la force supreme des mclaren

Mosley Survives Vote........will Stay On

223 posts in this topic

How can he claim setup when he's not hiding anything then?

He is claiming that the Nazi connotations were put in precisely to discredit him and to bring up his and his father's past iirc.

Nothing to do with 45 years ago, it's to do with the present.

Oh come on, how many times his past and his father been mentioned in this whole saga?

that's not the real issue.

Mercedes Benz think that's the issue. So do BMW. So do the German body who are pulling out apparently.

Countries govenments/royal families, etc ,etc don't want him to be around when they are hosting a grand prix and they, like us, are entitled to their own opinions and moral values.

I think the world would be a wonderful place if we didn't have to give a damn about the 'moral values' of people who attain their positions through officially sanctioned nepotism.

I think there is a real possibility of a breakaway, especially if Max announces he is staying on. People said it could not happen with IndyCar and it did and look at the mess that resulted. I think not only are there a lot of interested clubs, but also countries and manufacturers that have an interest in this. At the end of the day Bernie will go wherever the money is and if there is all-out war between him and Max, I don't see Max winning.

People have placed way too much faith in what Bernie said. I expect him to come out with a 'let bygones by bygones' statement soon. Bernie plays the game without hypocrisy, since he doesn't need to maintain a front. So yeah, people looking on Bernie as their saviour are bound to be disappointed. And the less I say about the kind of desperation that is behind looking on Bernie of all people, the better.

Cav/Muzza I really don't understand why you are so delighted by this.

Well a few reasons:

I read the original piece in NOTW, and that's an insult to anyone's intelligence - how many times was his father mentioned in the article? Anyone who took that up is a blatant opportunist. And then people create self fulfilling prophecies, by launching a witch hunt, making sure that the affair got all that publicity and then gloating over the fact that 'royal families' refused to meet him.

I don't believe anyone in F1 is that clean, and cheating, lying, corruption and breaking the law are far worse crimes for me than what someone does in private which is noone else's business.

If you are championing a cause, for goodness sake pick someone more deserving than Max. And as far as his record of bad management and mishandling of F1 goes.... (e.g. selling the rights to Bernie for a ludicrously low value, Mclaren saga, excessive regulation, etc....) well....

I think Max's conduct through the Mclaren saga was exemplary, showed great leadership in the face of criticism and I still support his stand when he said that Mclaren should have been thrown out for two years. It's a matter of principle, and I don't believe there isn't a single prominent critic of Max who isn't throwing stones from a glass house. Name one person who's come out and criticized Max, who has always stood up for principles, and who wasn't using this whole affair opportunistically to push an obvious agenda they've always had.

Pur-lease. don't insult our intelligence. He was re-enacting scenes from prison camp, whilst speaking in German - you gonna tell me next he was really just a fan of 'Allo 'Allo..... Now who was it that ran prison camps in Germany....???

Read pabloh's post, he isn't convinced there were Nazi connotations either. I am sre that goes for a lot of his other critics, it may be blindingly obvious to you. My guess based on the info we have is that he was egged on, and that is hardly the time when you have the most self control. There's a reason why we do that stuff in private.

I presume you will have no problem with having everything you ever say taped and stored and used against you, since you condone this'investigation'?

He did do it in public, he went to party dressed up, for crying out loud! A 'private' party is just another way of saying you're not invited :lol:

And Max did it in Hyde Park?

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Well what a surprise, Pervy Max has got his bent cronies to support him....

I think this one will run and run....

I think there is a real possibility of a breakaway, especially if Max announces he is staying on. People said it could not happen with IndyCar and it did and look at the mess that resulted. I think not only are there a lot of interested clubs, but also countries and manufacturers that have an interest in this. At the end of the day Bernie will go wherever the money is and if there is all-out war between him and Max, I don't see Max winning.

Cav/Muzza I really don't understand why you are so delighted by this. If you are championing a cause, for goodness sake pick someone more deserving than Max. And as far as his record of bad management and mishandling of F1 goes.... (e.g. selling the rights to Bernie for a ludicrously low value, Mclaren saga, excessive regulation, etc....) well....

what about the good bits Meanioni. As controversial as he is, he has done some good things for the sport....

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I think Max's conduct through the Mclaren saga was exemplary, showed great leadership in the face of criticism and I still support his stand when he said that Mclaren should have been thrown out for two years. It's a matter of principle, and I don't believe there isn't a single prominent critic of Max who isn't throwing stones from a glass house. Name one person who's come out and criticized Max, who has always stood up for principles, and who wasn't using this whole affair opportunistically to push an obvious agenda they've always had.

That's where all that comes from.

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He is claiming that the Nazi connotations were put in precisely to discredit him and to bring up his and his father's past iirc.

Oh come on, how many times his past and his father been mentioned in this whole saga?

Mercedes Benz think that's the issue. So do BMW. So do the German body who are pulling out apparently.

I think the world would be a wonderful place if we didn't have to give a damn about the 'moral values' of people who attain their positions through officially sanctioned nepotism.

People have placed way too much faith in what Bernie said. I expect him to come out with a 'let bygones by bygones' statement soon. Bernie plays the game without hypocrisy, since he doesn't need to maintain a front. So yeah, people looking on Bernie as their saviour are bound to be disappointed. And the less I say about the kind of desperation that is behind looking on Bernie of all people, the better.

Well a few reasons:

I read the original piece in NOTW, and that's an insult to anyone's intelligence - how many times was his father mentioned in the article? Anyone who took that up is a blatant opportunist. And then people create self fulfilling prophecies, by launching a witch hunt, making sure that the affair got all that publicity and then gloating over the fact that 'royal families' refused to meet him.

I don't believe anyone in F1 is that clean, and cheating, lying, corruption and breaking the law are far worse crimes for me than what someone does in private which is noone else's business.

I think Max's conduct through the Mclaren saga was exemplary, showed great leadership in the face of criticism and I still support his stand when he said that Mclaren should have been thrown out for two years. It's a matter of principle, and I don't believe there isn't a single prominent critic of Max who isn't throwing stones from a glass house. Name one person who's come out and criticized Max, who has always stood up for principles, and who wasn't using this whole affair opportunistically to push an obvious agenda they've always had.

Read pabloh's post, he isn't convinced there were Nazi connotations either. I am sre that goes for a lot of his other critics, it may be blindingly obvious to you. My guess based on the info we have is that he was egged on, and that is hardly the time when you have the most self control. There's a reason why we do that stuff in private.

I presume you will have no problem with having everything you ever say taped and stored and used against you, since you condone this'investigation'?

And Max did it in Hyde Park?

Does anyone take any notice of what you say these days - i don't

You said...

:huh:

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He is claiming that the Nazi connotations were put in precisely to discredit him and to bring up his and his father's past iirc.

Well, he sort of lent himself to that when he started using a German accent, did he not?

Oh come on, how many times his past and his father been mentioned in this whole saga?

Honestly, I don't know, because I read part of the original scandal when it broke, watched a bit of the the vid and then I just didn't bother to read anymore about it, other than on the threads on here. I alreay knew of Max and his family's history from a long time ago, so it was nothing new.

Mercedes Benz think that's the issue. So do BMW. So do the German body who are pulling out apparently.

They have said it is the Nazi connotations that is causing them to pull out?

I think the world would be a wonderful place if we didn't have to give a damn about the 'moral values' of people who attain their positions through officially sanctioned nepotism.

There are so many things that I think would make this a wonderful place, none of it has to do with F1, Max or anybody in power, in that sense. However, other people are allowed to have their opinions and their own moral code, that's life.

And Max did it in Hyde Park?

He did it with 5 prostitutes in a brothel, for heaven's sake, how is that private??? How egotistically stupid did he have to be to think he could control them?

Edited by pabloh20

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Does anyone take any notice of what you say these days - i don't

:huh:

I do Fed Up.

But only because Cav's posts on this are an idealist pile of sh!te - or a wind-up.

Whilst it's OK to say what the NOTW did was not acceptable (I agree entirely), it's what happens after that. The comparisons brought up by Cav are completely irrelevant - at least because it's possible the right outcome didn't happen in his, and others examples and analogies (the lucky blow job President for example, and c'mon, this is normal :P ) - but still not a reason to not have the right outcome in this case.

Eddie Jordan says it nice 'n short, "My hope is he will think about the damage [done]. This is not a moral issue, it's a practical one," he said. (from the beeb).

I can only assume that Cav's income isn't affected by others perception of him, because the perceptions by others being essential to carry out the role of President of the FIA is the whole issue.

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Do we care about morals so much? Oh no, it is a practical issue now... Apparently a moral issue for the royals and a practical one for the professionals. Sh

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If Max really cared about the sport he would've stood down. F1 will suffer, a nice new black mark on the sport, as if there weren't enough. All because he needed to get off. Cheers Max.

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Do we care about morals so much? Oh no, it is a practical issue now... Apparently a moral issue for the royals and a practical one for the professionals. Sh

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You are right of course, but we live in a society where those that hold public office must and should be held accountable for their actions. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just from a personal perspective - if these figures were allowed to do what they want there would be no order or morality in society. Kids would not have role models and the orderley society as we know it would disintegrate right before our eyes.

Max has basically said; Fcuk all of you, I'm King and I can do what I want - regardless!

Not good -_-

I agree on that but Max will stay because he's (surprisingly?) won today. He should have resigned, yes I agree. And now what? Another 6 months talking about it?

Edited by AleHop

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I thought Max would survive the vote and stay, so no surprise here. I did not think he had to resign and now he's won the vote. My thoughts are that he is not going to have the same authority as before, his role is going to be limited; even this 'victory' for him is pretty much a defeat.

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I'm glad all this pathetic sensationalism is finally over and Max can be hopefully left alone to get on with his job. The only reason this episode affected his role is because of the idiotic song and dance that was made of it. Hidden agendas, jealousy and a reluctance for change by most of the big manufacturers and fans are the real reasons people wanted Mosely out, not because he likes having his arse spanked in a certain way.

Cast aside all your preconceptions and hang ups. Put aside the corporate rubbish and give me just one reason how a mans sexual preference has a direct influence on his ability to do his job effectively.

Now, can we move on? (I doubt it).

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Max has basically said; Fcuk all of you, I'm King and I can do what I want - regardless!

Not good -_-

Bollocks. We had a vote today. He won the vote.

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I'm glad all this pathetic sensationalism is finally over and Max can be hopefully left alone to get on with his job.

Nah Dribs, the problem is that because he did not resign it *won't* be over. Do you honestly think the press, his enemies, the manufacturers and clubs will forgive and forget?

This will run and run. Forget the morals, I've said all along his position is untenable as he has put himself in a position where he can no longer do his job.

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Bollocks. We had a vote today. He won the vote.

Exactly! And I understand what Max's done.

Many wanted him to leave and get lost but someone will realise it's wasted all the money paid for that tape. We should be happy about that. Who's worse Max or those who stay behind this farce?

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I'm glad all this pathetic sensationalism is finally over and Max can be hopefully left alone to get on with his job. The only reason this episode affected his role is because of the idiotic song and dance that was made of it. Hidden agendas, jealousy and a reluctance for change by most of the big manufacturers and fans are the real reasons people wanted Mosely out, not because he likes having his arse spanked in a certain way.

Cast aside all your preconceptions and hang ups. Put aside the corporate rubbish and give me just one reason how a mans sexual preference has a direct influence on his ability to do his job effectively.

Now, can we move on? (I doubt it).

When he's a paedohpile and a school teacher.

Now, give me one reason how a man who is sh!t at his job can keep getting re-elected as FIA president, if underhand tactics aren't involved? :lol:

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Nah Dribs, the problem is that because he did not resign it *won't* be over. Do you honestly think the press, his enemies, the manufacturers and clubs will forgive and forget?

Forgive and forget?

I think everybody on the tape was over 18.

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Nah Dribs, the problem is that because he did not resign it *won't* be over. Do you honestly think the press, his enemies, the manufacturers and clubs will forgive and forget?

Ron did, didn't he? Or did he.........?

This will run and run. Forget the morals, I've said all along his position is untenable as he has put himself in a position where he can no longer do his job.

He survived for ages before the vote. Now he has survived the vote. The vote of confidence. Is his position really more untenable as time goes on? If this were a leadership challenge within a political party we would all shut up after knowing that the leader had got the backing of two thirds of his members. Why are we still wanting his blood?

When he's a paedohpile and a school teacher.

Good point.

Now, give me one reason how a man who is sh!t at his job can keep getting re-elected as FIA president, if underhand tactics aren't involved? :lol:

It's your opinion that he is s##t at his job, many would disagree. It looks like 103 within his own organisation disagree, for a start. Underhand tactics? Maybe, but that's an unfounded opinion. If he was that unpopular this was the perfect and anonymous process to have him removed. The fact that he wasn't speaks volumes about the true picture of Max Moseley's popularity within the FIA.

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Now, give me one reason how a man who is sh!t at his job can keep getting re-elected as FIA president, if underhand tactics aren't involved? :lol:

How do you know he is not doing his job well? Because someone says so, or you are FIA insider knowledgeable about FIA proceedings and complete FIA actions?

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Max is crap at his job, the technical reforms he has made over the past couple of years have messed the sport up seriously. Personally I hope he does the right thing and retires on his own terms (soon) because it is clear that his staying on will cause a massive split in the motorsport world. Pretty much all of the votes against him where developed countries like Germany, the UK, the US ETC. Despite the uninformed opinion cav has, if the FIA lose the backing of the worlds MAJOR member states (I am talking about the important ones) then the ramifications are indeed very serious, as it is pretty clear that with the support max currently has if a breakaway where to occur, he could potentially be left with just 4 teams (maybe 3 if Williams where to follow the wishes of Toyota). Who would honestly watch F1 if the only teams left on the grid where Ferrari, Red Bull, and Toro Rosso.

Max knows the members of the motorsport world that really actually count are on the whole against him, as is Bernie apparently and he is fighting forces he cannot possibly defeat. I think the time has come for him to go otherwise the motorsport community and F1 in particular could be split with pretty bad results, just another scandal that threatens to destroy another season of excellent racing.

Could it be argued that Max could feel hard done by? maybe, but the fact remains that he has lost the confidence of most of the worlds most important motorsport federations, and regardless of the nuances of his offence he has to go. If he destroys the world of motorsport by stubbornly digging his heels in the blowback will be enormous.

Max, please do the right thing and step down before you destroy F1.

Why are they irrelevant? The royal stayed because he is a royal, he is judged by the Daily Mail. The president stayed because he was judged by the congress. Max stays becauswe he people who elected him still want him to stay.

They are irrelevant, because regardless of the nuances of their private life, a person cannot exactly be kicked out of a family. The situation is different because the royal in question was, at the time of his misdemeanour, not at the helm of one of the most powerful organisations in the world. When you are not on a throne, it is easier to recover from a social faux-pas. Not only that, Mosely was already a pretty unpopular figure which also makes it hard for him to survive.

Edited by Silver_Arrows

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They have said it is the Nazi connotations that is causing them to pull out?

BMW and Merc yes that's precisely what they objected to. The German body I am guessing because the Germans are boviously hypersensitive to any Nazi reference.

He did it with 5 prostitutes in a brothel, for heaven's sake, how is that private??? How egotistically stupid did he have to be to think he could control them?

Not a brothel. Some basement. I don't think we know yet who owns it, maybe he does? Either way, not a brothel.

But only because Cav's posts on this are an idealist pile of sh!te - or a wind-up.

Wow personal attacks now.

Whilst it's OK to say what the NOTW did was not acceptable (I agree entirely), it's what happens after that. The comparisons brought up by Cav are completely irrelevant

Why are they irrelevant? The royal stayed because he is a royal, he is judged by the Daily Mail. The president stayed because he was judged by the congress. Max stays becauswe he people who elected him still want him to stay.

You are right of course, but we live in a society where those that hold public office must and should be held accountable for their actions. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just from a personal perspective - if these figures were allowed to do what they want there would be no order or morality in society. Kids would not have role models and the orderley society as we know it would disintegrate right before our eyes.

You keep bringing his up. Max didn't hold public office. The people who elected him elected him again. A politician caught in something like this resigns because most likely, if his electorate had known, they wouldn't have elected him.

If I ever have kids and if they really need role models, I am going to make sure they don't come from a silly sport with big money, no morals or ethics. You're looking at F1 for role models?

This will run and run. Forget the morals, I've said all along his position is untenable as he has put himself in a position where he can no longer do his job.

They've been after him anyway.

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People have placed way too much faith in what Bernie said. I expect him to come out with a 'let bygones by bygones' statement soon. Bernie plays the game without hypocrisy, since he doesn't need to maintain a front. So yeah, people looking on Bernie as their saviour are bound to be disappointed. And the less I say about the kind of desperation that is behind looking on Bernie of all people, the better.

I should really make some money out of this prophecy stuff. ;):lol:

Ecclestone, who has called for Mosley to step down at the end of the year, said on Tuesday that his relationship with the Briton will not change.

He admitted, however, that he was hoping the FIA decision will not hurt Formula One.

"It's business as usual as far as I'm concerned. I hope it hasn't destabilised sponsors or manufacturers," Ecclestone told Reuters.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67965

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Does anyone take any notice of what you [Cav] say these days - i don't

No but then, in your own words, you're the guy who doesn't take any notice of "argument" preferring the lazy comfort of simply being in the "majority", and "lynching" anyone who disagrees. I take far more notice of Cav than you. In this thread, Cav has elevated the swatting of flies to an art form.

Again, nothing to do with it. Countries govenments/royal families, etc ,etc don't want him to be around when they are hosting a grand prix and they, like us, are entitled to their own opinions and moral values.

You don't really think that! We are all entitled to our own moral values? Is it OK if I feel like discriminating against Jews and black people on this forum? Don't worry - I will only do it to people who don't do their job of posting very well. :lol:

what about the good bits Meanioni. As controversial as he is, he has done some good things for the sport....

Indeed Brad. In fact he's far smarter than most of his detractors, as he has shown by out-witting them again today. Personally I think he's done a good job, and F1 would be better if he'd had more of his own way.

They have said it is the Nazi connotations that is causing them to pull out?

Of course that's a large part of it. Bernie himself said the alleged Nazi link was the most troublesome issue for the companies.

You are right of course, but we live in a society where those that hold public office must and should be held accountable for their actions. You have to look at the bigger picture and not just from a personal perspective - if these figures were allowed to do what they want there would be no order or morality in society. Kids would not have role models and the orderley society as we know it would disintegrate right before our eyes.

:lol: What a load of drivel. Max is now a "role model" for kids? And frankly I think Max has been no less moral than any of his detractors, who are using the scandal in a cynical way for their own ends.

Cast aside all your preconceptions and hang ups. Put aside the corporate rubbish and give me just one reason how a mans sexual preference has a direct influence on his ability to do his job effectively.

Indeed.

Who's worse Max or those who stay behind this farce?

Good question. Personally I think we're all as bad as Max. Of course most people don't like to face up to that reality.

When he's a paedohpile and a school teacher.

He's a pablohphile? Not another!

How do you know he is not doing his job well? Because someone says so, or you are FIA insider knowledgeable about FIA proceedings and complete FIA actions?

Good question. They don't know it at all. The fact that he managed to win the vote easily despite Rupert Murdoch's best efforts, despite predictions on here, despite idiots the world over, suggests that he actually is quite a formidable man.

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Max is crap at his job, the technical reforms he has made over the past couple of years have messed the sport up seriously.

Can you be a little more specific?

Personally I hope he does the right thing and retires on his own terms (soon) because it is clear that his staying on will cause a massive split in the motorsport world. Pretty much all of the votes against him where developed countries like Germany, the UK, the US ETC. Despite the uninformed opinion cav has, if the FIA lose the backing of the worlds MAJOR member states (I am talking about the important ones) then the ramifications are indeed very serious, as it is pretty clear that with the support max currently has if a breakaway where to occur, he could potentially be left with just 4 teams (maybe 3 if Williams where to follow the wishes of Toyota). Who would honestly watch F1 if the only teams left on the grid where Ferrari, Red Bull, and Toro Rosso.

A breakaway series? Just because the president of the FIA was caught shagging whores? Are you serious?

just another scandal that threatens to destroy another season of excellent racing.

I'll stop talking about it if you do.

Max, please do the right thing and step down before you destroy F1.

Our world has become drama obsessed.

Not only that, Mosely was already a pretty unpopular figure which also makes it hard for him to survive.

You do know he won today, right?

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I should really make some money out of this prophecy stuff.

Careful. If your head gets too inflated you will not fit through doorways.

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