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YHR

Massa Wdc For 2008

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Reading this thread made me think and review my usual dislike for Felipinho.

I think like many said here that he still has to show he is something special. This year's Ferraris are on fire, and most other teams/drivers are in the mid of internal crysis. He just has to fight Kimi, and Kimi's lazyness/lack of focus/sheer bad luck (pick whatever you think is right) certainly helped. Like I said, I am yet to see a breathtaking performance from Massa.

On Felipe's defense, though, he is improving. And he is improving fast. And this, in a time when most top drivers are not only not moving forward, but actually moving backwards (Kubi being the only honorable exception)

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When I say "to get where he is" I refer to his driving ability. Massa isn't so good on some tracks whereas Hamilton (I'm no Hamilton lover BTW) may never have raced on a track but could still win the race on that track.

As for working hard to get a Ferrari seat - I think he had it easy. Being a test driver for Ferrari for ages, he was probably promised the seat. Plus, Schumacher needed a slower No. 2 driver. If he got in through Todt, then need I say more....

Even with all the tips and tricks Schumacher gave Massa last year, he wasn't even in contention to be WDC 2007. Besides the fact that he asked for tips on how to drive certain tracks suggests that he really ain't that talented.

Hence Massa won't be WDC in 2008. Dare I say that Massa "can never" be WC because the new talents (like Kubica or Vettel) would wipe the floor with Massa.

:thbup:

I won't say Massa won't be champion, he has matured into a consistent fast driver. He is getting better and better. To beat Kimi on certain tracks where no one can touch him says something. I just don't think he has that edge, that special something a driver like Kimi has, to drive the car to it's ultimate level.

Indeed.

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Point for Massa: he really has overcome his problems with the lack of TC. I thought he would never recover.
After that crash in Sepang, I thought the same!

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Reading this thread made me think and review my usual dislike for Felipinho.

I think like many said here that he still has to show he is something special. This year's Ferraris are on fire, and most other teams/drivers are in the mid of internal crysis. He just has to fight Kimi, and Kimi's lazyness/lack of focus/sheer bad luck (pick whatever you think is right) certainly helped. Like I said, I am yet to see a breathtaking performance from Massa.

On Felipe's defense, though, he is improving. And he is improving fast. And this, in a time when most top drivers are not only not moving forward, but actually moving backwards (Kubi being the only honorable exception)

What exactly do you think it takes to become a world champion. You seem as though you can overlook Kimi's Character flaws and claim him to be "one of the best", and right off Massa as nothing special, even though his work ethic and attitude are second to none.. It takes an all out effort to be World Champion. IF anyone lucked into a World Championshp it was Kimi last year. Had the McClaren team been managed properely they would have had a cake walk last year. Last year it wasn't some much as Ferrari and Kimi winning it, as it was Mclaren losing it.

Massa is fast, and now he is consistant. He will challenge all the way to the end, and it wouldn't surprise me to seem him the WDC.

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When Raikkonen wins from lights to flag, it's the skills. When Massa does the same, it's always the car.

No when Massa wins, everyone says its because its '1 of his favourite tracks', so thats Bahrain, Istanbul, and Interlagos. Maybe Massa will prove us wrong by winning at Silverstone this weekend.

Massa does appear to have improved but if I was a betting man, I'd still put my money on Kimi. Massa is only leading WDC cos of Kimi's problem in France. And if we have a full wet race, I still expect Massa to slide off the road into retirement. I'm still surprised he kept it together at Monaco!

After 18 races, I think Kimi will be champion again, but Massa will be closer than last year, and Lewis a close third

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What exactly do you think it takes to become a world champion. You seem as though you can overlook Kimi's Character flaws and claim him to be "one of the best", and right off Massa as nothing special, even though his work ethic and attitude are second to none.. It takes an all out effort to be World Champion. IF anyone lucked into a World Championshp it was Kimi last year. Had the McClaren team been managed properely they would have had a cake walk last year. Last year it wasn't some much as Ferrari and Kimi winning it, as it was Mclaren losing it.

Massa is fast, and now he is consistant. He will challenge all the way to the end, and it wouldn't surprise me to seem him the WDC.

Ermm...are you sure it was me you were replying to?

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What exactly do you think it takes to become a world champion. You seem as though you can overlook Kimi's Character flaws and claim him to be "one of the best", and right off Massa as nothing special, even though his work ethic and attitude are second to none.. It takes an all out effort to be World Champion. IF anyone lucked into a World Championshp it was Kimi last year. Had the McClaren team been managed properely they would have had a cake walk last year. Last year it wasn't some much as Ferrari and Kimi winning it, as it was Mclaren losing it.

Massa is fast, and now he is consistant. He will challenge all the way to the end, and it wouldn't surprise me to seem him the WDC.

:lol: World champion is about skill, luck and effort. Kimi had a good combo of those last year, his character has sod all to do with it. Do you mean by 'character flaws' (I didn't know you knew him personally?) the amount of effort he puts into his job, and you think he puts less into his job than others? If so then isn't it amazing that Kimi Raikkonen, the laziest and most disinterested driver F1 has ever seen, who doesn't even give a damn about winning races/titles, who is so lazy he doesn't even bother with test sessions because he thinks they're a waste of time, still beat your boy Massa! Just think about how ridiculous that argument becomes, and how if you call Kimi lazy, it also reflects badly on Massa. They are two pretty even drivers.

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Kimi is lazy and Massa is a plodder. How does this debate get to 3 pages...

Oh really, you complaining about over-debating? :P Oh and to answer your question, I've no idea :lol:

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:lol: World champion is about skill, luck and effort. Kimi had a good combo of those last year, his character has sod all to do with it. Do you mean by 'character flaws' (I didn't know you knew him personally?) the amount of effort he puts into his job, and you think he puts less into his job than others? If so then isn't it amazing that Kimi Raikkonen, the laziest and most disinterested driver F1 has ever seen, who doesn't even give a damn about winning races/titles, who is so lazy he doesn't even bother with test sessions because he thinks they're a waste of time, still beat your boy Massa! Just think about how ridiculous that argument becomes, and how if you call Kimi lazy, it also reflects badly on Massa. They are two pretty even drivers.

We are getting into some quote fade here. I quoted someone else making those comments about Kimi. I did say KR may have some character flaws, and I think some of his past drinking exploits can be used as examples of a Character flaw.

In no way do I think KR is not worthy of the title. I also think the way Massa is measuring up to Kimi both last year and this year is indictive of the talent that Massa has.

SO basically, all the things you are critical of in my statement are off base, because I personally said none of those things?

Be kind of like me taking you to task over your statement bolded above. Those are your words not mine!!!!!!

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We are getting into some quote fade here. I quoted someone else making those comments about Kimi. I did say KR may have some character flaws, and I think some of his past drinking exploits can be used as examples of a Character flaw.

In no way do I think KR is not worthy of the title. I also think the way Massa is measuring up to Kimi both last year and this year is indictive of the talent that Massa has.

SO basically, all the things you are critical of in my statement are off base, because I personally said none of those things?

Be kind of like me taking you to task over your statement bolded above. Those are your words not mine!!!!!!

I hear you, but then again, there's nothing factually wrong with my post. I though you hinted that you thought Kimi wasn't worthy of a title, I guess not then. Character has nothing to do with being an F1 champion, Massa maybe a nicer guy than Alonso or whoever, but that doesn't mean he's a better driver. It means very little in F1. I'm not sure a young guy having fun is a character flaw, I guess that's a difference of opinion. Yeah Massa has measured up this year and last, and that does show his talent, on the other side Kimi did beat Massa to a world title last year, so don't take it personally or too strongly when people think Kimi's a better driver.

My bolded statement was sarcasm, because I misread your post :blush: I think Kimi works as hard as most of the other drivers, like you said, it takes an all out effort to become world champion.

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I hear you, but then again, there's nothing factually wrong with my post. I though you hinted that you thought Kimi wasn't worthy of a title, I guess not then. Character has nothing to do with being an F1 champion, Massa maybe a nicer guy than Alonso or whoever, but that doesn't mean he's a better driver. It means very little in F1. I'm not sure a young guy having fun is a character flaw, I guess that's a difference of opinion. Yeah Massa has measured up this year and last, and that does show his talent, on the other side Kimi did beat Massa to a world title last year, so don't take it personally or too strongly when people think Kimi's a better driver.

My bolded statement was sarcasm, because I misread your post :blush: I think Kimi works as hard as most of the other drivers, like you said, it takes an all out effort to become world champion.

Unless it's Kimi, because he's just lazy :whistling:

Actually, I quite like the idea of Kimi 'lazily' deciding to win a title :lol:

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Unless it's Kimi, because he's just lazy :whistling:

Actually, I quite like the idea of Kimi 'lazily' deciding to win a title :lol:

:lol: Yep one day he just woke up and thought 'oh go then'.

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:lol: Yep one day he just woke up and thought 'oh go then'.

Exactly :lol:

Yeah, think I might win the world championship this year, in this red car thingy, if I can be bothered.

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Exactly :lol:

Yeah, think I might win the world championship this year, in this red car thingy, if I can be bothered.

It's no so much he is a fast driver. He just wants to get it over with as soon as possible.

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It's no so much he is a fast driver. He just wants to get it over with as soon as possible.

Sounds like my sex life :eusa_think:

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I hear you, but then again, there's nothing factually wrong with my post. I though you hinted that you thought Kimi wasn't worthy of a title, I guess not then. Character has nothing to do with being an F1 champion, Massa maybe a nicer guy than Alonso or whoever, but that doesn't mean he's a better driver. It means very little in F1. I'm not sure a young guy having fun is a character flaw, I guess that's a difference of opinion. Yeah Massa has measured up this year and last, and that does show his talent, on the other side Kimi did beat Massa to a world title last year, so don't take it personally or too strongly when people think Kimi's a better driver.

My bolded statement was sarcasm, because I misread your post :blush: I think Kimi works as hard as most of the other drivers, like you said, it takes an all out effort to become world champion.

When Massa beats Kimi this year I guess it would be fair to Say Massa is better then KR. As the long gone Senna used to say, the only real comparison you get between drivers are those racing on the same team. Whoever comes out on top has a case to say he is a better driver then his team mate. Some will accept that fact others won't.

Massa is not "my boy". I just think he is doing a really good job and deserves to be where he is.

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Well I agree with myself, Massa won't win the WDC this year, and will never win it while he has Kimi as his team-mate, as Kimi will always lift his form and beat Massa when he wants to.

wise words there from a wise man.

I agree. When Kimi has his heart set, no one can beat him. But lately he just doesn't seem to care.

I was going to say Lewis could actually win this years championship cos he's looked very quick but he's got to stop with the stupid rookie-like mistakes! Also his arrogance doesnt help considering he can barely finish a race without picking up a penalty or hitting someone.

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When Massa beats Kimi this year I guess it would be fair to Say Massa is better then KR. As the long gone Senna used to say, the only real comparison you get between drivers are those racing on the same team. Whoever comes out on top has a case to say he is a better driver then his team mate. Some will accept that fact others won't.

Massa is not "my boy". I just think he is doing a really good job and deserves to be where he is.

If :D Nah but if he does then I'll consider them even, I already think they're pretty even most of the time anyway..

wise words there from a wise man.

I agree. When Kimi has his heart set, no one can beat him. But lately he just doesn't seem to care.

I was going to say Lewis could actually win this years championship cos he's looked very quick but he's got to stop with the stupid rookie-like mistakes! Also his arrogance doesnt help considering he can barely finish a race without picking up a penalty or hitting someone.

Indeed. I hope Lewis starts to focus more to make the championship a little more interesting, and give it some credit too, I want the person who wins it this year to be an outright winner (well, I want Kimi to be an outright winner).

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When Massa beats Kimi this year I guess it would be fair to Say Massa is better then KR. As the long gone Senna used to say, the only real comparison you get between drivers are those racing on the same team. Whoever comes out on top has a case to say he is a better driver then his team mate. Some will accept that fact others won't.

Does that mean Prost is better than Senna, and better than Mansell? And Frentzen was better than Damon Hill?

My wife hates Massa. I think he's OK, but I've never been in favour of him being at Ferrari. This weekend, starting 9th in the wet, he'll end up in the tyre barrier. Hopefully he will prove me wrong though

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Does that mean Prost is better than Senna, and better than Mansell? And Frentzen was better than Damon Hill?

My wife hates Massa. I think he's OK, but I've never been in favour of him being at Ferrari. This weekend, starting 9th in the wet, he'll end up in the tyre barrier. Hopefully he will prove me wrong though

Well Massa was the spin champion today. All I can say is recovered and drove away after everyone of them. :D The guy is masterful :D

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:lol: (It's too cruel to say any more. :P )

There must of been somethng wrong with the engine mapping on that car, or something was still wrong after they rebuilt it. He was losing it in places that were hard to believe.

I think something will come out about this later. Or at least I hope so as I have decided to back Massa for the championship, and I'd hate to hear this was all down to driver input!!!!!!

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