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mikathegreat2

Driver Of The Day

Driver of the Day  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. Driver of the Day???

    • Massa
      4
    • Kimi
      8
    • Trulli
      39
    • Kovy
      3
    • Kubica
      0
    • Webber
      3
    • Piquet
      3
    • Alonso
      1
    • Other
      0


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My comments above have been misconstrued. I'm not saying Lewis is the next Michael or Senna...what I mean is that his impact on F1 has been similar to both Senna & Michael. He may fulfil his promise as a WDC or he may not, nevertheless he is the biggest draw in F1 at the moment and he hasn't even won a WDC. At this point in his f1 career he has achieved significantly more than any other F1 driver that I can recall - some will argue that is the car etc etc, but Heikki is proving that theory to be flawed as he does not have the pace of his team mate.

Lewis is his own man like Nando is his etc etc

:lol: For once I agree with every word. Andres has a knack of misconstruing posts. ;) To add to your post, in Kimi's second year of F1 he was roundly beaten by DC in the other McLaren, and look at how many mistakes Michael was still making in 1994, his 4th season. And... it's quite possible to be the next Schumi and be a rookie.

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My comments above have been misconstrued. I'm not saying Lewis is the next Michael or Senna...what I mean is that his impact on F1 has been similar to both Senna & Michael. He may fulfil his promise as a WDC or he may not, nevertheless he is the biggest draw in F1 at the moment and he hasn't even won a WDC. At this point in his f1 career he has achieved significantly more than any other F1 driver that I can recall - some will argue that is the car etc etc, but Heikki is proving that theory to be flawed as he does not have the pace of his team mate.

Lewis is his own man like Nando is his etc etc

Ahhh, ok.

But still...what impact you mean. If you are talking about the impact Senna and Schumi had in their first 2 years, then yes, his impact is similar. Of course, there have been plenty of rookies who impressed everybody as much as Senna or Schumi...only to fade aways as quick as they rose to the top.

Yes, it is true, Lewis was one of the most exciting features in recent times. But he still needs to improve if he is to fulfill the prophecy everybody made about him. Is not so much the lack of skills what is killing him, is the gap between enormous expectations and his pace of reaching maturity what is hindering him right now.

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My opinion is that the term "rookie" should only apply to the first full season, especially when used as an excuse for making mistakes. Once you've had a year, you have to start taking some responsibility for your errors.

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[quote name='abbas_gear' post='257978' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:13 PM']I admit one should not use the word rookie anymore, but just remember it took Micheal years to reach the level he attained. I don't really think any formula1 driver is the best thing to have happened, infact its too unfair to say so and so is the best thing to have happened, I don't judge a driver in just one year. What I like about Lewis is the way he came to F1. It was one bloody hard work. I would have myself told the press to p**s off if they kept asking me annoying questions and spreading rumours. You are Mahatma Gandhi or Jesus Christ? You don't get angry? You don't show your anger? Don't you remember how many times Micheal has walked without answering the questions from the press? I don't bloody give a damn about it, honestly he was just being himself, I would have reacted the same way he did after last GP.[/quote]
Yes, Schumi was not Schumi until he arrived to Ferrari and the Brawn/Todt/Schumi reached full potential. Had he left after Benetton, he would have been yet another great driver but nothing else. Ditto for Senna at Toleman or Lotus.

I am not Ghandi, and I am related with Jesus only because I am too a descendant of King David :whistling: I get angry, I show my anger. You are right, he had every right to be angry. Now, tell me: why can't Alonso be angry and show it without being considered the Anti Christ?. :P Let's face it, Lewis is arrogant. Nando is arrogant. Michael was arrogant. Michael has the upper hand in this, he was much better at handling his own arrogance than Lewis or Nando.

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:lol: For once I agree with every word. Andres has a knack of misconstruing posts. ;) To add to your post, in Kimi's second year of F1 he was roundly beaten by DC in the other McLaren, and look at how many mistakes Michael was still making in 1994, his 4th season. And... it's quite possible to be the next Schumi and be a rookie.

Yes, sometimes it takes me a while to understand other people's posts. It is hard for me to express whole concepts in such short space. And yes, I do tend to extrapolate which is always a bad thing.

In my defense, I try to see my errors, and fight my own bias. A concept that might be useful to you, Mr.Wind Up Merchant :P

Yes, of course it is possible to be the next Schumi and be a roookie. It is also possible to be a newborn baby and be the next Schumi. Phrased like that, the whole concept becomes trivial. Does he has the potential? Maybe, I can't see what more can we say.

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In my defense, I try to see my errors, and fight my own bias. A concept that might be useful to you, Mr.Wind Up Merchant :P

:lol: Oh come on, Andres. Be fair! I'm always fighting your bias. :P

Yes, sometimes it takes me a while to understand other people's posts. It is hard for me to express whole concepts in such short space. And yes, I do tend to extrapolate which is always a bad thing.

Yeah well sometimes my posts are a bit lazy and, given their shamelessly provocative nature, are just asking to be misconstrued. Btw I wasn't referring to your English, which is perfect. Anyway, I think we can all agree that Lewis has a lot to prove. Right now Kubica looks pretty handy in the long term - we will probably see those two fighting each other for a long time to come.

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My comments above have been misconstrued. I'm not saying Lewis is the next Michael or Senna...what I mean is that his impact on F1 has been similar to both Senna & Michael. He may fulfil his promise as a WDC or he may not, nevertheless he is the biggest draw in F1 at the moment and he hasn't even won a WDC.

One must agree with that.

At this point in his f1 career he has achieved significantly more than any other F1 driver that I can recall - some will argue that is the car etc etc, but Heikki is proving that theory to be flawed as he does not have the pace of his team mate.

He certainly has had the best first season and a half than any other driver before (though I can't remember how good Villeneuve's first half of his second season was). Nevertheless, one can't trivialize the significance of the car: he was able to have the best rookie season ever only because he had such a good car to drive. This does not mean that Lewis' contribution was insignificant either; many other drivers would not have been able to pull such a season with that car, I could even go as far as say that such drivers are quite rare. However, not many drivers are given the chance Lewis was, kudos to Lewis for using that chance as well as he did.

On comparing Lewis and Heikki... given Heikki's problems all through season during the race day, I wouldn't go as far as say he doesn't have the pace to match that of Lewis. In my opinion, Heikki has been more convincing, and shown more pace, during Saturday's, only to have his race destroyed for some reason or another, mostly for no fault of his own (except for Canada, which was a poor race for Heikki).

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Yeah well sometimes my posts are a bit lazy and, given their shamelessly provocative nature, are just asking to be misconstrued.

Muzza, being a non confrontationist? Everybody run to their fallout shelters! The Armaggedon is coming! :P

Same happens to me. I know some phrases might be misunderstood. So I write another one to explain it...and then another one to try to explain the last explanation...and so on. That's why I am incapable of saying anything in less than 30 paragraphs except for "bollocks"

Btw I wasn't referring to your English, which is perfect.

My English is far from perfect, I know enough English to realize that :P And no, I never thought you were talking about my English.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that Lewis has a lot to prove. Right now Kubica looks pretty handy in the long term - we will probably see those two fighting each other for a long time to come.

Yup and yup. As for Lewis vs Nando, I think they both can be subject of many similar praises and criticisms. However, there are some asymetries. One that benefited Nando the most is that he started as an obscure Minardi driver, so he had time to develop his talents with relatively low pressure for the first years. Lewis had to make his debut when all the spotlights were already aimed at him. And that's an ungrateful position. He is now facing what I've said a couple of weeks ago: the press loves to make god out of ordinary men only to demolish them later. In fact, he said something similar this past weekend.

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No, he was a disaster for the sport.

And you call Murray a wind up merchant :P Won't bite, sorry.

My comments above have been misconstrued. I'm not saying Lewis is the next Michael or Senna...what I mean is that his impact on F1 has been similar to both Senna & Michael. He may fulfil his promise as a WDC or he may not, nevertheless he is the biggest draw in F1 at the moment and he hasn't even won a WDC.

Rubbish. His impact has been a few good races. Maybe yo're biased because you're in England. I don't know, but I have seen what MS/ Senna did for the popularity of F1 in places where it had zero presence.

At this point in his f1 career he has achieved significantly more than any other F1 driver that I can recall

No no no. And that is before you take the car out of the equation. JV has a brighter career start. And a few others in the past, can't be bothered digging it up. If you take the car out of it, well he matched Alonso last year, this year, he's been a mess. The general stanadrd of driving this year has been poor so he doesn't look that bad, but he still wouldn't make the top 5 drivers of the year.

I admit one should not use the word rookie anymore, but just remember it took Micheal years to reach the level he attained.

Crap. His performances even in his first couple of years in circumstances where he could overcome the performance deficit of his car were stunning. Lewis can't even make progress if he gets a little qualifying penalty.

:lol: For once I agree with every word. Andres has a knack of misconstruing posts. ;) To add to your post, in Kimi's second year of F1 he was roundly beaten by DC in the other McLaren, and look at how many mistakes Michael was still making in 1994, his 4th season. And... it's quite possible to be the next Schumi and be a rookie.

Michael was getting shafted by the FIA more than he was making mistakes in 1994. 94-97 was spent taking the fight to Williams in inferior cars, which is why Frank is one of MS's greater admirers.

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Absolutely. Any family member you value the opinion of is worth having around in the sort of enviroment where reactions could be extreme without level headed rationalising.

I wonder if you may be missing the point.

Sure, a loving family is great to have... just ask those that don't have it. Does Hamilton have it? I don't know but I hope so... as I hope all of you do too.

But that has little to do with the situation at hand. Hamilton's father is now a big player. If he is capable of handling it, it is reasonable to ask why he didn't display the skill before... iow, how come this guy didn't succeed on his own and needs his kid to do well... after all, he's now handling million dollar contracts and such.

One could argue that anyone of us has the latent skill to counsel and manage an F1 driver... or one could argue that the chances of such are nearly nil. Furthermore, one could argue that EVEN if anyone of us had the skill, only 100% pure arrogance would make us believe that we would be better at it than professionals.

Think it over and now consider Hamilton's father real motives... and why so few (any?) fathers ever get involved... even when they know far far far more than Hamilton's father about the sport.

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But in this particular case the paper is famous in England for being the worst paper in the country, read by the worst kind of people.

Nevertheless I'm inclined to agree with you- Alonso is not the issue when discussing Hamilton's crap driving. Having said that, Alonso himself came out with a fantastic quote in an ITV interview. I can't remember the exact words but they asked him if he thought he had been painted by the press as a "comic book villain". He replied "perhaps, but at least if I am a villain I am one of the main characters", which I thought was a pretty good attitude.

This year Nando has definitely gone up in my eyes, and Lewis has definitely gone down.

Interesting...

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Where did I say such a thing? And in any case, the coverage is so bad in some countries that this doesn't prove the British press isn't the best at all.

Apparently, some of those countries where the coverage is "so bad" include the UK... as far as some of the posters around here say...

Besides which you have a short memory.. about this as about everything else. Just read what you write below:

But... I didn't compare Alonso with Hamilton, or at least not until other people tried to. I simply said Hamilton's mistakes aren't as awful as people have been making out; and Alonso has been making worse mistakes than people have pointed out.

Your exact words in previous posts: No one's denying Hamilton has had a few bad races. But your guy was being beaten by DC at this point in his career. In that context I don't think Hamilton is in such a crisis.

:lol: Phewww. For a second there I thought you were one of those people who actually thought he was talented and worth keeping an eye on.

One thing has nothing to do with the other... except in the mind of someone obsessed.

Is Alonso talented? Sure. So are many in the grid...

Is he worth keeping an eye on? Sure. So are many in the grid...

Is he the scapegoat to blame for the shortcomings of driver X on? Nope. Neither him nor anyone else in the grid...

Are his (mis)fortunes worth the delight of any sane person? Nope, my friend, nope.

If Alonso were to quit tomorrow and take up farming, would F1 survive? Hilarious. They can all go for all I care... at this point. F1 has taken a serious dive in quality...

Is Hamilton's poor showing less so because of what Alonso is doing or not doing? Hilarious to the nth power, my friend... and I think you know it too.

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I wonder if you may be missing the point.

Sure, a loving family is great to have... just ask those that don't have it. Does Hamilton have it? I don't know but I hope so... as I hope all of you do too.

But that has little to do with the situation at hand. Hamilton's father is now a big player. If he is capable of handling it, it is reasonable to ask why he didn't display the skill before... iow, how come this guy didn't succeed on his own and needs his kid to do well... after all, he's now handling million dollar contracts and such.

One could argue that anyone of us has the latent skill to counsel and manage an F1 driver... or one could argue that the chances of such are nearly nil. Furthermore, one could argue that EVEN if anyone of us had the skill, only 100% pure arrogance would make us believe that we would be better at it than professionals.

Think it over and now consider Hamilton's father real motives... and why so few (any?) fathers ever get involved... even when they know far far far more than Hamilton's father about the sport.

It doesn't matter whether Anthony Hamilton was a refuse collector or a chairman of a multi million dollar organisation; he is Lewis's father. Nothing else matters.

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....and why so few (any?) fathers ever get involved... even when they know far far far more than Hamilton's father about the sport.

Yeah of course: Mario Andretti, Graham Hill, Michael Andretti, Keke Rosberg, Jackie Stewart, Nelson Piquet, etc never had any involvement in their son's racing interests.... <_< .....

Oh yeah and blah, blah, Hamilton, super-blah..... :yawn:

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It doesn't matter whether Anthony Hamilton was a refuse collector or a chairman of a multi million dollar organisation; he is Lewis's father. Nothing else matters.

That makes the guy knowledgeable? You must be joking...

Yeah of course: Mario Andretti, Graham Hill, Michael Andretti, Keke Rosberg, Jackie Stewart, Nelson Piquet, etc never had any involvement in their son's racing interests.... <_< .....

Oh yeah and blah, blah, Hamilton, super-blah..... :yawn:

Thank you for proving my point, my dear echolalia clown.

Those few you mention (few compared to all drivers and managers that have ever participated in F1) all have experience light-years ahead of Hamilton's father and all have found success without leeching off their sons...

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Yup and yup. As for Lewis vs Nando, I think they both can be subject of many similar praises and criticisms. However, there are some asymetries. One that benefited Nando the most is that he started as an obscure Minardi driver, so he had time to develop his talents with relatively low pressure for the first years. Lewis had to make his debut when all the spotlights were already aimed at him. And that's an ungrateful position. He is now facing what I've said a couple of weeks ago: the press loves to make god out of ordinary men only to demolish them later. In fact, he said something similar this past weekend.

Yeah, the British press sure does that. I think if I were a sportsman I'd try to avoid reading the F1 press. What good can it do. (Tbh I rarely read the F1 press as it is.)

Michael was getting shafted by the FIA more than he was making mistakes in 1994. 94-97 was spent taking the fight to Williams in inferior cars, which is why Frank is one of MS's greater admirers.

True, MS was easily the best driver that year, and he deserved to win. He made a few mistakes along the way but everyone knew he was by far the best.

Apparently, some of those countries where the coverage is "so bad" include the UK... as far as some of the posters around here say...

Besides which you have a short memory.. about this as about everything else. Just read what you write below:

True, I definitely do have a short memory when it comes to things I never said. I wonder how you manage to remember all these imaginary statements other people don't make.

One thing I did say was that the Spanish F1 press is worse, and you're right... most of the Spanish speakers agree with me.

Your exact words in previous posts: No one's denying Hamilton has had a few bad races. But your guy was being beaten by DC at this point in his career. In that context I don't think Hamilton is in such a crisis.

:lol: Dear, oh dear Maure. Remind those of us with short memories, who exactly is "your guy"? I didn't think it was Alonso - who you say is no great talent and isn't worthy of much attention. Only to you will it make Maure-sense to say Alonso, rather than someone else, was beaten by DC in his second year in F1.

Why waste your breath on a driver that is 9th in the DWC and on the 7th team in the CWC?
That Alonso, a driver most of us care about only marginally at best
Is Alonso talented? Sure. So are many in the grid...

Is he worth keeping an eye on? Sure. So are many in the grid...

:lol: Yes, I've often wondered why people support Alonso. After all, in Maure's opinion, he's nothing special...

Is Hamilton's poor showing less so because of what Alonso is doing or not doing?

And I have said in this very thread that Hamilton has been doing badly. I didn't try to compare him to Alonso, but other people conflated two separate points I made in one thread. If you look at my first post, I was careful to say that the two points are not related.

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Thank you for proving my point, my dear echolalia clown.

Oh Maure that's the second time recently where you have been insulting to me. I shall not stoop to your level and reciprocate.

The sad thing was that recently when you were not around I said I missed your postings. What was I thinking.....???

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That makes the guy knowledgeable? You must be joking...

I didn't say that. I mean that he only has Lewis's interests at heart. Your suggestion that his father's intentions are questionable is cynical in the extreme.

What was I thinking.....???

If you don't step in sh!t for a while you begin to wonder what it smells like.

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I wonder if you may be missing the point.

Sure, a loving family is great to have... just ask those that don't have it. Does Hamilton have it? I don't know but I hope so... as I hope all of you do too.

But that has little to do with the situation at hand. Hamilton's father is now a big player. If he is capable of handling it, it is reasonable to ask why he didn't display the skill before... iow, how come this guy didn't succeed on his own and needs his kid to do well... after all, he's now handling million dollar contracts and such.

One could argue that anyone of us has the latent skill to counsel and manage an F1 driver... or one could argue that the chances of such are nearly nil. Furthermore, one could argue that EVEN if anyone of us had the skill, only 100% pure arrogance would make us believe that we would be better at it than professionals.

Think it over and now consider Hamilton's father real motives... and why so few (any?) fathers ever get involved... even when they know far far far more than Hamilton's father about the sport.

I think Lewis' dad must have his sons best interests at heart, and he did bring him up through all the various motorsport categories (getting sponsorship money, dealing with teams, whatever) so he must know a fair bit. I just don't think the problem with Lewis' driving at the moment is his dad or anything to do with management, his dad is a constant, whereas the pressure from the press is new (Lewis didn't have pressure last year, not until the end, which he screwed up, so this might reveal Lewis struggles with pressure). We shall see. I think it's all blown out of proportion, he's just having a bad patch.

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I think Lewis' dad must have his sons best interests at heart, and he did bring him up through all the various motorsport categories (getting sponsorship money, dealing with teams, whatever) so he must know a fair bit. I just don't think the problem with Lewis' driving at the moment is his dad or anything to do with management, his dad is a constant, whereas the pressure from the press is new (Lewis didn't have pressure last year, not until the end, which he screwed up, so this might reveal Lewis struggles with pressure). We shall see. I think it's all blown out of proportion, he's just having a bad patch.

That's way too rational. There simply must be more to it than that.

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Trulli is still the driver of the day :P

And, as usual, Rainmaster says all I have to say, and much better.

Maure, you must've read Murray's post diagonally or something because it's clear he's talking about Kimi... (it can happen, but then half a page of rant goes down the drain... pity)

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Been away from tf1 for a while,and it took me a few hours to read all the posts I had missed...

Trulli surprised me.Well done!

And Massa leading the standings...errm..no comment.

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Been away from tf1 for a while,and it took me a few hours to read all the posts I had missed...

Trulli surprised me.Well done!

And Massa leading the standings...errm..no comment.

Awww don't feel bad! We didn't miss you at all! Really!

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Awww don't feel bad! We didn't miss you at all! Really!

Aww so sweet! :P

Elgo's off to spam Andr

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