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la force supreme des mclaren

Mosley Survives Vote........will Stay On

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No, The rule was changed because of Indy 05. And Because it was a safety hazard. there were a number of big failures because of the rule change, biggest being Kimi in Germany that year.

Indy was a michelin only problem, Kimis crash was his own fault.

The mass dampers were banned because they stabilized the front wing of the Renault. If the nose went up the dampers helped bring it down and vice versa to stabilise the front wing which is an aerodynamic device. Since the Dampers worked to help the wing work they are part of that aerodynamic device. since the dampers moved freely in relation to the car they are a moving device. Moving Device + aero device = Movable aerodynamic device.

I dont buy that. IIRC the idea of the damper was that it was a sprung weight in the front of the car that was designed with the same resonace frequency as the cars bodywork, the idea being that it absorbed vibrations and made the car more stable under breaking. Apart from reducing the amount of vibration the front wing suffers, I cannot see how it could possibly have an effect that dramatic on the wing itself.

You cant pick a choose and say, well here they favored Ferrari and here they didnt because of PR problems. The whole meaning of Favoritism is that they FIA would Favor Ferrari no matter what the outcome. Thats what you call spin doctoring, using one set of data but totally disregarding another set that gives slightly different results.

Not necessarily, it depends how badly you want to hide that favouritism.

The rules were very simple. The rules said a tiers running serfuace had to be a limited certain amount. Micheline design their tiers to have that area increase as the tire wore down. Hence they were banned.

So explain to me why the problem was known about all season by the FIA, and it was only altered at a crucial moment in the championship, when Michelin did not really have enough time to adjust

That was because at the time there was no rule forbidding team orders. Up until that point is was seen as a fair racing strategy to have the second drive give up the win or a points finish for the number one. Schumi Pushed Rubins onto the top step so hence the fine. If you read the April Issue of F1 Raicing they have a great article about some of the most famous team order incidents. All of whitch were seen as fair and just until Austria 02. And even now team orders are blatently obvious they are just not talked about so the FIA does nothing about them.

So what is your point? they got a 70k fine for breach of podium protocol. Whoop de do, hope it did not break the bank too much. Citing that as an example of ferrari getting punished is pretty funny really.

Well teams have protested it, including Ferrari and now The FIA had mandated a strut to keep it in place because other then Ferrari, more teams have started to protest

Strange, because apart from Ferrari and BMW every team now uses it or a similar version of it. Anyway if the wing where forced to be redisigned you do realise that would be against your argument right?

I am guessing you met admission. if you remember, the reason he said they were special was because they have taken part in every F1 season since the start, all he ment was that from a sporting haratige, Ferrari are special because no other team can say they have spent anywhere near as long a time at the top of the racing world. Its just like he Said Kubi was special because of him being from Poland, opening up that market. Now I doubt you are going to say Kubi is getting Preferential treatment from the FIA. And Mosley even said Hamilton was special and you clearly believe everybody is out to get him.

If you read what Mosley said about the ruling was that he found it a disappointment that the FIA would say that Meclaren broke the rules but because they did not use the data that was the reason for the rule breaking, was not going to get punished. If you want to call anything favoritism that is it. Saying you broke the rules but because you broke them in a certain way you dont get punished.

I disagree. Firstly, you often need to read between the lines of what is being said, Mosely is not known for his transparency at the best of times. Also at the top, that bit was amusing, until the schumacher era Ferrari had no better a record than anyone else. Also, I do not believe everyone is out to get Hamilton (in fact I never even mentioned him, I support lewis because he drives for the silver team, but my main driver is Alonso).

Also, if anything out of the drivers Alonso may have been deserving of punishment, but it is hardly fair to Penalise lewis when he had no involvement. However, Spygate was largely a team affair, and the team get nothing apart from a trophy and the #1 and 2 on their car from taking the WDC so it can be argued that the correct penalty was applied, because the team got nothing for the season and they took a huge financial penalty, plus the fact that the FIA refused to check the McLaren factory, admitted they probably wouldnt find anything, and never conclusively proved that McLaren actually USED the data on their race car, banning the drivers would have set a dangerous precedent.

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but the rules say u do not need to USE the data, it is already against the rules to just have it. And Meclaren did, and until everybody roared in anger that Merc did not get penalized there was no punishment what so ever placed on them until the second time round. So they had clearly broken the rules by having the data even if they didn't use it and they did not get punished the first time.

so what you are really saying is that the FIA favors Michael because once once he was at ferrari did they show them favoritism?

also, the thing about penalizing Hamilton, F1 is still a team sport, you live by the team and die by the team. If Hamilton had nothing to do with it he is still part of the team. When the itallian soccer scandle hit a year back people didn't say, oh punish the team but not the players. the teams were sent down a level and so the players had to deal with it.

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Not necessarily, it depends how badly you want to hide that favouritism.

Rubbish. You are desperate for grey when it's black and white. Read Fanatics response to your previous comment again, he put it brilliantly.

So explain to me why the problem was known about all season by the FIA, and it was only altered at a crucial moment in the championship, when Michelin did not really have enough time to adjust

How do you know they knew about it all year long before the protestation? Anyway, that's not the issue (if it were, the Michelin teams should have lost their points, but let's not be facetious). The point is, the tyres, when worn down, were to wide. That fact is inescapable and by definition, illegal.

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Raised this old thread again as the news re Mosley's court case has hit the press.

Does anyone else find it a bit strange that Max should be stood in a witness box talking about how this scandal has tragically affected his family, life etc and yet is very happy to volunteer details of his sex life spanning 45 years and openly discussing what went on in the NOTW sting?

If it were me, I'd want to quietly bury this one and move on after getting the vote of confidence from FIA.

Smacks of either arrogance/lack of compassion or just plain stupidity.

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I haven't read much about it recently, though I did notice he's appeared in court. Max is great! All hail Max! :bow:

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Raised this old thread again as the news re Mosley's court case has hit the press.

Does anyone else find it a bit strange that Max should be stood in a witness box talking about how this scandal has tragically affected his family, life etc and yet is very happy to volunteer details of his sex life spanning 45 years and openly discussing what went on in the NOTW sting?

If it were me, I'd want to quietly bury this one and move on after getting the vote of confidence from FIA.

Smacks of either arrogance/lack of compassion or just plain stupidity.

We always come back to square one don't we?

Why? Who're you to pass judgement on his sex life? If he had been filmed doing the same with his wife you would be commending him for being so brave as to stand up in court and talk about it.

His private life is his private life, it has nothing to do with your self righteous definition of what's right and what isn't.

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His private life is his private life, it has nothing to do with your self righteous definition of what's right and what isn't.

Doh Cav! My whole point is why does Max feel that he has to make his private life public! (voluntarily this time)

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Doh Cav! My whole point is why does Max feel that he has to make his private life public! (voluntarily this time)

He is testifying in court. Something about the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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Who're you to pass judgement on his sex life?

Ironic abbeviation.

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Yes, but he chose to take it to court.

Obviously. So would I if someone printed in a newspaper that I am a Nazi. Wouldn't you? Mind you, you would probably lose your job and be completely ostracized if you don't.

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Obviously. So would I if someone printed in a newspaper that I am a Nazi. Wouldn't you? Mind you, you would probably lose your job and be completely ostracized if you don't.

No in his situation I probably wouldn't - given that this was supposed to be an invasion of his privacy I find it a bit strange that he voluntarily submits to having it opened up even more publicly.

He hasn't lost his job and the outcome of this court case won't make the slightest difference to anyone ostracizing him. He doesn't need the money.

Personally I would have let it drop and concentrated on healing the wounds to my family.

All this is going to achieve is to create more headlines, upset his family further and make his job more difficult as we get exposed to all the sordid little details of what happened. It also will just make him look more of a fool "I was speaking in German as it gives more of a sound of authority..." yeah, right!

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I think he's a bit damned either way. If he goes to court to clear his name, he opens himself and his family to further pain and ridicule. However, if he feels that he needs to clear his name, the pain could be worth it.

At least his defiance (think of it what you will) is consistent.

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I think people are very presumptuous about his family and how 'hurt' they are. It is more than possible that his wife knew what was going on all along. Anyway, testifying in court will not do anything that video didn't, whereas Murdoch and co. getting a huge fine wouldn't hurt his cause at all - especially if he decides to stand for reelection next year...

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I think people are very presumptuous about his family and how 'hurt' they are. It is more than possible that his wife knew what was going on all along.

Mosley says: the publicity had been "totally devastating" for his wife of 48 years, and he could think of "nothing more undignified or humiliating" for his two sons to experience.

Hmmmm, so why extend the devastation, indignity and humiliation?

Anyway, testifying in court will not do anything that video didn't, whereas Murdoch and co. getting a huge fine wouldn't hurt his cause at all - especially if he decides to stand for reelection next year...

Well I think its worse actually as 1) it will all be replayed in all its detail and 2) inevitably the questions will go broader into other aspects of his private life. Taking on a tabloid is also, long-term a tad foolish as they will be gunning for him at every opportunity.

I think that now post FIA decision, this matter should be kept private (you and Muzza were arguing this all along, anyway) and that this is just an ill-judged and arrogant act of vanity/vengeance.

The other thing to consider - what if the court does not find in his favour?

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Mosley says: the publicity had been "totally devastating" for his wife of 48 years, and he could think of "nothing more undignified or humiliating" for his two sons to experience.

Hmmmm, so why extend the devastation, indignity and humiliation?

Well I think its worse actually as 1) it will all be replayed in all its detail and 2) inevitably the questions will go broader into other aspects of his private life. Taking on a tabloid is also, long-term a tad foolish as they will be gunning for him at every opportunity.

I think that now post FIA decision, this matter should be kept private (you and Muzza were arguing this all along, anyway) and that this is just an ill-judged and arrogant act of vanity/vengeance.

The other thing to consider - what if the court does not find in his favour?

Why did he go to 5 prostitutes then ?!

If he would have been a loyal family man who kept his pants on and a good FIA president there wouldn't have been any problem right now.

It's his own doing .

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I think he's a bit damned either way. If he goes to court to clear his name, he opens himself and his family to further pain and ridicule. However, if he feels that he needs to clear his name, the pain could be worth it.

At least his defiance (think of it what you will) is consistent.

Indeed.

I think that now post FIA decision, this matter should be kept private (you and Muzza were arguing this all along, anyway) and that this is just an ill-judged and arrogant act of vanity/vengeance.

The other thing to consider - what if the court does not find in his favour?

Exactly. He is in a lose-lose situation now.

If the court finds in his favour, people will still refer to what they saw in the video and rightly or wrongly say 'I know what I saw in the video and if that's not the act of a nazi, then I'll kiss the sunny side of his arse (well it is preferable to his face :whistling: )'. If the court doesn't find in his favour, then people will say 'It was obvious that he was a nazi all along'.

In this instance, because of the video, I don't think the outcome of a court case will change anybody's mind as such.

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The point is - something like this has bound to have gone on for a while. So what? Thats his business! Its not affected his job before the story was released into the public eye.

The fact that he's even taking it to court suggests to me that his wife and family are supporting him 100%

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Why did he go to 5 prostitutes then ?!

If he would have been a loyal family man who kept his pants on and a good FIA president there wouldn't have been any problem right now.

It's his own doing .

The statement doesn't say that he 'loves his wife, his marriage is perfect and that it's not him in the video'. It says that his wife and family are devastated. Therefore your question of 'why did he go to them' has no significance to the statement. Why did he go with the prostitutes? Maybe he wanted to. It's not our business to question.

Now, excuse me. I'm going back to my self righteous observation tower to pass judgement on all and sundry.

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Mosley says: the publicity had been "totally devastating" for his wife of 48 years, and he could think of "nothing more undignified or humiliating" for his two sons to experience.

Hmmmm, so why extend the devastation, indignity and humiliation?

Could hardly get any worse could it? What I mean is I don't think hi family particularly his wife were oblivious to it for 45 years.

Taking on a tabloid is also, long-term a tad foolish as they will be gunning for him at every opportunity.

They are anyway.

I think that now post FIA decision, this matter should be kept private (you and Muzza were arguing this all along, anyway) and that this is just an ill-judged and arrogant act of vanity/vengeance.

Why? IF that paper can get slapped with a huge fine, it's well worth it.

The other thing to consider - what if the court does not find in his favour?

I don't know, I am not a lawyer. People who sue go in expecting to win though. Sounds like he has a case, but I know very little of French privacy laws except that they are strict.

If the court finds in his favour, people will still refer to what they saw in the video and rightly or wrongly say 'I know what I saw in the video and if that's not the act of a nazi, then I'll kiss the sunny side of his arse (well it is preferable to his face :whistling: )'. If the court doesn't find in his favour, then people will say 'It was obvious that he was a nazi all along'.

He is not doing it for Joe average to change his mind. It will make it harder for the cheap ublicity seeking groups to issue stupid press releases and give him a powerful tool to use to try and get reelected next year.

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He is not doing it for Joe average to change his mind. It will make it harder for the cheap ublicity seeking groups to issue stupid press releases and give him a powerful tool to use to try and get reelected next year.

It won't make a blind bit of difference to cheap publicity seeking groups. It never has before, it ain't going to start now.

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He is not doing it for Joe average to change his mind. It will make it harder for the cheap ublicity seeking groups to issue stupid press releases and give him a powerful tool to use to try and get reelected next year.

Cav I can't be a*sed to argue with you any further as yet again on the Mosley issue you are being far too idealistic.

Again all I will say is "let's see". I can't see any good coming out from this legal action.

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