Vinsane

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About Vinsane

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    Test Driver
  1. JV (FA) vs MS (KR)

    The great Cav strikes again... and the great Cav said: "Lo, behold my infinite repository of fact - for all that I shall utter is fact itself and whosoever shall dispute such truths as are clearly evident, upon him I shall strike down with free-flowing paragraphs of camouflaged hodge-podge and opinionated supposition so as to blind him to my underlying childish detest of all that is un-Tifosi" Shane - good on you mate.
  2. Crying Towel

    Thanks Blitz... re: unsporting behaviour -- I was more so alluding to Adelaide, Jerez, Monaco, et al. Schumi's been on his best behaviour this year in front of the media and that's well and good for him and his publicists. But my opinion on his sportsmanship was forged well before his recent spell of politeness.
  3. Crying Towel

    Cav... I re-read and get your point. Yes, what FA said was dumb I agree. Call me crazy, but you pointing this out in a condescending way is not an act the exemplifies the word 'class'. And I intend to stick around and passively read / occasionally post so keep the champagne corked. To take a step back and be fair -- Schumi really does deserve a ton of praise and respect. He had the car and the people behind him, but that is also largely attributable to his personna and his abilities. Technically, he was and still is an excellent driver. Very efficient, very consistent, and he timed his attacking and defending impeccably. His skills in the wet are really unparalleled IMO. I humbly and strongly disagree with the assertion that he was a class act -- a few smiles and pats on the back will never erase the ridiculously unsporting behaviour he has displayed again and again. But at the end of the day history will say that he was a SEVEN time world champion and that speaks for itself. As much as I loved to root against the man, I tip my hat and salute one of the greatest drivers in F1 history
  4. Crying Towel

    Hypocrisy at its finest... Exhibit A: Exhibit B: I rest my case.
  5. Fantastic Race! Right Man Won

    The taste of justice is very sweet indeed Good on Fernando, Fisi, Flav and the Renault boys -- they were well overdue for a dose of good fortune
  6. Poland Says Kubica Is F1's "new King"

    Even though I am admittedly a staunch JV supporter, Kubica has definitely looked impressive. I think the time is right for both JV and Schumi to hang up the boots. The kids coming up are just quicker and well versed with the zillions of driver aids that keep coming and going. I don't resent or dislike RK for stepping into JV's place and think he does indeed have a bright future ahead of him. Hero or legend status?? I think a few wins are in order before we go there.
  7. Jv Quote Of The Week Thread

    wow, I just got told! great comeback keep on beating the dead horse buddy, whatever floats your boat...
  8. Jv Quote Of The Week Thread

    Someone has WAY too much time on their hands. It's moronic junk like this seperate thread whose sole purpose is to bash JV and nothing else that p**ses on the quality of this place. What could this thread possibly contribute that would be even remotely construed as constructive? Not that I need to point any of this out really... you clearly display your minimal level of class and credibility when you continually rip on a driver who is no longer even in the sport. Ironic and immensely hypocritical that you are now complaining and insulting JV incessantly about the fact that he did those same things. The pro JV contingent here could easily rip into Michael's character as well and fan the flames you're attempting to ignite, but instead I for one will let you derive your pathetic doses of joy and continue to demonstrate how little anything you ever say about JV will mean to those who have even a miniscule amount of respect for a man who will be forever known as a Formula One World Champion.
  9. JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

    You tell me how this refutes anything I said. Fisi's deal to jump in the 05 Renault seat was announced in late July 2004... see this article for your reference: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/3928899.stm. Trulli then p**sed off Flav by yapping too much and was distracting the team from the championship battle not to mention his failure to score a single point since the French Grand Prix in early July. Flav clearly thought his chances to win the WCC with JV were better than with Trulli otherwise he would not have pulled the trigger. So indeed, the JV move was a gamble and an experiment, but not an invitation to compete for the 05 seat. -- Alonso and Fisi were locked down, just like I said. And yes he was miles off Alonso points wise, but lapping very close to him in some stints, especially in Brazil. And I paralleled this to Rubinho's disastrous first few races at BAR to show just how easy it is to switch teams and match the incumbent driver's pace. And RB had the luxury of a full offseason of testing with BAR and was not thrust into action after a sabbatical. But hey, lets see what Flav and Pat had to say: "Jacques succeeded with a difficult challenge" - Flav after China "Jacques had settled in by the end of the race and I am sure he can pose a threat to our competitors in Suzuka" - Pat after China JV (9th) outqualified Alonso (11th) in the wet in Japan, but struggled with understeer during the race: "Jacques struggled with significant amounts of understeer, owing to the lack of time we had to set up the car, and that penalised him in the race" - Pat after Japan In Brazil - Jacques' fastest lap (1:12.210) was less than a tenth off Fernando's (1:12.118). "Jacques also did a solid job and I don't think his final position reflects his true pace." - Flav after Brazil "As for Jacques, his speed increased throughout the race and his final stint was extremely competitive. It has been a pleasure to work with him and we wish him well at Sauber" - Pat after Brazil So all in all -- call it a gamble, experiment, whatever... the idea that JV did not work well within the team (as was suggested by other posters many times) is simply not true. And according to people in the know he did a GOOD job in RELATIVE terms contrary to popular belief on this BB. Again, this does NOTHING to refute anything I said... and if you want to allude to a reported contract as ammunition that is probably one of the worst choices you could make. How the heck do you know what was in that contract in terms of various clauses, stipulations, obligations... clearly you don't, and neither do many people save those involved in the actual contracting process (assuming there even was one... this is largely speculation). For all you know, JV may have had to win the CART title to trigger the two years at BAR... unlikely I know, but I'm just making a point. And this doesn't even take into account the insulting nature of the offer even if it were true -- how many WDC's do you think would accept such a deal? CART is clearly an inferior series... if DR truly wanted JV to take a pay cut and stay long term at BAR there were much better ways of going about, and IF it were genuine interest it probably would have happened. BAR was CP and JV's dream -- do you honestly not feel he would have wanted to stick it out to see the fruits of their labour if it were feasible? Your article even mentions JV's relationship with CP, the feuding with DR, etc. The political connotations were vast and complex. And again you have done little to refute my corporate analogy. JV was from the old regime, loyal to the old boss, a personal friend... is that the kind of person the new boss wants in the company, working with his employees, sharing ideas with, reminiscing about how things used to be under CP, creating divergent divisions and lines of loyalty? If you would cease to be so blindly cynical for a minute you could possibly appreciate the logic behind this argument. F1 is certainly not devoid of such political jockeying. JV's critical mistake that year was to let everything around him distract him and take shots at Button before even one race. In hindsight, he should have shut up and driven his a## off all year and the rest of it (a competitive ride in 04) would have had a higher probability of falling into place. Getted killed by Button on the track he planted seeds of doubt as to his abilities into the minds of people who just 2 years before were fighting to pull him away from BAR. And looking back, this was the beginning of the end for JV. But hindsight is 20-20, and this was much easier said than done when his mentor was so unceremoniously thrown into the gutter. I have to run, but will shortly respond to your (Wikipedia's) comments on 2005 at Sauber.
  10. JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

    For the record I am most definitely a new poster who has no previous links to this BB under alternate aliases. So your suspicions with respect to this are false. So feel free to reach into the vault and grab some of those rebuttals. I would be most interested in hearing what your thoughts are on this subject. And my identity should be of little relevance anyways. Frankly Fedup, I don't care if you have 1 post or 10,000 -- and only once were my posts in response to your comments. As Fer highlighted, and I originally mentioned when I made my first couple of posts I am not here to bash MS. He is a worthy champion and a hell of a driver. My simple aim was and still is to defend JV against ridiculously skewed versions of the truth, assertions made based on speculation rather than fact, and in several cases outright fallacies. I am not in the conversion business - if you or anyone else doesn't care for JV then so be it. In reality there is very little I could ever do to convert such folks. But if you want to go spouting off absolute hogwash to support your anti-JV views then you should be prepared for a rebuttal. And in that respect I endeavour to remain free of becoming a blind, venomous zealot and try to stick to historical facts and opinions (biased as they may be) that are founded on such facts. And so I invite and encourage you or anyone else who doesn't agree with what I say to highlight if and where you take issue with my comments and we can discuss and debate in a civil manner. I consider my exchange with Buczer to be a heated, but fair example of the type of discussion I'm looking to engage in. If you want to sharpen your claws and spew rubbish related to my identity, my personality, etc. you can also go right ahead and add to your post count if that makes you happy. It just waters down the conversation and hurts your own credibility at the end of the day, so please be my guest
  11. Villeneuve Slams Schumacher Over 'Lies'

    Thanks Autumn -- Sauber were indeed incredibly mechanical with their set-ups and so restrictive with JV. And the evidence of this for all the doubters lies in the massive scale of the 'improvement'. As soon as Peter gave JV the green light to try things 'his way' and gave him the freedom to work with Giampaolo to set the car to his liking, he went from miles off Massa to beating him regularly in the 2nd half in the span of a couple of races. Then Felipe started to bust out the "if I had x, y, and z had happened I could have beat Jacques" spiel. The turnaround was quite dramatic. Heck, even MT gave JV props for getting up to speed in the 2nd half, although I tend to think it was more of an empty justification for keeping him onboard (since he couldn't break the contract right away) rather than heartfelt praise.
  12. Villeneuve Slams Schumacher Over 'Lies'

    You don't care much for JV?? You don't say... one positive note is all that comes to mind. No mention of Albert Park 96, Estoril 96, Indy 500 win, etc... JV had much more than one success story in his career. In response to your other points: 2. I agree that the BAR debacle was the most negative thing to ever happen to JV and effectively ruined his career. But hey, hindsight is always 20-20. It really didn't seem to be such a ludicrous venture at the time. 3. I also agree that JV shouldn't have lashed out at Button so publicly -- he later reaped what he sowed. 03 was just a mess for Jacques. It was really the beginning of this sad ending being witnessed. 4. You actually believe this?? I'll give DR one thing, he's a heck of a spin-doctor. See my corporate push-out theory in the other thread... this was just a part of DR's ruse to be politically correct in kicking JV's arse out of BAR ASAP. 5. Flav and Pat would say otherwise. And if I may so boldly submit: jumping into a new team with 3 races left and after a year off will tend to tarnish your skills to some extent. Even still he was but a tenth off Alonso's pace by the last race of the season. No rabbits pulled out of hats, but he did as well as could be expected under the circumstances. 6. First half of 05, agree... second half disagree. Again, new team, new style/culture, minimal testing, radically different electronics (a la Ferrari)... an adjustment phase is only natural. Even Schumi was nothing special by his standards in his first season at Maranello. 7. Disagree... another relationship doomed from the start. And given this he still equalled or bettered the great German hope in the majority of races. Even if you take this as subjective, you cannot honestly assert that Nick soundly outperformed Jacques overall. And with regards to some of the comments about JV taking too much $$ at BAR and thus stunting their ability to test and succeed... see #4 above. DR's stories were damn good indeed. Money was never an issue at BAR. Both BAT and Honda have some of the deepest pockets in the biz. Their annual budget is in the $200 mil range. JV's $20 mil price-tag was well below Schumi's purported $50 mil. Kimi will probably double the $20 mil with his next deal. And even sticking within the BAR context, look how they broke out the check-book to steal Butts from Frank... for these big teams 'money ain't a thing'.
  13. JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

    OK... I'm back again... after reading this I just couldn't help responding: Michael has done a lot for Ferrari no doubt. But to assert that HE is the sole CAUSE of their success is ludicrous. Just look back at last year to see what happens when any team doesn't provide a top driver with a race winning machine. Alonso doubled up the grand-master himself. He did a great job in a fantasticly built Renault and took the title. Bottom line: a great driver does NOT a world champion make. And as for JV's lack of 'teamwork' why don't you talk to Giampaolo D'allara and Jock Clear to see what they think, or maybe Frank, Peter, Flav, Geoff, Pat... these men all seemed to speak nothing but praise for Jacques' ability to give invaluable technical feedback and his natural 'feel' for set-ups and tweaking. Very good... you have learned much from Schumi indeed. I do apologize for the emotional outburst on my part, went a little too far there perhaps. No hard feelings I hope Simply put: yes and yes. Richards got booted by BAT for being a dunce and Herr Ned Flanders... in time you will see how brilliant he really is. Unless there are major changes with the BMW operation they are destined for mediocrity IMHO much like their association with Williams. Alonso and Fisi were locked down for the next year, simple as that. JV was to Trulli what Kubica is to JV right now. And it was also great publicity for Renault at the time as well. Frank wanted desperately to keep him and this is no secret at all. At the end of the day the CP link was just too strong and of course to some degree money talks and BS walks -- JV had 20+ million reasons to leave Williams waiting for him at BAR. What would YOU do? I've already addressed this 'firing' argument. Frank wanted him to stay, so get your facts straight there. I never said anything about JV having his best season since 03, but ok I'll agree with you that he is. Why no one wants him is a complex combination of many factors... for instance this new fetish with taking young, unproven, cheap drivers and gambling on finding the 'next one'. And naturally JV, at 35 years old and no wins in 10 years is just not that attractive a package any more. He's got maybe 2 years left so the potential risk/reward ratio leans heavily towards taking a chance on a young guy who may turn into a star that wins races for many years to come. JV butted heads with Patrick Head. So did Monty, so did many others. PH is not a guy who likes his drivers telling him what they want. JV is a driver who always is extremely vocal about what he wants. Besides, a little friction may not be such a bad thing -- keeps everyone on their toes. And oh yeah, a WDC and WCC resulted from JV/Williams relationship, so don't know what you're getting at there. Let me paint a little picture for you with regards to BAR... you just don't seem to get this one. Let's say you're working at a big company and have a great relationship with the CEO who sees you as something of a protege and driving force behind the company. Suddenly this CEO gets canned and a new one arrives on the scene. This new guy naturally wants to distance himself as much as possible with the 'old regime' and build a new success story his way under his rules and with his vision. Thus he cleans ship and gets rid of many of the incumbent old boys and puts together his own team of people to show the board of directors that he's making meaningful changes and will not accept the status quo -- otherwise what was the point of hiring the new CEO in the first place? ... This story happens ALL THE TIME in the business world, and hey, F1 is definitely business-oriented nowadays, so why is it so hard for you to understand that DAVE RICHARDS WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH JACQUES VILLENEUVE FROM DAY ONE. And about blaming Jacques and not DR, let me take you back to the little corporate analogy. If the new CEO decides to keep you on board and sack the protege do you honestly think you would come out and criticize his decision and blame him for canning a valuable asset? If you answer yes to this question, I hope you are not considering a career in the business world. If you were a good little corporate piggy you would probably come out and support the CEO for removing a cancerous element of the firm and showing such impeccable gusto and vision (i.e. you would kiss his corporate arse). I'll let you think about which outcome is more likely. Broken record here... same old arguments. Please tell me where you bought your crystal ball... I've always wanted one of my own. PURE speculation with nothing to back you up here. Uh huh... you incessantly trash the guy, his abilities, his validity as a world champion, but you wish him all the best. Either you have a dual personality or your kind heartedness is just not all that genuine.
  14. JV Talking Too Much And Trying To Show Off

    I cannot believe what passes for intelligence these days... and is praised for being "well said" no less. Yes, clearly Ferrari's incredible run and BAR's disastrous failure can be attributed entirely to Schumi and JV respectively. I give you an A+ for such a stunning thesis that has volumes of foolproof evidence backing it up. JV should have designed, built, raced, modified, funded, managed, and every other imaginable adjective that could be used within the context of an F1 team and thus the finger for the BAR debacle should be pointed his way... Friendly advice: take your hands off Schumi's cojones and TRY for the love of God to come up with something a little better than that. As for the 'firings' you mention I will simply respond with two sets of initials: DR and MT and let you think about it. And here's another hint for you while I'm in my giving mood... neither of these gentlemen were particularly happy to have JV. They both 'inherited' him and like 99% of GMs in pro sports wanted to wipe the slate and build their own team. The Renault 'stint' which you so aptly termed a 'career' -- see Rubens this year at BAR for the first 4 or 5 races as an example of how easy it is to switch cars and perform at your peak. He was embarassingly off Jens' pace and has now seemed to find his way. And this is WITH the benefit off a full off-season of testing and WITHOUT the inconvenience of being on sabbatical and being thrust into action out of race shape. Flav and Pat gave JV the thumbs up for both his technical input and his ability to get up to speed RELATIVELY quickly, but hey what do those schmucks know? Clearly your argument is much more convincing. As for winning with the 'best' car on the grid... perhaps JV should apologize for not winning in a Minardi. You name me ONE driver not named Gilles who has taken a car that by all accounts was incapable of winning races and won races consistently (i.e. more than once or twice) with it. You put Schumi in JV's boots at BAR and they would still never have won a championship. F1 is MUCH more team-oriented than 99% of sporting ventures such that an elite driver is pretty well out of luck when it comes to winning with a sub-par car. It takes the combination of a top notch pilot and car to win races and championships. Schumi has done this for years. JV did it when he had the car in 96 and 97. If you want to argue that Schumi would have fared markedly better than JV in the same cars between 98-06 then I will let you make that claim and have your fellow Schumi-ists laud praise on your genius. I don't buy it. Points are important no doubt... you are talking about a WDC who scored more points than anyone. There are a number of mitigating factors that should curb one's use of points as an evaluator of results. I think personally points are much more commensurate to performance for top of the grid teams than bottom feeders who are subject to mechanical gremlins and who bank on teams in front of them failing to score points. In this environment one lucky race can score you a fluke 3rd-6th and occasionally earned 7th-8th place. Thus if your teammate has a fortunate race (i.e. NH last race) he scores 6 points whereas those 6 points will be almost impossible to come by in a normal race setting when the top teams finish. I've said it many times before... I have followed JV's career for the past 12-14 years and have watched him and analyzed his performances enough to make the assertion that he was trounced only once in his entire career and that was by Button. Again, the DR factor comes into play, but he was trounced. Massa also owned him in the first half of 05, but once JV got comfortable with the car he was on par and marginally better the rest of the year. Same thing with Nick, he has been on par or marginally better. And quite honestly, JV now is not what he was in his prime and neither is Schumi - age and technical advances will make a driver's skills obsolete to some extent. Honestly, I hate making these long posts and wish I did not have to... it just irks the Sh#te out of me reading such mindless crap that bashes a driver who you clearly have no appreciation for and whose long-standing 'battle' with your golden boy has skewed your vision beyond repair. Schumi is an elite driver, and JV showed he was as well when given the opportunity. Get over it and get on with what's left of the season. Let JV rant away - if it makes him happy it shouldn't bother anyone on this site. They are just words that will do very little to reverse history. He is out of F1 and that should be satisfaction enough for you classless schmucks.
  15. Villeneuve Slams Schumacher Over 'Lies'

    The fact that this forum is littered with so much emotional hogwash reinforces why posting here is a waste of time. Taking a stance and supporting it with well-thought out arguments and defenses is one thing... coming back with cheap shots, pumping up your side's rubbish without an ounce of reflection as to whether it makes any sense at all, and asserting outright lies as truth -- these are things that pollute any forum. Clearly I am a JV supporter (for many reasons I will not get into) and as such there is some degree of inherent bias in my comments but I do endeavour to be as neutral as possible and to understand the criticisms of JV when they are based on fact. By most standards JV mucked this one up. Of course he is bitter and angry and with good reason. Over the past 10 years he has watched his career and that of his hated rival go in divergent directions with very little he could do about it in the past 5 years. He simply has not had the equipment to fight Schumi since 97 and since re-upping with BAR and being sacked in '03 his reputation as an ex-WDC has been sullied to an unrecoverable degree. Businesses (like F1) are results oriented. If you put yourself in the shoes of guys like Flav, Ron, Frank, Jean it is not hard to understand why they are heistant to take on a guy who is 35 and has not had a truly outstanding year in a decade. JV has performed as well as anyone could ever have with the cars he had, regularly trouncing or marginally bettering almost all his teammates (except Button in 03... see my previous post). But team owners want young guys with speed nowadays, always looking for the Alonso or Kimi in the rough who can write cheques for the future. JV at 35 has possibly a year or two ahead at best. At the end of the day it is a risk/return question and JV's profile simply is not attractive anymore. If Schumi endured 10 years of equally poor equipment he would be in the same situation. No one on God's green earth could have won races in those cars, period. JV is clearly flustered because he knows that in similar cars he can challenge Schumi as he has proven beyond doubt. At the end of the day he took a huge gamble going to a new team where the budget, ambitions, and promises completely overshadowed any tangible results. And his continued faith in 01 through 03 simply destroyed his shot at a top ride. If he had cut his losses and given in to Flav's overtures things would likely have been much different. But life is a series of choices and consequences. JV made his choice and he is living the consequences right now. The biggest flaw with JV was his association with Pollock. CP was a zealous fool who dragged JV's talents in the mud at BAR and ruined his chance to bang wheels with Schumi for a decade in similar cars. JV was either too loyal or too ambitious for his own good. And with the combination of a zealous manager and driver... well the rest is what we now call 'history'. Most agents/managers are slime in my books anyways, but a COMPETENT manager would have urged JV to jump at established winner like McLaren and Renault when the opportunities were there. CP was a leach who found an elite, marketable driver in JV and tried to parlay this to fulfill his own dreams. Thus the mess of a career that has seemingly come to an end. I have watched JV since I was 10 years old and he was in Formula Atlantic and I KNOW how good he really is. Bernie knows how good he really is, Frank knows how good he really is, as does Flav and many others whose respect/admiration should mean a lot. But naturally, if you put yourself in his shoes, for JV it hurts when fans and critics question his legacy and he can't really point to anything recent enough to defend it vigorously and it is something beyond his control at this point. JV's reaction through the press highlights another difference between MS and JV. Namely, JV did not have and probably did not want strong publicists and press agents, whereas Schumi had some of the best. The job of these people is to maintain the public image of their clients and with Schumi they have done a fairly good job. JV on the other hand has come across as a rebellious big-mouth. Look - a lot of it is cultural, sociological, etc as well -- I have a lot of friends in Quebec who are equally passionate and blunt in their views. What they call passion, others call biggoted and egomaniacal. And there were other drivers in F1 history who just as 'bad' as JV in this respect as well (Montoya, Alesi, Irvine, etc.). I loved F1 in the mid to late 90's because of the racing and the 'drama' -- the diverse array of characters and personalities like Schumi, JV, Mika, David, Alesi, Berger, Hill, Zanardi, Montoya, etc -- it was just a really ecclectic mix of varying personalities and styles and it made for some exciting stuff. With the departure of Monty and now JV the sport has certainly lost a massive chunk of this 'je-ne-sais-quoi' in my eyes. Before I leave (I simply don't have enough time for these ridiculously long posts trying to bring some sense into this muck), I will point out a sample of the ridiculousness to which I am referring: Exhibit A -- Even the harshest of JV's public critics this year backed his performance on the track as being either on-par or marginally better than NH. I challenge you to prove your ridiculous assertion with some facts. And before you point to the 13-7 points differential let me assure you this was analyzed by the critics and regardless they gave JV the thumbs up.Exhibit B -- In 1998 they were. JV was the 97 champ. It was one year removed. It seemed like a great idea with a lot of promise on the surface. In hindsight it is a lot harder to win in F1 than just throwing money at a project (see also Toyota and Honda). Exhibit C -- Oh yes, the dignified remarks about JV's music career how could anyone forget those? JV has lashed MS twice this year. Once because of Monaco where MS tried to play dumb and JV's assertion that it was intentional has generally been vindicated -- he just screamed foul louder than anyone else and of course there is all the history and makes it even more visible. Second was this tirade to which MS' publicists have done the right thing and muzzled him up making JV look really bad. But Mikey has taken his fair share of jabs at JV as well and his 'dignity' is highly questionnable in general given solid evidence (Adelaide, Jerez, Monaco). Schumi is a winner and a hell of a driver -- dignified is one adjective I would not ever used to describe him though.Exhibit D -- Yes his name evokes passion and helped make him so loved right away. But JV has proven his mettle against the best... he is an F1 world champion, Montoya is not. I will end with this... This is very true, but will probably never happen. That's just the way JV is. Gilles was the same way -- he would never ever find peace with Pironi. JV knows with all his heart and soul that he wasted his talent and threw away the potential to be uttered in the same breath as the Senna, Prost, Schumi, and yes even Gilles by generations to come... the sting of such a realization is just too much to bear for a guy like Jacques. To find peace would be to admit failure and Jacques is just too proud and too good to accept this. A wasted talent for sure, a true world champion no doubt, and a sad end to what could have and should have been a glorious career save for one or two critically erroneous decisions.