Silverstone - The Race

[Kopite Girl 0]

Looks like barrichello didn't take on as much fuel as he was supposed to when he pitted for wets, would have been second place for him. I was sure there was something into that second pitstop.

There was a problem with the fuel rig.

[Rainmaster 7]

Hamilton was supreme, Barrichello was awesome too and great stuff from Heidfeld finally puts one on Kubi. As for the rest, well, the conditions were shocking...I thought Massa had improved in the wet?? Hammy and Kova were almost out at the first corner, imagine how different it all could've been.

Oh and a special mention to Bruno Senna who also won a very wet GP2 sprint race by a good margin, Ayrton is smiling somewhere.

[Piotr 0]

You are forgetting that it was an awesome race for Kubica, who had to withdraw from Q3 in quali due to the rear end problem. He was on P3 (from the 10th) -when he spun out. VERY uncharacteristic for him, because he usually is great in rain. Later, he said that he was practically waiting for this to happen, as the car had no grip and was losing power (anyone rememeber GP Japan last year? Same problem). Oh well, it was a great chance to actually be back in the lead, and he wasted it. better luck next time.

Great drive from Nick though - so far BMW is doing well, although sometimes they stumble and stagger along...

[maure 1]

Come on, guys. It was fun to watch but the race follows the same blueprint as others this season. I mean, where is the competition?

All you have to do is notice that a Honda (yes, a Honda!!!!!) was on the podium. Once again, it was one of those races when a win was inherited due to lack of real competition. In fact, the top teams and drivers did so poorly that there was even room for a Honda to reach the podium...

Again, it's fun to see the midfield on the podium but, come one, where the fck is the competition?

The sorriest season in years...

[DOF_power 0]

Hamilton had nothing to do with rival teams taking the dumbass decision to leave their drivers on worn intermediates resulting in losing 5 second per lap; witch certainetly doesn't showcase LH as a rainmaster but more of a luck master.

[la force supreme des mclaren 0]

This is the Race Report from Grandprix.com

An Excellent article.......

Lewis shows his class

In the days when Mr Kipling was a celebrated poet, rather than a man who makes cakes, he wrote a poem by which many young men of the age tried to live their lives. It typified the attitude that built the British Empire.

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing their's and blaming it on you," Kipling wrote. "If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too..." and so it went on until it reached the conclusion that if one could do this long list of things, you would in the end become a man.

At Silverstone on Sunday, Lewis Hamilton became not a man, but a superman. He did not need a telephone box in which to change into a Lycra suit, he simply climbed into his McLaren-Mercedes MP4-23 and showed the rest of the F1 field that he is moving into a league which may already have left them all behind. Yes, he has made mistakes this year. Yes, he may need a different kind of management. But is there anyone else in the field who could have driven like that? This was a classic drive, one to compare with the very best in the history of the sport. The conditions were horrible, and constantly changing, but as others stumbled in his wake, Lewis drove brilliantly. There were times when he was going away from the field at a rate that frightened his engineers, but when they called him up to slow him down, he replied that he was fine and was amazed when he was told how fast he was pulling away from everyone else.

"The team were telling me that it was forty seconds, 48 seconds, you're five or eight seconds or whatever it was faster than the guy behind," he said. "And I'm thinking, hold on a second, what's going on? I'm not even pushing. I'm driving to a comfortable pace. I didn't want to slow down because the moment you slow down, you perhaps lose concentration, so I just said 'I'm comfortable at the pace I'm going' and even then I was a silly amount quicker than everyone. So I really had to be very, very sensible. Imagine I was a minute, sixty seconds ahead and I came off, and I didn't win. There would be no way you could come from that. That would be the most embarrassing thing. You would have to retire. I was comfortable with the pace I was doing but I asked the team 'How much slower can I go?' They gave me a margin which I was comfortable with, yet I still did a 1m36s and that was quicker than I'd been in my last stint. But I was comfortable there. The car felt good, I felt comfortable where I was."

"It is by far the best victory I've ever had. It was one of the toughest races I've ever done and as I was driving I was thinking if I win this, this will definitely go down as the best race I've ever won, not only because of its history but it's on my home ground, but also I think I drove one of the best races I ever did. But I was coming to the last lap and I could see the crowd beginning to stand up and I was just praying, praying and praying: keep it on the track, just finish and you could not imagine that we're going inside. I wanted to push, I just wanted to get it round."

Hamilton started the race on unused wet tyres and admitted that with a damp road it was tough.

"It was so extreme out there," he said. "It was probably as extreme in some cases as Fuji last year. Obviously there wasn't as much rain but such tricky conditions: the first sector maybe dry or not so bad, and then in the second sector you could see big drops of rain on your visor. I was having big problems with my visor, I couldn't see a thing, especially the right side was fogging up, so always between turn one and two I would have to put the visor up and clean it on the inside and then put it down, and then I would have to do it again before Stowe. I had to do that nearly every lap, just to be able to see, especially when it started to rain. It was so slippery, it was so tough, it was a real mental challenge. I just focused on making sure I didn't make any mess-ups and mistakes and they were doing such a great job in analysing the weather forecast and making sure that we were on the right path."

"I had a lot of pressure on me," he went on. "I had done a terrible job, really, in qualifying, at least by my standards, but today I just kept saying 'I'm not going out there to' the plan is not to beat myself up and say 'I'm going to go out and win and try and do everything on the first lap' I just wanted to get a point. I would have been happy with eighth today, I would have been happy just getting a point and so with that approach, I just remained relaxed, I remained calm. It was really important that I had three Cs: cool, calm and collected. That's really what helped me keep everything together. It was such a mental challenge out there. You could see the fans, they were getting all excited. The track conditions were changing non-stop."

The race began with a great start which took him from fourth on the grid, past Kimi Raikkonen and Mark Webber and down the inside of the pole man Heikki Kovalainen.

"To be honest, I lifted too early into Turn One," Lewis admitted. "Heikki had the outside line, so he had the grip but unfortunately I was on the inside and I was just sliding, sliding across. There was nothing I could do to avoid him, I think we tapped or we touched. I had another opportunity on the exit of the last corner but that's not a place to overtake really. We were almost side-by-side and I had an oversteer moment and the last thing I wanted to do was take my team-mate out, so I just tried to keep it on the track."

He went ahead of Kovalainen at Becketts on lap 5 and after that he was gone. He had only a couple of moments after that.

"Going into Brooklands, I hit the brake too hard," he said. "I locked up the wheels and I was stuck, I thought I was going straight onto the gravel. That gravel trap is horrible, there is no way you can get through it. But fortunately I kept it together."

The sceond incident was going into Abbey when rain had started to fall, as it did intermittently.

"I couldn't see, I honestly couldn't see, " he said. "There was no way I could even see what line I was on. I had already gone wide through Turns Nine and Ten. I couldn't see the white line, the car was just skidding everywhere but luckily I just kept it cool, I was already forty or fifty seconds ahead, so I didn't have to get out there and start pushing, I just took it easy from then on."

"Today was not a physical challenge," he said. "It was just mental. I don't know how I've done it but I did it and that's the most important thing."

Lewis ended up trying to quote from Martin Luther King, which is not something you're going to hear from Kimi Raikkonen. He made a bit of a mess of it (and admitted as much), but the point was made.

"The ultimate measure of a man," King said, "is not where he stands in moments of comfort and conveniences, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Raikkonen looked a potential threat early on, particularly after Kovalainen spun and dropped behind him. Kimi closed up on Hamilton for a while but the team left Kimi on the same set of intermediate tyres. McLaren gave Hamilton a scrubbed set, and that proved decisive. Kimi dropped away in dramatic fashion and it was not long before Hamilton was more than 20secs ahead of Heidfeld and Kovalainen. Raikkonen had fallen back to fourth and then another stop for tyres on lap 30 dropped him back to 11th.

"There were mistakes made that we cannot afford to repeat," said team boss Stefano Domenicali. "We could have won this race with Kimi but we made a key mistake at the first pit stop. The rain did not ease off and our drivers - Felipe had also gone for the same choice - found themselves in difficulty. Formula 1 is not an exact science: sometimes strategic choices pay off and sometimes they don't. All the same, we have to admit that, this weekend, we did not operate to our usual standard. We made mistakes at every level. Now we have to work out why, but calmly without panicking."

Felipe Massa had an awful weekend and spun no fewer than five times in the race and finished in 13th place.

"This Silverstone weekend is one to be wiped out," he said. "On Friday I had an accident, yesterday there was the problem in qualifying and today a series of mistakes at all levels. After nine races I am still in the lead in the classification and I have every chance to fight for the title all the way to the end. Today, I could hardly keep the car in a straight line and it was always very difficult to drive."

Robert Kubica looked to be on course for a podium finish but made a rare mistake.

"I was already aquaplaning for many laps and unfortunately in a straight line I just lost the car completely and went off," he said. "It was a crazy race in difficult conditions. I couldn't keep the car in a straight line, was losing power, the rear wheels were losing contact with the tarmac, and that was it."

In the end Nick Heidfeld came through. He made a great start and was fourth at the end of the first lap. After the first stops he moved up to second behind Hamilton, after a brilliant move on both Kovalainen and Raikkonen on lap 28. It was a great effort, but (as usual) Nick had to make do with second place.

"Before the stop we were discussing it on the radio," he said. "They said it should only be a short shower but I was going down Hangar Straight and I thought how could that become just a small shower, it was so dark and the rain was getting stronger, so I told them I think we should go on new inters and don't keep these ones on. But I said this is your decision, you have the better overview and then luckily we chose new inters which I think was the most important thing today."

The biggest surprise was the progress made by Rubens Barrichello who decided that he wanted extreme wet tyres and came in on the same lap as team-mate Jenson Button to get them. That meant he had to wait longer than might have been the case, but the risk paid off and Rubens charged up to third to take Honda to its first podium finish for a very long time.

"This is fantastic," he said. "It was the right decision for us to take the extreme wets, and I could pass people inside and outside. It was just magic. I made the decision after I nearly ran out of track at Club and almost hit the wall. Club and Abbey were the most difficult, so I said I was coming in for extreme wets. It was a great call."

Kovalainen had one spin and in the closing laps was able to climb up and pass Fernando Alonso for fifth.

"It was an extremely difficult race with lots of things happening," Heikki said. "It was so easy to get caught out today by aquaplaning and slippery conditions: I spun twice but I was not the only one."

Alonso fought a good race and was rewarded with more points but once again Nelson Piquet threw away a good opportunity for points. He had done well up to that point and one almost felt sorry for him. A similar fate befell Jenson Button.

The last few laps saw a lively fight for the minor points with Kovalainen, Alonso, Kazuki Nakajima and Jarno Trulli all running in close order. In the end Jarno managed to scramble to seventh on the last lap, leaving Nakajima with just one point. This may not seem much but this was a significant event for it was the first time that Kazuki completely dominated Nico Rosberg. The German started from the pit lane and later damaged yet another nose by rear-ending Timo Glock's Toyota. He was ninth by he finish.

Mark Webber had a bad day as well, spinning on the opening lap and losing his qualifying advantage. He charged hard to recover but a light fuel load meant that he was soon back down the order again. He had several spins and ended the day 10th ahead of Sebastien Bourdais, Glock and Massa. All of them had one or more spins. Both Force Indias spun out of the race while Red Bull suffered the indignity of watching Sebastian Vettel and David Coulthard collide on the first lap.

"Massa spun going into Bridge," Vettel said. "That caused a lot of confusion and meant the cars were all running very close. In Priory I got hit on the rear left and it spun me around. I tried to save it, but I got stuck in the gravel. I thought there might have been a chance of being pushed out, but when I got out of the c#ckpit I saw the gravel was much too deep."

Coulthard said he had not been able to see anything.

"I'm sorry for Red Bull," he said. "It was two cars out in one hit."

Hey-ho, as one star fades another rises.

It is ever thus in F1, but the Lewis Hamilton star seems set to rise far higher than those of his generation.

[yurp 0]

Come on, guys. It was fun to watch but the race follows the same blueprint as others this season. I mean, where is the competition?

All you have to do is notice that a Honda (yes, a Honda!!!!!) was on the podium. Once again, it was one of those races when a win was inherited due to lack of real competition. In fact, the top teams and drivers did so poorly that there was even room for a Honda to reach the podium...

Again, it's fun to see the midfield on the podium but, come one, where the fck is the competition?

The sorriest season in years...

Maure - you've posted this opinion on a few threads and several times on this one...

I've defended you before - but fella - there's a reason everyone's ignoring you...

Go to the race results on formula1.com and remind yourself of the placings over the first half of the seasons and the margins by which those races have been won.

Aus and Malaysia - you might have a point - but the first 2 races of the season are always like that. There are always hickups in teams with new cars / drivers.

After that...

Bahrain: Massa +3secs Kimi +5secs Kubi +8secs Heid +27secs Kovi

Spain: Kimi +3secs Massa +4secs Hami +6secs Kubi

Turkey: Massa +4secs Hami + 4secs Kimi +22secs Kubi

Since then there's been Canada - track breaking up

Monaca and Britain - raining

France - 10 place penalty for Hamilton

You can expect those races to have wins by more extreme margins given the conditions - its a no brainer.

That doesn't mean the competition is any less - just that the winning margins will be greater.

Second point - if there's no competition - why are there 3 drivers on 48 points right now and one on 46?

This season is sooooo much closer, better and full of competition than those when we knew Schumi would win from Australia onwards.

Selective memory doesn't make you look smart.

[wunan78 0]

Hamilton had nothing to do with rival teams taking the dumbass decision to leave their drivers on worn intermediates resulting in losing 5 second per lap; witch certainetly doesn't showcase LH as a rainmaster but more of a luck master.

Yes..indeed

[maure 1]

Maure - you've posted this opinion on a few threads and several times on this one...

I've defended you before - but fella - there's a reason everyone's ignoring you...

Go to the race results on formula1.com and remind yourself of the placings over the first half of the seasons and the margins by which those races have been won.

Aus and Malaysia - you might have a point - but the first 2 races of the season are always like that. There are always hickups in teams with new cars / drivers.

After that...

Bahrain: Massa +3secs Kimi +5secs Kubi +8secs Heid +27secs Kovi

Spain: Kimi +3secs Massa +4secs Hami +6secs Kubi

Turkey: Massa +4secs Hami + 4secs Kimi +22secs Kubi

Since then there's been Canada - track breaking up

Monaca and Britain - raining

France - 10 place penalty for Hamilton

You can expect those races to have wins by more extreme margins given the conditions - its a no brainer.

That doesn't mean the competition is any less - just that the winning margins will be greater.

Second point - if there's no competition - why are there 3 drivers on 48 points right now and one on 46?

This season is sooooo much closer, better and full of competition than those when we knew Schumi would win from Australia onwards.

Selective memory doesn't make you look smart.

In other words, 3 races out of 9. That's your competition after close inspection of race results. And in only 2 of the 9 races, the top three scorers have managed to finish within a few seconds of each other.

Now, I don't know who you are or what it is you think you have "defended" me from. But, even though you've made it personal, I will refrain from laughing aloud and, instead, I'll wish you well...

[DOF_power 0]

Competitive championships aren't the same with competitive races witch aren't the same with competitive lead duels.

Wheel to wheel nose to tail racing declined since they banned the ground effects venturi-skirt cars and reduced tire size in 83 and died completely (except wets) with ban of the active ride cars.

Ever since 1994 F1 has more or less on a plateau with 96, 98 and 2005 the lower peak years in terms of overtakings (witch coincided with a loss of grip). The worse however was the drop from 1993 to 1994 with the loss of electronics, reduction of ground-effect (vs. wings) and re-introduction of refueling overtaking and duels went down dramatically and pit-stops defeated on track overtakings for the first time.

[yurp 0]

In other words, 3 races out of 9. That's your competition after close inspection of race results. And in only 2 of the 9 races, the top three scorers have managed to finish within a few seconds of each other.

Now, I don't know who you are or what it is you think you have "defended" me from. But, even though you've made it personal, I will refrain from laughing aloud and, instead, I'll wish you well...

I don't know how disagreeing with you makes it personal - I don't even know you. If it's the selective memory comment then I'm afraid I stand by it - if you look at the races from this season I can't understand how you can say there's been a lack of competition.

I only picked those three races because they where the most representative of competition (or atleast what I deduced you meant by "competition") - but look at the other six. Out of 9 none have been won through lack of competition at all. That was my point - the other races all contained competition to my mind - as I said - the winning margins were greater, but that doesn't negate competition - it's just a result of the circumstance. Before you disagree read on...

Even Silverstone wasn't won through "lack of competition". Hamilton won from a great drive - his start was fantastic and then he drove lap after lap at a great pace in the wet. He overtook 3 cars on the track (none in the pits) and won the race. He didn't win from lack of competition, he won from driving a great race on a nasty track.

Competitive championships aren't the same with competitive races witch aren't the same with competitive lead duels.

Wheel to wheel nose to tail racing declined since they banned the ground effects venturi-skirt cars and reduced tire size in 83 and died completely (except wets) with ban of the active ride cars.

Ever since 1994 F1 has more or less on a plateau with 96, 98 and 2005 the lower peak years in terms of overtakings (witch coincided with a loss of grip). The worse however was the drop from 1993 to 1994 with the loss of electronics, reduction of ground-effect (vs. wings) and re-introduction of refueling overtaking and duels went down dramatically and pit-stops defeated on track overtakings for the first time.

agree - although I've been surprised by the ammount of on the track overtaking this season - there's been more than last year.

I guess this is what I don't understand about maures "lack of competition" opinion:

(Maure - what exactly do you mean by "competition"? please clarify)

My take is that it is one of the following...

1) closely matched cars and teams fighting for the championships (WDC and WCC)

2) on the track overtaking and battles for position

3) close finishes (i.e. battles on track to the very end of the race).

4) mid-field cars challenging for the podium places bringing the whole field closer together.

This season has had all of these things - why is this not a "competitive" season?

My estimate is this - what you mean by "lack of competition" is actually "too many driver errors".

Putting it that way - I would agree - we have seen too many driver errors.

But I have to disagree with your statement that there has been a "lack of competition". That's just not true. There's far more competition than in countless past seasons.

If you would rather see Massa, Hamilton, Kimi and Kubica battling for the top 4 spots every race, then fair enough - I'd be inclined to find that boring though. I guess we want different things in F1 - horses for courses.

EDIT - just happened to read this too - thought I'd add it...

McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton may have recorded a dominant win at the British Grand Prix on Sunday, but behind him drivers from another six teams scored points, emphasising just how competitive the 2008 season has become and how unpredictable the Silverstone race was.

First paragraph from this piece on formula1.com.

Now I know they would say that, but funny that they chose to say it as a result of the exact GP from which you chose to draw the exact oposite opinion. Curious eh.

[maure 1]

I don't know how disagreeing with you makes it personal - I don't even know you. If it's the selective memory comment then I'm afraid I stand by it - if you look at the races from this season I can't understand how you can say there's been a lack of competition.

Ok. Let's go swimming.

I only picked those three races because they where the most representative of competition (or atleast what I deduced you meant by "competition") - but look at the other six. Out of 9 none have been won through lack of competition at all. That was my point - the other races all contained competition to my mind - as I said - the winning margins were greater, but that doesn't negate competition - it's just a result of the circumstance. Before you disagree read on...

Even Silverstone wasn't won through "lack of competition". Hamilton won from a great drive - his start was fantastic and then he drove lap after lap at a great pace in the wet. He overtook 3 cars on the track (none in the pits) and won the race. He didn't win from lack of competition, he won from driving a great race on a nasty track.

You are missing the point. There are two top teams and then BMW in tow. That makes 6 drivers to take the top six spots at every GP. Naturally, not all of them are going to be up there every time. The question then is, what does it take for a midfield driver to sneak in a podium? The math says that at least 4, I did say _four_, of the top drivers need to have "one of those days".

With this in mind, we consider how often it happens that a midfield guy makes it up there and soon we realize that having up to _four_ top drivers picking daisies is far from uncommon (this season). In fact, the top 4 drivers (McLaren and Ferrari) are so irregular that Kubica (who by straight math should be 5th or 6th on any given race) is just two points behind the leaders. Why? His own regularity and the lack of regularity of the current leaders. To make matters worse, let's not forget either that Kubica has retired twice.

The point is that, before this race, the bet was that a single top driver would have a real chance to win because all others would be fighting their own shadows. The point is that, after this race, it was so. The point is that, before next race, odds are that once again most of the 6 drivers on top teams will fail to actually race _for_the_championship_ and instead will be struggling to be in the points... which is how this year's championship seems it's gonna be won. Do you see now where I'm coming from?

Evidently, we play with what we have and what we have is this. DOF says that "Competitive championships aren't the same with competitive races witch aren't the same with competitive lead duels." which is quite so. However, that is different than saying that it is not true that, this season, when a top driver wins it is largely because all others fcked up.

I've said it before. Getting one of the top drives is a luxury. We wait years for our chosen driver to get one of these (I know I have). I, for one, expect more from those that are in top teams. And what I see this season so far adds up to mediocrity... regardless how brilliantly a driver did _one_ race.

[yurp 0]

My estimate is this - what you mean by "lack of competition" is actually "too many driver errors".

Putting it that way - I would agree - we have seen too many driver errors.

Ok. Let's go swimming.

You are missing the point. There are two top teams and then BMW in tow. That makes 6 drivers to take the top six spots at every GP. Naturally, not all of them are going to be up there every time. The question then is, what does it take for a midfield driver to sneak in a podium? The math says that at least 4, I did say _four_, of the top drivers need to have "one of those days".

With this in mind, we consider how often it happens that a midfield guy makes it up there and soon we realize that having up to _four_ top drivers picking daisies is far from uncommon (this season). In fact, the top 4 drivers (McLaren and Ferrari) are so irregular that Kubica (who by straight math should be 5th or 6th on any given race) is just two points behind the leaders. Why? His own regularity and the lack of regularity of the current leaders. To make matters worse, let's not forget either that Kubica has retired twice.

The point is that, before this race, the bet was that a single top driver would have a real chance to win because all others would be fighting their own shadows. The point is that, after this race, it was so. The point is that, before next race, odds are that once again most of the 6 drivers on top teams will fail to actually race _for_the_championship_ and instead will be struggling to be in the points... which is how this year's championship seems it's gonna be won. Do you see now where I'm coming from?

Evidently, we play with what we have and what we have is this. DOF says that "Competitive championships aren't the same with competitive races witch aren't the same with competitive lead duels." which is quite so. However, that is different than saying that it is not true that, this season, when a top driver wins it is largely because all others fcked up.

I've said it before. Getting one of the top drives is a luxury. We wait years for our chosen driver to get one of these (I know I have). I, for one, expect more from those that are in top teams. And what I see this season so far adds up to mediocrity... regardless how brilliantly a driver did _one_ race.

I think we're generally in agreement. What you're talking about throughout your entire post is driver errors NOT lack of competition. What I disagreed with throughout was the comment "were's the competition". I think we're having a very competitive season but I agree that there are too many driver errors.

I think we also see the midfield podium places slightly differently. I see the midfield podiums as indicative of the fact that when a top driver screws up, they get punished for it more so than in previous seasons because the midfield teams aren't that far behind. i.e. when top drivers span at Silverstone they lost places rather than in previous seasons where they would already have been so far ahead that they would have continued in the same position even after spinning. On the other hand you see it as indicative that top drivers are screwing up more. I imagine its six of one half a dozen of the other - there's proof enough for both opinions on this.

Unfortunately I'm unplugging myself from the internet now, so I'll have to leave this one here. Off on a train in about 2 hours.

[Piotr 0]

Ok. Let's go swimming.

You are missing the point. There are two top teams and then BMW in tow. That makes 6 drivers to take the top six spots at every GP. Naturally, not all of them are going to be up there every time. The question then is, what does it take for a midfield driver to sneak in a podium? The math says that at least 4, I did say _four_, of the top drivers need to have "one of those days".

With this in mind, we consider how often it happens that a midfield guy makes it up there and soon we realize that having up to _four_ top drivers picking daisies is far from uncommon (this season). In fact, the top 4 drivers (McLaren and Ferrari) are so irregular that Kubica (who by straight math should be 5th or 6th on any given race) is just two points behind the leaders. Why? His own regularity and the lack of regularity of the current leaders. To make matters worse, let's not forget either that Kubica has retired twice.

The point is that, before this race, the bet was that a single top driver would have a real chance to win because all others would be fighting their own shadows. The point is that, after this race, it was so. The point is that, before next race, odds are that once again most of the 6 drivers on top teams will fail to actually race _for_the_championship_ and instead will be struggling to be in the points... which is how this year's championship seems it's gonna be won. Do you see now where I'm coming from?

Evidently, we play with what we have and what we have is this. DOF says that "Competitive championships aren't the same with competitive races witch aren't the same with competitive lead duels." which is quite so. However, that is different than saying that it is not true that, this season, when a top driver wins it is largely because all others fcked up.

I've said it before. Getting one of the top drives is a luxury. We wait years for our chosen driver to get one of these (I know I have). I, for one, expect more from those that are in top teams. And what I see this season so far adds up to mediocrity... regardless how brilliantly a driver did _one_ race.

I'm confused. Are you saying that having one brilliant driver in a great car performing (read "winning") race after race after race (see Schumacher) with everybody following in a line behind him is more fun than having 3 drivers tied and the fourth 2 points behind by mid-point of the season?

[YHR 0]

I am a little confused by this as well. I think the competiton this year is great. Kimi and Alonso are no less of drivers then they were racing against Schumacher. Now you have an improved Massa, Heidfield and the throw in the young Hamilton, Kubica and Kovalankin, and I think you have a pretty good show. THe fact we have four drivers within a couple of points for the lead, make every race worth watching.

I think Ferrari's and MS's success darn near ruined the sport. Now at least the championship is a contest, and driver input matters again.

[Piotr 0]

I am a little confused by this as well. I think the competiton this year is great. Kimi and Alonso are no less of drivers then they were racing against Schumacher. Now you have an improved Massa, Heidfield and the throw in the young Hamilton, Kubica and Kovalankin, and I think you have a pretty good show. THe fact we have four drivers within a couple of points for the lead, make every race worth watching.

I think Ferrari's and MS's success darn near ruined the sport. Now at least the championship is a contest, and driver input matters again.

Right on! That's exactly IT! And Schumacher (and now Hamilton) are given more credit than they deserve(d). Schumi made a lot mistakes, but team orders and a lot of luck made it up for him. Same with Hamilton. That's not to say they are not great drivers, but reading the British press doing 180 on Hamillton just because he won one wacky race (and at least 50% of that goes to his chief engineer for choosing the exactly the right tactics) is simply just ridiculous. AND I enjoy watching F1 today way better than 3-4 years ago.

[maure 1]

I think we're generally in agreement. What you're talking about throughout your entire post is driver errors NOT lack of competition. What I disagreed with throughout was the comment "were's the competition". I think we're having a very competitive season but I agree that there are too many driver errors.

I think we also see the midfield podium places slightly differently. I see the midfield podiums as indicative of the fact that when a top driver screws up, they get punished for it more so than in previous seasons because the midfield teams aren't that far behind. i.e. when top drivers span at Silverstone they lost places rather than in previous seasons where they would already have been so far ahead that they would have continued in the same position even after spinning. On the other hand you see it as indicative that top drivers are screwing up more. I imagine its six of one half a dozen of the other - there's proof enough for both opinions on this.

Unfortunately I'm unplugging myself from the internet now, so I'll have to leave this one here. Off on a train in about 2 hours.

Driver errors have a bearing on the competition and on the quality of the competition. As I said, having seen what we've seen so far, what random selection of drivers will get a podium next GP? That's not the kind of competition I'd like to see.

I feel that the dismal lack of regularity at the top makes the "competition" less so (if any at all) and, while it is true that _to_some_extent_ the midfield isn't that far away, you still need 4 out of 6 top drivers to fckup for a Honda to snatch a podium. In other words, given a GP where Kimi, Massa, Hamilton, Kova, Kubica, and Heidfeld drove their cars to their true potential, the midfield would stand no chance of better than a 7th.

I'm confused. Are you saying that having one brilliant driver in a great car performing (read "winning") race after race after race (see Schunacher) with everybody following in a line behind him is more fun than having 3 drivers tied and the fourth 2 points behind by mid-point of the season?

A competition where a single top driver is regular is as little a competition as we have now... but less embarrasing. Read my response to Adam a few lines above.

You should be happy, though, that the top 4 drivers are all thumbs. Due to their random performances, Kubica has a real chance of running for the title, an otherwise impossible proposition considering the car he's driving.

[Piotr 0]

Driver errors have a bearing on the competition and on the quality of the competition. As I said, having seen what we've seen so far, what random selection of drivers will get a podium next GP? That's not the kind of competition I'd like to see.

I feel that the dismal lack of regularity at the top makes the "competition" less so (if any at all) and, while it is true that _to_some_extent_ the midfield isn't that far away, you still need 4 out of 6 top drivers to fckup for a Honda to snatch a podium. In other words, given a GP where Kimi, Massa, Hamilton, Kova, Kubica, and Heidfeld drove their cars to their true potential, the midfield would stand no chance of better than a 7th.

A competition where a single top driver is regular is as little a competition as we have now... but less embarrasing. Read my response to Adam a few lines above.

You should be happy, though, that the top 4 drivers are all thumbs. Due to their random performances, Kubica has a real chance of running for the title, an otherwise impossible proposition considering the car he's driving.

Sorry, a "competition" includes performance of drivers over a period of an entire season, which will always include some mistakes (unless you will allow computers to do the racing). On top of that, it's the TEAM that is responsible for the overall performance at any race, not just a driver. Most of the problems at Silverstone was caused by incorrect strategy - and that would make chief engineers, not the drivers, show lack of skills. On top of that, it was also pure luck (Massa made several mistakes and still finished the race, while Kubica's BMW bottomed out on a straight which caused the a##-end to get out of control - hardly a "driver's error." Not to mention and RK showed a rather good piece of driving passing HK moments earlier). So, are we talking mistakes as in "overall race performance" or simply driver's error, which would be rather difficult to pinpoint in the last race? And I still disagree - unless you are a former F1 driver or a strategist (or team principal) I do not believe that you, or anyone else on this forume has a clue if the drivers' skills (or lack of thereof) make this better or worse competition wise. You are entitled to your opinion, but we may as well discuss the merits of BMW- Oracle challenge to Alinghy in the America's Cup the next year (and the judge's decision on timing) - we both have exactly the same amount of knowledge on either subject.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Anyone wanna hear my Dads reaction when I told him about the race ???

[shampion 0]

Anyone wanna hear my Dads reaction when I told him about the race ???

OK!!

I'll bite. Lets hear it.

[YHR 0]

Anyone wanna hear my Dads reaction when I told him about the race ???

I think the picture says it all. Winning a wet race is as much about luck as skill. Many wet weather races have been won by other unlikely drivers, even when Schumacher was racing.

When it rains s##t happens, even to the best.

[mikathegreat2 2]

1st I told him Hamilton won the race then he said the following: f*ck sake I f*cking hate Hamilton & I f*cking hate McLaren & the stupid f*cking British press after slagging him off the past week & now they're gonna call him the f*cking rainmaster or the new Michael Schumacher, I f*cking hate Hamilton & the f*cking team he's with & f*cking Ron Dennis & their stupid f*cking "Britishness", Hamilton's a good driver but I f*cking hate him & aaaargh I'm not even gonna watch the f*cking highlights now cos ITV will be all Lewis Hamilton this & that especially that stupid prick Steve Rider!

Then I told him Massa spun 5 times: Aaaargh Massa the stupid f*cking prick, all he had to do was drive carefully & don't push it too hard just drive smooth like Hamilton did, stupid prick.

His reaction to Barrichello's 2nd place finish: Well done Rubens very well done. Then told him about fuel pressure problem: F*cking Honda. Then I told him Heidfeld finished 2nd & he seemed happy!

[BradSpeedMan 6]

1st I told him Hamilton won the race then he said the following: f*ck sake I f*cking hate Hamilton & I f*cking hate McLaren & the stupid f*cking British press after slagging him off the past week & now they're gonna call him the f*cking rainmaster or the new Michael Schumacher, I f*cking hate Hamilton & the f*cking team he's with & f*cking Ron Dennis & their stupid f*cking "Britishness", Hamilton's a good driver but I f*cking hate him & aaaargh I'm not even gonna watch the f*cking highlights now cos ITV will be all Lewis Hamilton this & that especially that stupid prick Steve Rider!

Then I told him Massa spun 5 times: Aaaargh Massa the stupid f*cking prick, all he had to do was drive carefully & don't push it too hard just drive smooth like Hamilton did, stupid prick.

His reaction to Barrichello's 2nd place finish: Well done Rubens very well done. Then told him about fuel pressure problem: F*cking Honda. Then I told him Heidfeld finished 2nd & he seemed happy!

Whats your age... If I ever meet your dad i'll give him a big slap across the face swearing in front of his own kid like that!

[pabloh20 1]

Whats your age... If I ever meet your dad i'll give him a big slap across the face swearing in front of his own kid like that!

[Jem of the Shire 0]

1st I told him Hamilton won the race then he said the following: f*ck sake I f*cking hate Hamilton & I f*cking hate McLaren & the stupid f*cking British press after slagging him off the past week & now they're gonna call him the f*cking rainmaster or the new Michael Schumacher, I f*cking hate Hamilton & the f*cking team he's with & f*cking Ron Dennis & their stupid f*cking "Britishness", Hamilton's a good driver but I f*cking hate him & aaaargh I'm not even gonna watch the f*cking highlights now cos ITV will be all Lewis Hamilton this & that especially that stupid prick Steve Rider!

Then I told him Massa spun 5 times: Aaaargh Massa the stupid f*cking prick, all he had to do was drive carefully & don't push it too hard just drive smooth like Hamilton did, stupid prick.

His reaction to Barrichello's 2nd place finish: Well done Rubens very well done. Then told him about fuel pressure problem: F*cking Honda. Then I told him Heidfeld finished 2nd & he seemed happy!

woah your dad needs to learn to chill out a bit I think.

And to stop blaming Hamilton & McLaren for the actions of the media