Clicky

Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Autumnpuma

Deadly London

Recommended Posts

I just can't understand the need to own a gun...how frequent is it in the US that someone enters in your house to steal/harm your family/kill you??Cause it's something I would never conceive here,and it's the main concern of most of the posters from US.

You can bet it doesn't happen as often as it does in Spain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was exaggerating a bit on our different sides of the issue.

Yeah I know, and I was probably exaggerating a little in my reply, but still, I think you're making a meal of this issue. To anyone outside of America, or anyone who cares to investigate the stats themselves, it really is obvious that America is one of the most violent countries in the developed world.

I don't see how the New Zealand stats are more reliable than the ones I found. Mine were directly from the governments of the two nations in question. How can you get a more primary source than that. I would much rather see the raw data than have it analyzed by someone else.

:lol: Come on, James. I've explained already that our governments mean completely different things when they talk about "violent" crime, therefore your direct stats are completely useless. In America, statutory rape for example is not classed as a violent crime, whereas in Britain it is. So can you see why our official figures for "violent" crime might be higher than yours?

The whole point of the New Zealand government's report was to account for these differences in definitions. And when they re-calculate the level of violent crime in America according to other international definitions they find a massively higher rate of violence. The calculations done used the exact same data as you quoted, so there is no issue there.

I don't watch any sort of news. All the news that I do get is through various internet sources, some from outside the U.S. while others are from inside. And I agree with you, our media is quite bad.

OK good! Well, I really think that's one of the biggest problems in America. How can you make sensible choices as a nation when you don't get the facts. You clearly are better informed than average, but it's the average moron who determines who gets elected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can bet it doesn't happen as often as it does in Spain.

Bloody immigrants! To add insult to injury, I bet they all look like Hamilton too. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bloody immigrants! To add insult to injury, I bet they all look like Hamilton too. :lol:

I didn't say immigrants are the most criminal in Spain. I said they suffer violence as much as anybody else, maybe more than many Spanish people which can pay private security at home. When you talk about crime and violence normally medium to low class people suffer it the most. I was just talking about statistics. I didn't mean to offend immigrants, most of them come to Spain to work where Spanish people does not like to work and I don't know what violent crime means for you but for me it is a crime where the victim is threatened or gets injured, breaking into a house while the owners are inside, etc...

BTW, thank god nobody here looks like Hamilton. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol: Come on, James. I've explained already that our governments mean completely different things when they talk about "violent" crime, therefore your direct stats are completely useless. In America, statutory rape for example is not classed as a violent crime, whereas in Britain it is. So can you see why our official figures for "violent" crime might be higher than yours?

The whole point of the New Zealand government's report was to account for these differences in definitions. And when they re-calculate the level of violent crime in America according to other international definitions they find a massively higher rate of violence. The calculations done used the exact same data as you quoted, so there is no issue there.

What I meant was that I would like to see the rates of the all the crimes, not just the homicide rate.

I may have gone a bit overboard with my argument, but I like to argue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can't get another job. I am talking about a limit situation. Just like you and the guns. Not every person that walks into your house wants to kill, maim and rape, right?

What I am talking about is where are the limits, and who sets them. I can perfectly see a limit situation where I would like to have a gun and shoot them down. Geez, I hate enough to kill a bus driver who stops in the middle of the street blocking all traffic in rush hour! The problem is: guns kill, you might have guessed it. And killed is irrevocable. You might have guessed that, too. Once you get a gun, you have power of life and death over other people. Yes, yes, you could kill with a pork chop, with enough time, cold blood and patience. But with a gun is just squeeze, bam, done. Now, we live in a society. Who decides who has to kill or not? You? Let's say someone breaks into your house and you kill him. You decided that you and your family was at enough risk to shoot a man. Were they? How many criminals that "deserve to die" are killed by people with guns in their house? How many crimes are commited by those same people? Bigger picture is usually more complicated than individual situations.

Damn english, I know what I want to say, but it comes out all confusing.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If you can blame guns for killing people, I can blame spoons for making my relatives fat.

And you are violating one of George Orwell's rules of effective writing: If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

You are using outrageous situations to try to make a point, while the situations I am envisioning happen in every day life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't say immigrants are the most criminal in Spain. I said they suffer violence as much as anybody else, maybe more than many Spanish people which can pay private security at home. When you talk about crime and violence normally medium to low class people suffer it the most. I was just talking about statistics. I didn't mean to offend immigrants, most of them come to Spain to work where Spanish people does not like to work and I don't know what violent crime means for you but for me it is a crime where the victim is threatened or gets injured, breaking into a house while the owners are inside, etc...

BTW, thank god nobody here looks like Hamilton. :)

You did, but perhaps you didn't mean to. Anyway, I couldn't care less if you "offend immigrants". Some probably deserve it and the rest I'm sure can cope.

What I meant was that I would like to see the rates of the all the crimes, not just the homicide rate.

I may have gone a bit overboard with my argument, but I like to argue.

But the stats I showed you were for all types of violent crime, not just murder. I think it's pretty obvious what the stats say. I like to argue too, especially when there is a point to it in terms of overcoming the prejudices that are fed to Americans by your own media. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And you are You're violating one of George Orwell's rules of effective writing: If it is it's possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

:P Just playing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the violent crimes in spain are commited by (paid) Alonso fans ;)

Yeah, really violent ones...we hunt all the "cavallinos" over the world... :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can bet it doesn't happen as often as it does in Spain.

I don't think so. Well,I'm from the Basque Country,probably the least appropriate place to talk about violence :rolleyes: ...but guns??I don't feel here's a need to have a gun inside every house so the so called "head of the family" can defend his territory.Do you feel this need?

And Hamilton's cute! End of! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think so. Well,I'm from the Basque Country,probably the least appropriate place to talk about violence :rolleyes: ...but guns??I don't feel here's a need to have a gun inside every house so the so called "head of the family" can defend his territory.Do you feel this need?

And Hamilton's cute! End of! :lol:

Two t-shirts for that! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Two t-shirts for that! :)

Mwahahahahaa!I knew it would work!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If you can blame guns for killing people, I can blame spoons for making my relatives fat.

Besides being a non-sequitur, that phrase is rather stupid, if I might say so. It is precisely the people's aptitude to decide what to do with guns what we are discussing. So tell me, do you agree that Irak and Iran should have atomic bombs right? Hey, bombs don't kill people. People kill people. Oh, I know! Argentina had one of the most important developemnts of missile technologies in Latin America. They were ready to launch sattelites and Argentina had multi million contracts with many countries. USA forced us to close such project. Argentina lost the contracts, the scientists left the country, etc. I bet you would have opposed to that measure. Missiles don't kill people. People kill people. Oh, I can go for hours...somebody stop me! :P

And you are violating one of George Orwell's rules of effective writing: If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

Ok, I'll keep that in mind. No idea what do you meant regarding my own arguments but it is a good advice after all. Maybe you have cutted way too many words out of that reply. :P

You are using outrageous situations to try to make a point, while the situations I am envisioning happen in every day life.

So, do you think that people has a sacred right to keep weapons at home based on the everyday situation of hordes of armed, drugged people coming to rape and kill your family, while my situations of people killing their wives, childrens, neighbors, colleagues at University etc. with the same weapons they bought to protect their homes is outrageous? That's interesting.

Bah, forget it. Go get your own private arsenal. Lock your doors. Don't go out. Shoot on sight any suspicious person. Fear other countries. Guess that is the American dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:P Just playing.

My English teacher from high school warned against using contractions, so sometimes I do not write with them. As for Orwell, there might be another Orwell that is famous, no disrespect to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Besides being a non-sequitur, that phrase is rather stupid, if I might say so. It is precisely the people's aptitude to decide what to do with guns what we are discussing. So tell me, do you agree that Irak and Iran should have atomic bombs right? Hey, bombs don't kill people. People kill people. Oh, I know! Argentina had one of the most important developemnts of missile technologies in Latin America. They were ready to launch sattelites and Argentina had multi million contracts with many countries. USA forced us to close such project. Argentina lost the contracts, the scientists left the country, etc. I bet you would have opposed to that measure. Missiles don't kill people. People kill people. Oh, I can go for hours...somebody stop me! :P

No, they shouldn't have them. Ahmadenijad (spelling?) has stated that Israel should be wiped off the map. He gets nukes, they go to Israel on a one way trip, thus starting a war that will cost tens of millions of lives. He would use nukes to start a war, meanwhile, we used ours twice to end one war.

Ok, I'll keep that in mind. No idea what do you meant regarding my own arguments but it is a good advice after all. Maybe you have cutted way too many words out of that reply. :P

Doesn't need to be complicated.

So, do you think that people has a sacred right to keep weapons at home based on the everyday situation of hordes of armed, drugged people coming to rape and kill your family, while my situations of people killing their wives, childrens, neighbors, colleagues at University etc. with the same weapons they bought to protect their homes is outrageous? That's interesting.

One of the reasons citizens of the United States are allowed to have guns is that when our government has failed the obligation to the people, that it is the people's right to abolish said government.

From the Declaration of Independence: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

And Yes, people should be able to keep weapons. If someone at Virginia Tech would have had a gun, they could have stopped that maniac that caused the massacre. And that's another thing. You automatically assume that if someone has a gun, that they will use it for evil. You lay no faith at all that the person owning the gun could be a sane individual that knows how it works and respects what it can do.

Bah, forget it. Go get your own private arsenal. Lock your doors. Don't go out. Shoot on sight any suspicious person. Fear other countries. Guess that is the American dream.

You really need to get a clue. Having a few rounds doesn't mean I have an 'arsenal'. In America, you do lock your doors, unless you're stupid. I do go out. And shooting on sight any suspicious person? That's only something a crazy person might do.

Oh wait. Anybody that owns a gun is crazy to you, right?

And you really should read up on what the American Dream is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And you really should read up on what the American Dream is.

No, I'm just venting my frustration. I will reply in full some other time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You did, but perhaps you didn't mean to. Anyway, I couldn't care less if you "offend immigrants". Some probably deserve it and the rest I'm sure can cope.

I was talking about violent crimes, there are many other crimes commited by tourists. :rolleyes:

We have never even killed a fly in our life. :unsure:

I don't think so. Well,I'm from the Basque Country,probably the least appropriate place to talk about violence :rolleyes: ...but guns??I don't feel here's a need to have a gun inside every house so the so called "head of the family" can defend his territory.Do you feel this need?

And Hamilton's cute! End of! :lol:

We don't need guns at home but when I travel abroad I see how people live in houses with no grilles. They don't live behind bars like we do in Spain. No fences, no gates... Maybe we are paranoid here in Madrid but violence is a bit high, even driving a car in the traffic jams sometimes I thank God for not letting people own guns in Madrid. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you explain 'Spanish Fly' then, eh ?? :eusa_think::lol:

It is probably a myth. When I was a teenager I thought there were some kind of drops you could put in a girl's drink and... I never saw that happened. I didn't know you knew a word about "la mosca" = "the fly" and it is funny you name it that way. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is probably a myth. When I was a teenager I thought there were some kind of drops you could put in a girl's drink and... I never saw that happened. I didn't know you knew a word about "la mosca" = "the fly" and it is funny you name it that way. :lol:

Ohhh it's legendary over here! Although I have no idea why it is legendary, as I have never seen or heard of it being used, let alone knowing if it's effective or not, but the teenage adolescent mind will believe anything I guess! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of the reasons citizens of the United States are allowed to have guns is that when our government has failed the obligation to the people, that it is the people's right to abolish said government.

From the Declaration of Independence: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Yes and that could never go bad could it. Maybe you should research the Russian revolution.

And Yes, people should be able to keep weapons. If someone at Virginia Tech would have had a gun, they could have stopped that maniac that caused the massacre.

So your saying that gun voilence is the answer to stopping gun violence. You have been brainwashed if you believe that tripe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If you can blame guns for killing people, I can blame spoons for making my relatives fat.

And you are violating one of George Orwell's rules of effective writing: If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

You are using outrageous situations to try to make a point, while the situations I am envisioning happen in every day life.

:lmavfa:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And Yes, people should be able to keep weapons. If someone at Virginia Tech would have had a gun, they could have stopped that maniac that caused the massacre. And that's another thing. You automatically assume that if someone has a gun, that they will use it for evil. You lay no faith at all that the person owning the gun could be a sane individual that knows how it works and respects what it can do.

And you really should read up on what the American Dream is.

There are not many things which I tend to agree with you, but I agree one must have guns in extremely lawless places, example in some parts of India where Rioting against certain communities are very high, I even advice the priests of Mosque, Church and Temples to have one each, then Brazil, Iraq, South Africa, Pakistan and Afghanistan etc etc. Does America needs guns? No. You only need guns when you cannot depend on your country's defence, or justice institutions. America has effecient police, its only because criminals have guns, civilians feel like having.

The only reason in my opinion why such manicas were able to carry out such attacks on innocent people is simply because better access to guns. In India, they would have had to resorted to Bow and arrows since guns are not freely available, and it is easy to be branded as a terrorist if you are caught with a gun with no lisence, or even if someone stands as a witness against a person claiming he/she had a gun without lisence ten years back, they will be put behind bars for many years. Inspite of all that India has the highest murder rate, something about which I am ashamed of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes and that could never go bad could it. Maybe you should research the Russian revolution.

I never said it was perfect.

So your saying that gun voilence is the answer to stopping gun violence. You have been brainwashed if you believe that tripe.

Would you rather one life lost or 2 dozen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...