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Massa Wdc For 2008

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My Dad would love to see Massa win the WDC as he always hated Kimi in his McLaren days but it ain't over till its over!

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When Felipe gets pole and gets into his groove on race day he puts in some absolutely awesome performances. I need to see Felipe win races that he shouldn't win to convince myself that he has the goods to be World Champion.

Convincing you, my friend, is irrelevant. All he needs to do is win when he is on top and maximise points when he is not. For all intents and purposes that is what Kubica is doing at the moment and, but for the pace of development of the BMW, he would stand a good chance of a WDC. Massa has also been the better driver since the opening 2 races of the season so how you maintain that Kimi is the better driver doesn't make sense to me.

Kimi is faster than Massa, of that there is no doubt however, Kimi is also prone to making mistakes and is not faster than Massa on every track. The gap to Kimi is 5 points and 10 points to Lewis, if the lead to kimi increases Ferrari will soon make a call to back one of their drivers for the WDC which could favour the Brazilian as it favoured Kimi in 07.

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My Dad would love to see Massa win the WDC as he always hated Kimi in his McLaren days but it ain't over till its over!

You always speak about your dad! :D You should ask him to join this forum, its never too late for TF1 since there are lotsa old farts here! :P

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I need to see Felipe win races that he shouldn't win to convince myself that he has the goods to be World Champion.

What races did Raikkonen win (this season or the last) that he shouldn't? Not counting team orders and mistakes/problems from the leaders. I can't remember any.

When Raikkonen wins from lights to flag, it's the skills. When Massa does the same, it's always the car.

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What races did Raikkonen win (this season or the last) that he shouldn't? Not counting team orders and mistakes/problems from the leaders. I can't remember any.

When Raikkonen wins from lights to flag, it's the skills. When Massa does the same, it's always the car.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Massa rarely gets any credit.

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The best driver this year is Robert Kubica, but he dosent have the car to carry on to win the title, As judged in France in particular. But considering that Massa has been consistant and fast, and he has the quickest car, Kimi i really I dont know he dosent seem hungry enough for the title, well at least he dosent seem it yet, Lewis can only get better, so i would say that Massa is a genuine title contender, also having Michael Schumacher in his corner helps too, dosent it.

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I agree,I'm one of the people that have underrated Massa. -_-

I think that there are two different points of view:

-No matter how he gets the wins,if he gets them(that is,if he leads from the start and wins,that's perfect)

-I need something else.More "agressive" driving,a couple of brilliant races where he starts from the back,etc.

Of course he can win it,and I won't say he doesn't deserve it,but I would never support someone like Massa.I think that he needs that extra "something" that champions have. Also like someone said,against Kimi he needs Kimi to fail.

Btw,I've noticed that people say that Kimi is a lazy guy,and if he has a bad weekend it's because he's lazy and he can't bother.I don't agree.

If Hamilton has a bad weekend,he's an overambitious prat.If Alonso has it,he's pushing above what he can do and throwing his toys out of the pram.If Massa does it,he's not a top driver,and he makes many mistakes.Etc etc.I mean,if any other driver doesn't perform,it's because they're under pressure,but if it's Kimi,people tend to excuse him by saying that he's just too lazy.Just a random rant.

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:lol: Indeed. Yet again the WDC doesn't show us who the best drivers are at all.

Ofcourse the WDC shows who the best are, maybe the absolute best may not always win but as Eddie Jordan always said, "The best drivers get the best cars."

I highly doubt Ide would be WDC just because he drove for Ferrari. The Meclaren and Ferrari are pretty much Identical in form. really the four drivers there are on a pretty level field

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I agree,I'm one of the people that have underrated Massa. -_-

I think that there are two different points of view:

-No matter how he gets the wins,if he gets them(that is,if he leads from the start and wins,that's perfect)

-I need something else.More "agressive" driving,a couple of brilliant races where he starts from the back,etc.

Of course he can win it,and I won't say he doesn't deserve it,but I would never support someone like Massa.I think that he needs that extra "something" that champions have. Also like someone said,against Kimi he needs Kimi to fail.

Btw,I've noticed that people say that Kimi is a lazy guy,and if he has a bad weekend it's because he's lazy and he can't bother.I don't agree.

If Hamilton has a bad weekend,he's an overambitious prat.If Alonso has it,he's pushing above what he can do and throwing his toys out of the pram.If Massa does it,he's not a top driver,and he makes many mistakes.Etc etc.I mean,if any other driver doesn't perform,it's because they're under pressure,but if it's Kimi,people tend to excuse him by saying that he's just too lazy.Just a random rant.

lovely post. Mr Murray Walker seems to be spreading these lazy excuses quite a bit.

Mark my words my friends, and mark it well....from now onwards, it'll be the Kimi Raikkonen show. and no one will be able to stop him. Remember, Massa must have his bad days yet. Making 2 driver mistakes during 2 races is'nt what I count as a bad race. Kimi has had his....

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I agree,I'm one of the people that have underrated Massa. -_-

I think that there are two different points of view:

-No matter how he gets the wins,if he gets them(that is,if he leads from the start and wins,that's perfect)

-I need something else.More "agressive" driving,a couple of brilliant races where he starts from the back,etc.

Of course he can win it,and I won't say he doesn't deserve it,but I would never support someone like Massa.I think that he needs that extra "something" that champions have. Also like someone said,against Kimi he needs Kimi to fail.

Btw,I've noticed that people say that Kimi is a lazy guy,and if he has a bad weekend it's because he's lazy and he can't bother.I don't agree.

If Hamilton has a bad weekend,he's an overambitious prat.If Alonso has it,he's pushing above what he can do and throwing his toys out of the pram.If Massa does it,he's not a top driver,and he makes many mistakes.Etc etc.I mean,if any other driver doesn't perform,it's because they're under pressure,but if it's Kimi,people tend to excuse him by saying that he's just too lazy.Just a random rant.

Actually, it depends on whose fans are most vocals at any given time. Lewis fans use to dismiss his mistakes with the "he is just a rookie" card. We Alonso fans blame the car, or Ron Dennis. :P

My aesthetic ranking would be:

1) Alonso (but not now)

2) Lewis (but not now)

3) Kimi

4) Massa

Nowadays, Bob would be on top.

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Actually, it depends on whose fans are most vocals at any given time. Lewis fans use to dismiss his mistakes with the "he is just a rookie" card. We Alonso fans blame the car, or Ron Dennis. :P

My aesthetic ranking would be:

1) Alonso (but not now)

2) Lewis (but not now)

3) Kimi

4) Massa

Nowadays, Bob would be on top.

Sooooo, actually your aesthetic ranking at the moment is:

1) Bob

2) Kimi

3) Massa

:lol:

Anyway, I don't think drivers make mistakes, I think they just create 'discussion/bashing opportunities'.

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Sooooo, actually your aesthetic ranking at the moment is:

1) Bob

2) Kimi

3) Massa

:lol:

Anyway, I don't think drivers make mistakes, I think they just create 'discussion/bashing opportunities'.

:dam:

Anyways, I am not too crazy about Bob, either. Oh, I know...I am insatiable!

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:dam:

Anyways, I am not too crazy about Bob, either. Oh, I know...I am insatiable!

Right, so that would be:

1) Kimi

2) Massa

Hmmmmmm, I'm sorry, what team do you support again??? :lol:

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Convincing you, my friend, is irrelevant. All he needs to do is win when he is on top and maximise points when he is not. For all intents and purposes that is what Kubica is doing at the moment and, but for the pace of development of the BMW, he would stand a good chance of a WDC. Massa has also been the better driver since the opening 2 races of the season so how you maintain that Kimi is the better driver doesn't make sense to me.

Kimi is faster than Massa, of that there is no doubt however, Kimi is also prone to making mistakes and is not faster than Massa on every track. The gap to Kimi is 5 points and 10 points to Lewis, if the lead to kimi increases Ferrari will soon make a call to back one of their drivers for the WDC which could favour the Brazilian as it favoured Kimi in 07.

Depends. Most drivers don't want to simply win. They want to prove how good they are, which is different.

Ofcourse the WDC shows who the best are, maybe the absolute best may not always win but as Eddie Jordan always said, "The best drivers get the best cars."

I highly doubt Ide would be WDC just because he drove for Ferrari. The Meclaren and Ferrari are pretty much Identical in form. really the four drivers there are on a pretty level field

:lol: I think you're actually agreeing with me there, without admitting it. The WDC is very often not the best driver, so it is pointless. Kubica deserves to be ahead of Massa atm.

Mr Murray Walker seems to be spreading these lazy excuses quite a bit.

Don't you dare say that about me, Bradley-my-boy. I have never made an excuse for Kimi in my life. Any mention of his laziness emanating from my general direction will be part of an accusation, not an excuse! :P

Mark my words my friends, and mark it well....from now onwards, it'll be the Kimi Raikkonen show. and no one will be able to stop him. Remember, Massa must have his bad days yet. Making 2 driver mistakes during 2 races is'nt what I count as a bad race. Kimi has had his....

:lol: I said the same thing! The cheeky Brazilian would have spent the whole of the last race eying up Kimi's rear end, if it hadn't been for Kimi's tubing falling off.

My aesthetic ranking would be:

:lol: The aesthetics of F1 should be left to the pit babes! Sports are about competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules.

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Convincing you, my friend, is irrelevant. All he needs to do is win when he is on top and maximise points when he is not. For all intents and purposes that is what Kubica is doing at the moment and, but for the pace of development of the BMW, he would stand a good chance of a WDC. Massa has also been the better driver since the opening 2 races of the season so how you maintain that Kimi is the better driver doesn't make sense to me.

Kimi is faster than Massa, of that there is no doubt however, Kimi is also prone to making mistakes and is not faster than Massa on every track. The gap to Kimi is 5 points and 10 points to Lewis, if the lead to kimi increases Ferrari will soon make a call to back one of their drivers for the WDC which could favour the Brazilian as it favoured Kimi in 07.

Blah! Facts speak. Fact is Kimi beat Massa to a world title last year, I know you may come up with all kinds of reasons and such, but that is fact! There's a reason why Ferrari started to back Kimi last year, and it'll be the same reason as this year, because he's a better bet than Massa. Whether Massa is under-rated or not, Kimi is going to beat him this year, it is truth. No doubt even when Kimi does beat him this year (again) people will still say, 'oh but Massa is better and Raikkonen only beat him because Ferrari started to back Kimi'. Yeah well I wonder why Ferrari backed Schumacher, and Lotus backed Clark over their respective team-mates.

What races did Raikkonen win (this season or the last) that he shouldn't? Not counting team orders and mistakes/problems from the leaders. I can't remember any.

When Raikkonen wins from lights to flag, it's the skills. When Massa does the same, it's always the car.

Bah! If you look back a little more you'll see that Kimi has won races from deep on the grid, whereas Massa has yet to win any! Kimi maybe a boring champ, but at least he's a deserving one. But really this is Massa's era, overtaking is impossible and qualifying form is everything, Massa certainly has that. Yeah I know it's a real dumb thing to say, but if this was the 80's Kimi would be one of the most entertaining drivers on the grid.

As for Raikkonen's form in the last three races, we have a driving error in Monaco which was highly unfortunate, we have Hamilton humping him in Canada, and in France we have a sure win taken away by exhaust problems. In the last two races he had Massa beat, the writing is on ze wall my friendly Massa fans :D Sure the confidence boost for Massa will be nice, what with leading the championship, but confidence alone won't do it. Anyways I settle this argument until Brazil.

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Don't you dare say that about me, Bradley-my-boy. I have never made an excuse for Kimi in my life. Any mention of his laziness emanating from my general direction will be part of an accusation, not an excuse! :P

talk to me come end of race Brazil.... you'll end up with excuses :P

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:lol: I bet! And if I talk with DOF I'll end up with a load of techno mumbo-jumbo; with Andres, a load of PC Spanish; and with Girl Racer, a sweet smell of roses. All of which, mind you, are better than talking to Paul: after talking to our Scouser friend for 5 minutes you're left with nothing.

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:lol: I bet! And if I talk with DOF I'll end up with a load of techno mumbo-jumbo; with Andres, a load of PC Spanish; and with Girl Racer, a sweet smell of roses. All of which, mind you, are better than talking to Paul: after talking to our Scouser friend for 5 minutes you're left with nothing.

:lol::lol:

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:lol: The aesthetics of F1 should be left to the pit babes! Sports are about competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules.

Really? So this is not conceived as a spectacle? They should race behind closed doors, perhaps?

Sportsmen may fit in your definition. For us public, the asethetic pleasure is part of the joy of watching any sport. As such, it is perfectly logic to enjoy a driver over another based on aesthetic standards.

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Sportsmen may fit in your definition. For us public, the asethetic pleasure is part of the joy of watching any sport. As such, it is perfectly logic to enjoy a driver over another based on aesthetic standards.

Oh OK. I thought you were ranking them in terms of sporting prowess in some sense, but re-reading your posts it seems I got confused. I guess your aesthetic rankings are based purely on how much you enjoy watching them race, rather than whether Massa would be a worthy WDC. So my aesthetic rankings could be 1) Nico, 2) Bob and 3) Nando because I love ogling blonde, big-nosed hairy men in overalls? :P

Really? So this is not conceived as a spectacle? They should race behind closed doors, perhaps?

:lol: In some sense, they already do! The WDC is largely settled by the boffins in each team, and they work behind closed doors pretty much.

You're right that sport should be a spectacle. But not just any old spectacle. Part of the definition of a good sport imho is that prizes are awarded based on a "competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules". We don't award points in tennis for aesthetically pleasing shot selection, or nice legs. More's the pity - Ana Ivanovic would still be on our TVs. Anyway my basic point is that the WDC is meaningless until it becomes a proper sport for drivers.

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Oh OK. I thought you were ranking them in terms of sporting prowess in some sense, but re-reading your posts it seems I got confused. I guess your aesthetic rankings are based purely on how much you enjoy watching them race, rather than whether Massa would be a worthy WDC. So my aesthetic rankings could be 1) Nico, 2) Bob and 3) Nando because I love ogling blonde, big-nosed hairy men in overalls? :P

:lol: In some sense, they already do! The WDC is largely settled by the boffins in each team, and they work behind closed doors pretty much.

You're right that sport should be a spectacle. But not just any old spectacle. Part of the definition of a good sport imho is that prizes are awarded based on a "competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules". We don't award points in tennis for aesthetically pleasing shot selection, or nice legs. More's the pity - Ana Ivanovic would still be on our TVs. Anyway my basic point is that the WDC is meaningless until it becomes a proper sport for drivers.

As usual, I'm not even sure wether we are disagreeing or not :P

Anyways, you ar etalking about what sport means to sportsmen, I am talking what it means to me. They need to stick to the rules. I just want to enjoy watching them compete sticking to the rules.

Tennis does not award points for beautiful passing shots. But I enjoy watching them. As simple as that.

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:lol: I bet! And if I talk with DOF I'll end up with a load of techno mumbo-jumbo; with Andres, a load of PC Spanish; and with Girl Racer, a sweet smell of roses. All of which, mind you, are better than talking to Paul: after talking to our Scouser friend for 5 minutes you're left with nothing.

:lol::lol: Bless you! But you forget, I'm scouse too, so you'll have double nothing but I'll leave you with the roses smell! :lol::lol:

I don't rate Massa. At all. Personally, I really dislike the idiotic short tongued fat little prat. But if he is WDC this year, good on him. His overtaking move was absolute awesome, and even I had to applaud him for that.

He does show rare flashes of brilliance, and then ruins it all with "this isth so great thanks you everybody this isth very nice" rubbish.

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