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Autumnpuma

Deadly London

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inhabitants......... foreigners??? cave dwellars??? :P

Cave dwelllers? That's another name for Southern Softies, over here :whistling::lol:

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Cave dwelllers? That's another name for Southern Softies, over here :whistling::lol:

Now just take your whippet, black poooooding and pint of J.Smiths elsewhere when you say that! :)

Signed

A Southern Softy (actually originally from the West Country but it kinda counts) :D

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[quote name='Yoda McFly' post='253720' date='May 29 2008, 03:10 AM']Actually, that describes much of the planet ...

:huh: [/quote]
Precisely.

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inhabitants......... foreigners??? cave dwellars??? :P

Nope. What spoils most countries is the people who live there.

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Now just take your whippet, black poooooding and pint of J.Smiths elsewhere when you say that! :)

Signed

A Southern Softy (actually originally from the West Country but it kinda counts) :D

And me pan of scouse, like. It was greatssssssss.

It was a good advert, though :lol:

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Yikes! It appears murder can still happen in a gunless society. Fascinating

The murder per capita rate in the US is one of the worst in the world, it outnumbers that figure in the UK by about 5:1

Yes, we do have a problem in the UK with violence (part and parcel of chav culture unfortunately), and yes the government of the UK does need to stop it, but for my money the US is still the violent capital of the world.

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The murder per capita rate in the US is one of the worst in the world, it outnumbers that figure in the UK by about 5:1

Yes, we do have a problem in the UK with violence (part and parcel of chav culture unfortunately), and yes the government of the UK does need to stop it, but for my money the US is still the violent capital of the world.

The whole of the UK is very small compared to the US. The populations are different. Of course the ratios will be different.

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:lol: This forum doesn't like statistics.

(I'm too tired to offer any insightful insights into anything right now.)

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The whole of the UK is very small compared to the US. The populations are different. Of course the ratios will be different.

Clearly you are ignorant as to the true meaning of per capita, so I will explain it for you because I am nice like that

It basically expresses a statistic as percentage of population, meaning the US has approximately 5x more murders per percentage of its population than the UK, and percentages can be applied to any nation, large or small. Like it or lump it, with the possible exception of South Africa, America is the most violent country in the world.

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Clearly you are ignorant as to the true meaning of per capita, so I will explain it for you because I am nice like that

It basically expresses a statistic as percentage of population, meaning the US has approximately 5x more murders per percentage of its population than the UK, and percentages can be applied to any nation, large or small. Like it or lump it, with the possible exception of South Africa, America is the most violent country in the world.

Are those statistics based on only urban crime or amongst the whole of the population?

I can assure you that there are very peaceful parts of America, but you would have to drop the weight of that huge "All the USA is violent" brush to see it.

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Are those statistics based on only urban crime or amongst the whole of the population?

I can assure you that there are very peaceful parts of America, but you would have to drop the weight of that huge \"All the USA is violent\" brush to see it.

There are peaceful parts of the UK as well so that is an utterly pointless argument, you cant just say because there are some parts of the US that are peaceful stats mean nothing because that is just a rediculously inept argument. And those stats are based on murder rate per capita. All murders, not just urban. I never tried to claim that the whole of the US is violent, but in general terms per percentage of population, it is, with the exception of South Africa, the country with one of the worlds worst murder rates. Call it Urban, Rural, or whatever you want, statistics like that do not lie.

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just thought i'd chime in with a little bit of statistical evidence to help out my fellow american.

total violent crime rate of usa for 2005 provided by the fbi website says that the per capita offenses are 469.2 per 100,000 people.

the total violent crime rate of the uk in 2005 provided by homeoffice.gov.uk says that the per capita offenses are 23 per 1,000 people. this, after some simple multiplication (or slightly less simple division), comes out to be 2300 per 100,000 people.

now i'm not exactly sure what that means but it doesn't look to pretty.

us stats from http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html

uk stats from http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb1206chap78.pdf

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That was the stat for violent crime, not murder. The rate for Murder was 5.6 per 100,000

The only stats I could find for the UK for murders was the following:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/hosb0206.pdf

Which says there where 839 deaths in the period of 2004/05 attributable to homicide, of which 9.4% where gun related. Out of 57 million people, that equates to a figure of approximately 0.0015% or 1.46 per 100,000 which I am sure you will see is significantly lower. Although I don't have the figures to hand, I am confident enough to say that I would stake my life on the fact that there are more gun related murders in the US per % capita than in the UK.

In 2005/6 there where 2,420,000 cases of violent crime in the UK, I am not sure what the US figure is, but without doing research into what both governments class as violent crime, it is a bit harder to compare stats.

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i know that was the stat for violent crime, and not specifically murder. thats why i said

total violent crime rate of usa for 2005 provided by the fbi website says that the per capita offenses are 469.2 per 100,000 people.

you said earlier that

for my money the US is still the violent capital of the world.

i was showing a statistic that shows that the uk has in fact more "violent crime" of which homicide is only part.

FBI's definition: Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. From what I've seen of the UK's definition from the .pdf in your link, they also include assault which results in no injury. From their pie charts, this accounts for 24% of the total. so 76% of your number of 2,420,000 equals 1,839,200. So that is the UK's violent crime without "no injury assaults". From the same link as before the FBI's number for violent crime in the US is 1,390,695.

Obviously the numbers are not perfect as it is hard to compare the two countries with the differences in defining whats what. But I think they do show that the US is not any more violent than the UK, as most of those who live there like to say, based solely on homicide rates.

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basically....

Americans need to stop shooting each other, and to stop thinking guns are an acceptable accessory, they are not! Knives are far more retro, and they are the perfect accessory, they go with anything!

No no, Americans need to stop using guns, we need to stop using knives. Simple as! We also need to stop penalising driver's and smoker's, and concentrate on the real criminals!

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basically....

Americans need to stop shooting each other, and to stop thinking guns are an acceptable accessory, they are not! Knives are far more retro, and they are the perfect accessory, they go with anything!

No no, Americans need to stop using guns, we need to stop using knives. Simple as! We also need to stop penalising driver's and smoker's, and concentrate on the real criminals!

Like it or not, not everyone that owns a gun is a whacko.

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I didn't say that, I am saying guns are unnecessary

To defend myself in the future they might be, so I'll have mine.

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International Comparison of Violent Crime Rates (per capita).

It is quite tricky to compare violent crime rates as recorded in different countries because different crimes will be counted as "violent" in each country. The New Zealand government has published a comprehensive report that re-calculates several counties' violent crime figures so that they can be compared in a meaningful way.

In the Summary, their figures suggest that the US has approximately 4 times as much violent crime per person as in the UK. (You can see this by looking at their US-New Zealand and UK-New Zealand comparisons together. The UK has similar rates to NZ, whereas the US has much higher rates.) James's figures for this were very interesting but they're not very meaningful because our countries use totally different definitions of "violent". For example, according to the US (but not the UK) definition, statutory rape (where no force is used) is not a violent crime. You can see the definitions used in each country in their appendix.

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Hate to say I told you so, but well... I told you so

Like it or not, not everyone that owns a gun is a whacko.

Rubbish. If guns where legal in the UK I would buy one, because I enjoy shooting. Not at people, but at inanimate targets. I am no whacko I would never shoot an animal or human. Same goes for the US, and everywhere else, not everyone who buys a gun does so because they want to kill someone with it.

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Errr, unless my eyesight has finally succumbed to the ale, it seems that you called Chris's post rubbish and then went on to agree with it...............

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Errr, unless my eyesight has finally succumbed to the ale, it seems that you called Chris's post rubbish and then went on to agree with it...............

I believe that is called talking out of both sides of your mouth.

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:lol: This argument goes in circles!

Just as any other argument placed in this forum...!

Its a TF1 forum trademark.

:lol:

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Oh dear. You americans are so gun happy! At least you get a little exercise when stabbing someone, as you have to use more than a finger to kill that person! Probably why americans are so fat. Plus being knifed to death is a far more exciting way to die as it takes longer usually! We brits as always know best!

Should be part of a stand up routine. One worthwhile post in 10,000. Well done, Ben. Looking forward to laughing that much again in 10,000 posts time.

If legislation won't work, then what will?

A revoloution.

Errr, unless my eyesight has finally succumbed to the ale, it seems that you called Chris's post rubbish and then went on to agree with it...............

That's bollocks, Russ. He merely disagreed with what Chris had written and then went on to agree with it.

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