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YHR

Massa Wdc For 2008

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As usual, I'm not even sure wether we are disagreeing or not :P

Anyways, you ar etalking about what sport means to sportsmen, I am talking what it means to me. They need to stick to the rules. I just want to enjoy watching them compete sticking to the rules.

Tennis does not award points for beautiful passing shots. But I enjoy watching them. As simple as that.

:lol: I just misread what you wrote, and used the quote as an excuse for a rant. I can't even remember whether it was in this thread or another one that I was supposed to make the point that the WDC is pointless. I didn't get enough sleep last night, and I seem to have a very short attention span today. How does the rest of the population cope like this? :P

:lol::lol: Bless you! But you forget, I'm scouse too, so you'll have double nothing but I'll leave you with the roses smell! :lol::lol:

Ahhhhhhhh :D Wait. My memory is shockingly poor today.... remind me: was it really roses, or something else, that your farts smelled of? :P

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Depends. Most drivers don't want to simply win. They want to prove how good they are, which is different.

:lol: I think you're actually agreeing with me there, without admitting it. The WDC is very often not the best driver, so it is pointless. Kubica deserves to be ahead of Massa atm.

Don't you dare say that about me, Bradley-my-boy. I have never made an excuse for Kimi in my life. Any mention of his laziness emanating from my general direction will be part of an accusation, not an excuse! :P

:lol: I said the same thing! The cheeky Brazilian would have spent the whole of the last race eying up Kimi's rear end, if it hadn't been for Kimi's tubing falling off.

:lol: The aesthetics of F1 should be left to the pit babes! Sports are about competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules.

It's just racing.

Somehow I don't get these new/current types of fans.

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:lol: I just misread what you wrote, and used the quote as an excuse for a rant. I can't even remember whether it was in this thread or another one that I was supposed to make the point that the WDC is pointless. I didn't get enough sleep last night, and I seem to have a very short attention span today. How does the rest of the population cope like this? :P

What would be the fun of being in a forum if we didn't misread other people posts? If it weren't for misunderstandings, most forums would never have more than a couple of posts :P

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What would be the fun of being in a forum if we didn't misread other people posts? If it weren't for misunderstandings, most forums would never have more than a couple of posts :P

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now now now...Are you really saying that Massa is a loser,Kimi is lazy and Alonso doesn't have a neck??

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:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Now now now...Are you really saying that Massa is a loser,Kimi is lazy and Alonso doesn't have a neck??

What do you have against wombats?

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Convincing you, my friend, is irrelevant. All he needs to do is win when he is on top and maximise points when he is not. For all intents and purposes that is what Kubica is doing at the moment and, but for the pace of development of the BMW, he would stand a good chance of a WDC. Massa has also been the better driver since the opening 2 races of the season so how you maintain that Kimi is the better driver doesn't make sense to me.

Kimi is faster than Massa, of that there is no doubt however, Kimi is also prone to making mistakes and is not faster than Massa on every track. The gap to Kimi is 5 points and 10 points to Lewis, if the lead to kimi increases Ferrari will soon make a call to back one of their drivers for the WDC which could favour the Brazilian as it favoured Kimi in 07.

Agree, all Felipe needs to do is win when he is on pole and finish in the points when Kimi is faster, but he will need more than a 5 point buffer over a driver like Kimi for that little plan to carry him to a WC my friend. We will have to agree to disagree in respect to whom has been the better driver this season.

What races did Raikkonen win (this season or the last) that he shouldn't? Not counting team orders and mistakes/problems from the leaders. I can't remember any.

When Raikkonen wins from lights to flag, it's the skills. When Massa does the same, it's always the car.

I didn't say this season, Kimi has proved on many an occasion to be capable to win when it's against the odds. Felipe has not.

You see the problem with your second comment is that all of Felipe's wins have come from when he has started on the front row so people are more likely to say it was the car that carried Felipe to the win. I did say Felipe is absolutely awesome when out in front you can never take that away from him. Lets see him fight for a win on a couple of occasions.

-I need something else.More "agressive" driving,a couple of brilliant races where he starts from the back,etc.

Same :D

Blah! Facts speak. Fact is Kimi beat Massa to a world title last year, I know you may come up with all kinds of reasons and such, but that is fact! There's a reason why Ferrari started to back Kimi last year, and it'll be the same reason as this year, because he's a better bet than Massa. Whether Massa is under-rated or not, Kimi is going to beat him this year, it is truth. No doubt even when Kimi does beat him this year (again) people will still say, 'oh but Massa is better and Raikkonen only beat him because Ferrari started to back Kimi'. Yeah well I wonder why Ferrari backed Schumacher, and Lotus backed Clark over their respective team-mates.

Bah! If you look back a little more you'll see that Kimi has won races from deep on the grid, whereas Massa has yet to win any! Kimi maybe a boring champ, but at least he's a deserving one. But really this is Massa's era, overtaking is impossible and qualifying form is everything, Massa certainly has that. Yeah I know it's a real dumb thing to say, but if this was the 80's Kimi would be one of the most entertaining drivers on the grid.

As for Raikkonen's form in the last three races, we have a driving error in Monaco which was highly unfortunate, we have Hamilton humping him in Canada, and in France we have a sure win taken away by exhaust problems. In the last two races he had Massa beat, the writing is on ze wall my friendly Massa fans :D Sure the confidence boost for Massa will be nice, what with leading the championship, but confidence alone won't do it. Anyways I settle this argument until Brazil.

Great post :thbup:

I agree with every point.

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I'm willing to stake my reputation on this.

I'm sticking my neck out.

It's on the chopping board.

I'm putting myself in the line of fire.

It could all go pear shaped, but I'm willing to forcast.

Prediction is a fickle beast.

It's dangerous but here goes....

Massa might win, but then he might not.

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Time to wade in with my Oh-pinny-on:

Kimi is looking strongest this season. But the season is far from over, and anyone of the top 4 guys on the list at present can still mathematically win, and like it or not, Massa might win. And if he does, then congrats to him, because he has proven to be the most consistent driver of the season that finished races. I don't go for the idea that the driver that won more races than the next should determine WDC - that just shows they were a flash in the pan. Consistency should be rewarded with a championship. If Massa ends up scoring consistently enough whilst Hamilton and Kimi enjoy there little bum-fights, then good for him.

I'm just hoping the racing picks up over the 2nd-half of the season, because it's as woeful as ever, and frankly I'm getting much more enjoyment out of IRL, and they've only done ovals so far....but Road America (Watkins Glen) this weekend...Dixon going for 4-wins in a row at this track, and I can't wait to see how Justin Wilson and Enrique Bernoldi do too.

Time to wade out...splish splosh splash

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Kimi is looking strongest this season. But the season is far from over, and anyone of the top 4 guys on the list at present can still mathematically win, and like it or not, Massa might win. And if he does, then congrats to him, because he has proven to be the most consistent driver of the season that finished races. I don't go for the idea that the driver that won more races than the next should determine WDC - that just shows they were a flash in the pan. Consistency should be rewarded with a championship. If Massa ends up scoring consistently enough whilst Hamilton and Kimi enjoy there little bum-fights, then good for him.

Agreed! To be honest Kimi, Kovi and Hami have not been driving like champs lately - scrappy, distracted, making mistakes or slow.

Bob and Massa seem to be the more consistent and deserving of a WDC at this stage IMHO.

And whilst you mention IRL - does anyone any way of watching full race coverage on the web without having to resort to paying for the rip off race director service?

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Oh OK. I thought you were ranking them in terms of sporting prowess in some sense, but re-reading your posts it seems I got confused. I guess your aesthetic rankings are based purely on how much you enjoy watching them race, rather than whether Massa would be a worthy WDC. So my aesthetic rankings could be 1) Nico, 2) Bob and 3) Nando because I love ogling blonde, big-nosed hairy men in overalls? :P

:lol: In some sense, they already do! The WDC is largely settled by the boffins in each team, and they work behind closed doors pretty much.

You're right that sport should be a spectacle. But not just any old spectacle. Part of the definition of a good sport imho is that prizes are awarded based on a "competition to out-perform your opponents within a set of agreed rules". We don't award points in tennis for aesthetically pleasing shot selection, or nice legs. More's the pity - Ana Ivanovic would still be on our TVs. Anyway my basic point is that the WDC is meaningless until it becomes a proper sport for drivers.

It is more about the driver this year then it has in the past decade, and Massa is leading the championship. It looks good on him and It pleases me to see him leading the championship. All the hype with Hamiliton and the Iceman, and then there is the steady performance from Massa week after week. He is always quick, and in the hunt.

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:lol: I bet! And if I talk with DOF I'll end up with a load of techno mumbo-jumbo; with Andres, a load of PC Spanish; and with Girl Racer, a sweet smell of roses. All of which, mind you, are better than talking to Paul: after talking to our Scouser friend for 5 minutes you're left with nothing.

Ahhh, Muzza, my poor disillusioned, single-spec-series afficionado. I am a scouser and even I wouldn't steal from the needy :whistling:

Well, actually, I lie, I am not sure there are any true scousers left :eusa_think:

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:lol: I just misread what you wrote, and used the quote as an excuse for a rant. I can't even remember whether it was in this thread or another one that I was supposed to make the point that the WDC is pointless. I didn't get enough sleep last night, and I seem to have a very short attention span today. How does the rest of the population cope like this? :P

Oh that's easy. Just stop being a big pussy and get over it! :lol:

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:lol: Yeah I was a bit slack, sloppy and slow to get going yesterday.

It is more about the driver this year then it has in the past decade, and Massa is leading the championship. It looks good on him and It pleases me to see him leading the championship. All the hype with Hamiliton and the Iceman, and then there is the steady performance from Massa week after week. He is always quick, and in the hunt.

:lol: Oh Massa is for sure the best driver we have seen in a long time. He would easily have beaten Kimi even without Kimi's problem in France - a great driver bides his time until his opponent least expects the attack. It's novices like Kimi who lead all race long, and lightweights like Bob who compete with Ferrari in a BMW.

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In 6 races, Felipe won 80% of the points, and that with Ferrari mistakes in Canada and Monaco. This year he showed great skills in the rain, is the best driver in qualifications and is the driver that made more overtakings in the season...but i agree thst

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It is more about the driver this year then it has in the past decade, and Massa is leading the championship. It looks good on him and It pleases me to see him leading the championship. All the hype with Hamiliton and the Iceman, and then there is the steady performance from Massa week after week. He is always quick, and in the hunt.

Can you point me towards some hype about Kimi? I haven't read any since.... oh! His championship win.

Murray - :lol::lol: - They smell like.... hang on. Let me bottle some and send you it. :lol::lol:

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Can you point me towards some hype about Kimi? I haven't read any since.... oh! His championship win.

Murray - :lol::lol: - They smell like.... hang on. Let me bottle some and send you it. :lol::lol:

Well you know Kimi is the best, because you know he is the best. He's the Iceman. The quickest in the field, you know all that stuff. Meanwhile Massa is leading the championship with the same car, and somehow Massa is just s##t because you know, he is just Massa.

Racing is all about now. It doesn't matter about last year or the year before. All that matters is the here an now. I said it last year about Hamiliton as well. You don't screw up and throw a championship away. You may never get a better chance, so make every chance count.

No driver aids this year either, Imagine that, Massa leading the championship. Some however want to look at the past, and fail to recognize what a good driver Massa has become. He always qualifies well, and he has done some pretty impressive driving this year. I hope he wins it all.

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Well you know Kimi is the best, because you know he is the best. He's the Iceman. The quickest in the field, you know all that stuff. Meanwhile Massa is leading the championship with the same car, and somehow Massa is just s##t because you know, he is just Massa.

Racing is all about now. It doesn't matter about last year or the year before. All that matters is the here an now. I said it last year about Hamiliton as well. You don't screw up and throw a championship away. You may never get a better chance, so make every chance count.

No driver aids this year either, Imagine that, Massa leading the championship. Some however want to look at the past, and fail to recognize what a good driver Massa has become. He always qualifies well, and he has done some pretty impressive driving this year. I hope he wins it all.

Point for Massa: he really has overcome his problems with the lack of TC. I thought he would never recover.

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Brundle and I agree. Massa will earn the WDC in one of the closes contests to date. He is not full of himself, learns from his mistakes and has matured into one of the best. At 27 he has a lot of good years ahead of him.

Go Massa!!!!

I remember that both ITV commentators were asked (at AUS GP)about that Massa has a good chance that he could be WDC 2008 and they both said na, KIMI.

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Well I agree with myself, Massa won't win the WDC this year, and will never win it while he has Kimi as his team-mate, as Kimi will always lift his form and beat Massa when he wants to.

I agree with you as well. Some people are just naturally talented - Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen.

Massa is not one of those people. He has to work extra hard to get where he is......

^_^

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But - on that note Fwon, he does work hard to get where he is. Have to lay down, no more Massa compliments from me today. :lol:

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It's just racing.

Somehow I don't get these new/current types of fans.

I knew it! You're terminator!

"I now know why you cry"

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I agree with you as well. Some people are just naturally talented - Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen.

Massa is not one of those people. He has to work extra hard to get where he is......

^_^

Not really :D He got into Ferrari because of links with Jean Todt (iirc), it turned out to be a good thing in the end because of his performances, but he didn't have to work 'extra hard' to get where he is. I'd say he worked as hard as most of the others.

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Not really :D He got into Ferrari because of links with Jean Todt (iirc), it turned out to be a good thing in the end because of his performances, but he didn't have to work 'extra hard' to get where he is. I'd say he worked as hard as most of the others.

When I say "to get where he is" I refer to his driving ability. Massa isn't so good on some tracks whereas Hamilton (I'm no Hamilton lover BTW) may never have raced on a track but could still win the race on that track.

As for working hard to get a Ferrari seat - I think he had it easy. Being a test driver for Ferrari for ages, he was probably promised the seat. Plus, Schumacher needed a slower No. 2 driver. If he got in through Todt, then need I say more....

Even with all the tips and tricks Schumacher gave Massa last year, he wasn't even in contention to be WDC 2007. Besides the fact that he asked for tips on how to drive certain tracks suggests that he really ain't that talented.

Hence Massa won't be WDC in 2008. Dare I say that Massa "can never" be WC because the new talents (like Kubica or Vettel) would wipe the floor with Massa.

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When I say "to get where he is" I refer to his driving ability. Massa isn't so good on some tracks whereas Hamilton (I'm no Hamilton lover BTW) may never have raced on a track but could still win the race on that track.

As for working hard to get a Ferrari seat - I think he had it easy. Being a test driver for Ferrari for ages, he was probably promised the seat. Plus, Schumacher needed a slower No. 2 driver. If he got in through Todt, then need I say more....

Even with all the tips and tricks Schumacher gave Massa last year, he wasn't even in contention to be WDC 2007. Besides the fact that he asked for tips on how to drive certain tracks suggests that he really ain't that talented.

Hence Massa won't be WDC in 2008. Dare I say that Massa "can never" be WC because the new talents (like Kubica or Vettel) would wipe the floor with Massa.

I won't say Massa won't be champion, he has matured into a consistent fast driver. He is getting better and better. To beat Kimi on certain tracks where no one can touch him says something. I just don't think he has that edge, that special something a driver like Kimi has, to drive the car to it's ultimate level.

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