrrrck" under said helmet said driver is said to be wearing.

I agree,

I've kept quite on the understeer photo saga thus far, i'll butt in here with you cannot tell from a picture the understeer motion of a car. Because you cannot tell that the front wheels are slipping on the track in relation to the steering wheel, because they are the wheels that turn. Unlike the rear wheels where you can see oversteer a little better because they run true to the front of the car and you can see the steering correction from the driver.

[Sato]

I reckon you can have a fair idea if it's understeering from a still photo. You won't always be right, but theres a good chance, IMO.

[hookedon-f1]

Could this be the new livery- if so its worse than last year...... oh dear

http://www.f1-racing..._more_mistakes/

[2//horns]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/64887

Quote

"The car you see here is very much a base spec, which was established back in October/November and you will see over the next few months before we get to Melbourne some quite dramatic changes in the car - a new engine cover, new floor, new wings, new bargeboards and area around there. So this is very much a starting spec and there is a good programme before Melbourne."

Thus why I'll keep a keen eye on their progress. Honda for me have always been a lovely participant of motor sport and a team that I hope can get themselves out of this damn deep hole.

Edited by 2//horns, 29 January 2008 - 12:44 PM.

[la force supreme des mclaren]

KazamaS15, on Jan 26 2008, 02:12 AM, said:

You can't. It is impossible unless you see the tires locked up and smoking, while the driver is applying full lock.

 r_2008_01_24T143806_4.jpg   187.7K   10 downloads

Is this understeer or oversteer?

[la force supreme des mclaren]

Here's another one with Lewis at Monza(oversteer)...

 20071002_1024x768.jpg   119.26K   11 downloads

so you can tell whether it's an oversteer or understeer from a still picture.

Edited by la force supreme des mclaren, 29 January 2008 - 12:59 PM.

[2//horns]

2//horns, on Jan 29 2008, 11:43 PM, said:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/64887



Thus why I'll keep a keen eye on their progress. Honda for me have always been a lovely participant of motor sport and a team that I hope can get themselves out of this damn deep hole.

To further add on my post. The aspect of personal has been a strong suit toward an obligation of turnaround and I couldn't agree more. The obvious in Ross Brawn has been acknowledged, though it is another enlighting individual that really has my interest, Alex Wurz. A driver that most would be aware of as an influential figure toward the technical development, its ideas, growth and solutions. He seems to have fallen into the shadows and intrigue of Ross Brawn at Honda, but boy oh boy, isn't he a very handy candidate when your looking to turn things around!

[hookedon-f1]

2//horns, on Jan 29 2008, 01:17 PM, said:

To further add on my post. The aspect of personal has been a strong suit toward an obligation of turnaround and I couldn't agree more. The obvious in Ross Brawn has been acknowledged, though it is another enlighting individual that really has my interest, Alex Wurz. A driver that most would be aware of as an influential figure toward the technical development, its ideas, growth and solutions. He seems to have fallen into the shadows and intrigue of Ross Brawn at Honda, but boy oh boy, isn't he a very handy candidate when your looking to turn things around!

Couldnt agree more

[medilloni]

hookedon-f1, on Jan 29 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

Couldnt agree more

I could   

They will progress steadily this year - and unlike other years when they've lost direction - I believe they've now put things into place that will see the growth controlled and rolled into next year too.  As 2//horns said earlier, the Wurz move was a good one, Brawn's (possibly) strongest atribute is his ability to provide the same direction and determination for everyone, Honda's and BAR's biggest single failure so far.

As for the new livery, I like the retro look (thin stripes; car and drivers overalls) and even if you don't like the Earth theme - it's at least making the effort to be *greener, and that's got to help the sport last longer.  

Interesting to hear what they say about the car they tested last week -  made from bits off the floor so systems could be tested, sounds like it's only the high front that is staying....



No.  I'm not a green-type person.

[David Adams]

Seen the release launch pictures, the launch car had the low front wing aspect all others have got too, seems Honda have been designing till the last second to get this car out, I think last year they had 2 cars at the first test session, glad to see they are pulling out all the stops this season :-)

[HandyNZL]

Those pics of Lewis are both oversteer.

I quite like the new livery on the Honda....won't give it the 4-secs they need, but I like the racing stripes on the nose

[KazamaS15]

2008 RA108

Attached Files

•  ra108gre.jpg   64.08K   6 downloads
•  ra108gree.jpg   54.03K   9 downloads
•  ra108green.jpg   65.05K   5 downloads
•  ra108greens.jpg   66.55K   15 downloads

Edited by KazamaS15, 29 January 2008 - 08:24 PM.