115 replies to this topic

[KazamaS15]

la force supreme des mclaren, on Jan 29 2008, 12:56 PM, said:

Here's another one with Lewis at Monza(oversteer)...

20071002_1024x768.jpg

so you can tell whether it's an oversteer or understeer from a still picture.

No, I said you cannot tell if the car is understeering from a still picture. But you can see if the car is oversteering. They are the opposites of each other so therefore you cannot compare them.

[KazamaS15]

From the pictures you provided of Lewis Hamilton, you cannot tell that he has oversteer. We can only presume by looking at the backround. Smoke would help to come to a conclusion but there is none in the pictures you posted. I think that Lewis Hamilton has oversteer in those pictures because I can look at the rumblestrips and the asphalt.

[Autumnpuma]

Sato, on Jan 29 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

I reckon you can have a fair idea if it's understeering from a still photo. You won't always be right, but theres a good chance, IMO.

KazamaS15, on Jan 29 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

No, I said you cannot tell if the car is understeering from a still picture. But you can see if the car is oversteering. They are the opposites of each other so therefore you cannot compare them.

KazamaS15, on Jan 29 2008, 12:31 PM, said:

From the pictures you provided of Lewis Hamilton, you cannot tell that he has oversteer. We can only presume by looking at the backround. Smoke would help to come to a conclusion but there is none in the pictures you posted. I think that Lewis Hamilton has oversteer in those pictures because I can look at the rumblestrips and the asphalt.

You can indeed tell over from understeer using a still photo. Oversteer is easier to tell because you can more easily see the back-end kicking out. Now to tell understeer you need to know a few things first. 1) How the driver works the wheel; specifically how he enters a corner 2) What corner is being attacked 3) Is the driver running a fast lap. Once you know these things you can tell understeer. You cannot tell just by looking at the steering lock and comparing it to the tyre position...many drivers use a different steering ratio, often unique for each track. In the photo shown, we see Wurz at the wheel, right? Wurz takes a standard entry and he seems a bit wide in the photo. I would say he has some mild understeer, but I don't know if he's running fast or not. If he's running slow, then you can't tell sh!t from that photo.

[aussief1]

la force supreme des mclaren, on Jan 29 2008, 10:52 PM, said:

r_2008_0...143806_4.jpg

Is this understeer or oversteer?

la force supreme des mclaren, on Jan 29 2008, 10:56 PM, said:

Here's another one with Lewis at Monza(oversteer)...

20071002_1024x768.jpg

so you can tell whether it's an oversteer or understeer from a still picture.

Lewis's MP4-22 is in a oversteering motion. Unless he has studdenly decided to turn left around a right hand corner!!!!! You have tell tail signs of oversteer because the rear wheels run true and you can see driver correction and the direction of the corner.

[aussief1]

Autumnpuma, on Jan 30 2008, 07:33 AM, said:

You can indeed tell over from understeer using a still photo. Oversteer is easier to tell because you can more easily see the back-end kicking out. Now to tell understeer you need to know a few things first. 1) How the driver works the wheel; specifically how he enters a corner 2) What corner is being attacked 3) Is the driver running a fast lap. Once you know these things you can tell understeer. You cannot tell just by looking at the steering lock and comparing it to the tyre position...many drivers use a different steering ratio, often unique for each track. In the photo shown, we see Wurz at the wheel, right? Wurz takes a standard entry and he seems a bit wide in the photo. I would say he has some mild understeer, but I don't know if he's running fast or not. If he's running slow, then you can't tell sh!t from that photo.

That's the thing you do not get a sense of speed from a picture. All you can have all the front end understeering shots of a car you like but if you cannot establish the speed you cannot say the car is understeering. Likewise I will admit with oversteer the driver could well be returning to the track after an off and be turning the opposite way to the corner but alot easier to tell the difference IMO.

This is a funny sort of arguement

[goferrarigo]

Back to the topic.

The Honda livery IMO looks pretty decent...

[KazamaS15]

You guys just restated what I said. lol

[Jez]

That new livery ain't bad. Ain't great either imo, but better than last years garbage truck

[jackgarrett]

HandyNZL, on Jan 26 2008, 06:23 AM, said:

How do you tell it is understeering from a still photo?

he can't, he can only tell if its not oversterring, and theres a difference between understeering and not oversteering.

and on topic i like the new look, with green racing strips, woot!

Edited by jackgarrett, 30 January 2008 - 02:20 AM.

[aussief1]

Jez, on Jan 30 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

That new livery ain't bad. Ain't great either imo, but better than last years garbage truck

+ 1 Agreed

[goferrarigo]

KazamaS15, on Jan 29 2008, 07:00 PM, said:

You guys just restated what I said. lol

Yeah. Timing is what matters the most.  

[Sato]

I actually prefer the RA107's livery.... *Is a freak*

[Bro.]

aussief1, on Jan 30 2008, 08:41 AM, said:

That's the thing you do not get a sense of speed from a picture. All you can have all the front end understeering shots of a car you like but if you cannot establish the speed you cannot say the car is understeering. Likewise I will admit with oversteer the driver could well be returning to the track after an off and be turning the opposite way to the corner but alot easier to tell the difference IMO.

This is a funny sort of arguement

I know. Ive had a 2 week sabbatical From this website and I have come back and all I mentioned was that I think I can see understeer (and I still can  Because Martin Brundle Taught me   )  and im being Bombarded.

Nathan I thought we were Bro's?

[Bro.]

Autumnpuma, on Jan 30 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

You can indeed tell over from understeer using a still photo. Oversteer is easier to tell because you can more easily see the back-end kicking out. Now to tell understeer you need to know a few things first. 1) How the driver works the wheel; specifically how he enters a corner 2) What corner is being attacked 3) Is the driver running a fast lap. Once you know these things you can tell understeer. You cannot tell just by looking at the steering lock and comparing it to the tyre position...many drivers use a different steering ratio, often unique for each track. In the photo shown, we see Wurz at the wheel, right? Wurz takes a standard entry and he seems a bit wide in the photo. I would say he has some mild understeer, but I don't know if he's running fast or not. If he's running slow, then you can't tell sh!t from that photo.

And yes I can Poo from a photo, and that Honda the RA107 or whatever they called it, was a crappy car.
Maybe The Honda  needs a wheel alignment?
Don't forget we are talking about last seasons Honda which had understeer Galore.

BTW The new livery is Tops.

and BTW also I didnt mean to start a bombarded conversation which is open field day on me .

[hawkins11]

Have to say the topic really doesn't stand for much on this site......anyway i like the new livery they dont call them racing stripes for nothing. i thought the whole planet earth photo was ill concieved last year, its a much better design now. Still think the car will be slow though

Edited by hawkins11, 30 January 2008 - 06:42 PM.

[5P33D3V1L]

Sato, on Jan 30 2008, 03:58 AM, said:

I actually prefer the RA107's livery.... *Is a freak*

I agree actually,

This new livery is one of the worst looking cars Ive ever seen. It doesnt even look like an F1 car, more like a GP2 car.

[goferrarigo]

5P33D3V1L, on Jan 30 2008, 01:42 PM, said:

I agree actually,

This new livery is one of the worst looking cars Ive ever seen. It doesnt even look like an F1 car, more like a GP2 car.

And last years car looked like a joke not a car...

[rumblestrip]

KazamaS15, on Jan 29 2008, 03:23 PM, said:

2008 RA108

I find that to be hideous looking.  

[aussief1]

Bro., on Jan 30 2008, 06:17 PM, said:

I know. Ive had a 2 week sabbatical From this website and I have come back and all I mentioned was that I think I can see understeer (and I still can  Because Martin Brundle Taught me )  and im being Bombarded.

Nathan I thought we were Bro's?

Just a difference in opinion mate, it's what makes the world great

Peace Bro

[JayStorm]

Speaking as someone that loved the 07 Renault.

This is an appauling livery.

It looks soooo..unfinished. The white just looks to be MS painted on by some 8 year-old.

Nasty. Hope it isn't the finished product. Prefered 07's so far.

[monza gorilla]

Well I like the new livery. And if I like it then that obviously nullifies all other argument. It looks good in a retro harking back to the 60s way. I liked last years as well. Whereas the Renault, for example, is a real dog's breakfast of badly coordinated and ill judged splodges.

[The Rumble Strip]

Edited by Team Formula One, 13 March 2008 - 10:02 PM.

[Quiet One]

It's better than last year's. And it will certainly look much better from afar...and from afar it will be seen by the spectators and the other team's rearview mirrors.

Edited by Quiet One, 31 January 2008 - 08:25 PM.

[Eric]

No bridge wing is a plus.  And the new livery is among the best.

[Der Kaiser]

The new livery is actually AWFUL.  and what's with the new "cut out" front wings?

[Autumnpuma]

aussief1, on Jan 29 2008, 01:41 PM, said:

That's the thing you do not get a sense of speed from a picture. All you can have all the front end understeering shots of a car you like but if you cannot establish the speed you cannot say the car is understeering. Likewise I will admit with oversteer the driver could well be returning to the track after an off and be turning the opposite way to the corner but alot easier to tell the difference IMO.

This is a funny sort of arguement

Funny indeed.   A bit of nothingness to while away the winter...

[aussief1]

Autumnpuma, on Feb 1 2008, 03:42 PM, said:

Funny indeed.   A bit of nothingness to while away the winter...

So true. It's funny what we find ourselves talking about in the non racing months

Edited by aussief1, 01 February 2008 - 06:01 AM.

[Bro.]

Yes weather or not you can spot understeer in a still photo.

Um anyways Honda have done it Again.

Lewis Hamilton (ENG) McLaren-Mercedes 1:22.263 (84 laps),
Fernando Alonso (ESP) Renault 1:22.889 (61),
Robert Kubica (POL) BMW Sauber 1:22.983 (66),
Giancarlo Fisichella (ITA) Force India 1:23.015 (100),
Nick Heidfeld (GER) BMW Sauber 1:23.270 (53),
Gary Paffett (ENG) McLaren-Mercedes 1:23.349 (47),
Nelsinho Piquet (BRA) Renault 1:23.367 (46),
Sebastian Vettel (GER) Toro Rosso 1:23.387 (90),
Nico Rosberg (GER) Williams 1:23.453 (12),
David Coulthard (SCO) Red Bull 1:23.491 (60),
Mark Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1:23.547 (63),
Sebastien Bourdais (FRA) Toro Rosso 1:23.836 (65),
Kazuki Nakajima (JPN) Williams 1:23.955 (35),
Rubens Barrichello (BRA) Honda 1:24.125 (55),
Alex Wurz (AUT) Honda 1:26.975 (26)


Dead last in what seems to be a Beaten Honda Already!

[The Rumble Strip]

Edited by Team Formula One, 14 March 2008 - 06:15 PM.

[The Rumble Strip]

Edited by Team Formula One, 14 March 2008 - 06:16 PM.