Appalling Driving Standards On Display In 2008 - Contd.

[cavallino 2]

Except that the GP2 race was worse. And that's with ground effect, rear weight distribution and non-peaky/smooth engines.

Can we have some backing evidence for your assertions about F1 engines? Sorry, I don't consider you to be an authority and don't attach much importance to your word.

It's funny how you get so upset and are so eager to prove me wrong, you don't even try to understand my POV.

The problem is the driving standards at the top. The 'top drivers' in F1 have had an incredibly poor season, even if you argue that the bottom of the grid is not that bad compared to other years.

As I have said before, I am comparing the standards to the late 90s - early 2000s. I don't see why the 30s, which neither you, nor I have seen come into it. We all know where to find photographs of the 30s if we want thanks, could you stick to the topic.

[cavallino 2]

Utter bollocks.

The conditions were appalling and I'd like to see you drive better.

Bl**dy armchair critics....

I would like to see your mom drive better.

(I would expect a better argument from you... )

[pabloh20 1]

Can we have some backing evidence for your assertions about F1 engines? Sorry, I don't consider you to be an authority and don't attach much importance to your word.

It's funny how you get so upset and are so eager to prove me wrong, you don't even try to understand my POV.

The problem is the driving standards at the top. The 'top drivers' in F1 have had an incredibly poor season, even if you argue that the bottom of the grid is not that bad compared to other years.

As I have said before, I am comparing the standards to the late 90s - early 2000s. I don't see why the 30s, which neither you, nor I have seen come into it. We all know where to find photographs of the 30s if we want thanks, could you stick to the topic.

Bollocks

Actually, Cav, I think in the late 90s, early 2000s, there were a few drivers good in the wet at any one time and the rest were pretty poor. Whereas now, the majority of the drivers seem to be a bit better in the wet, although a few still stand out.

I think yesterday, the conditions were probably as tricky as most of the wet races I have seen, even more impressive was the drivers keeping it (mostly) together on the inters. Even the best wet weather drivers have made mistakes in less tricky conditions than that.

[HandyNZL 1]

So since Hamilton and Heidi didn't spin, does this make them the uber-drivers of the generation? Hmmmm

[pabloh20 1]

So since Hamilton and Heidi didn't spin, does this make them the uber-drivers of the generation? Hmmmm

No, not at all. You can't judge a reigenmeister on a couple of wet races, it has to be over the course of at least a few seasons, surely?

Though it might be worth looking at Nick's wet weather record, he has been a round for a while now.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

So since Hamilton and Heidi didn't spin, does this make them the uber-drivers of the generation? Hmmmm

for the record, hammie did go off....

[pabloh20 1]

for the record, hammie did go off....

I think all the drivers went off at some point didn't they?? Technically, though, Lewis and Nick didn't 'spin'

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I would like to see your mom drive better.

My mum can't drive, so you win on that one

(I would expect a better argument from you... )

Ah what can I say, I just felt like saying "bollocks"

[Jem of the Shire 0]

I think people should try harder to appreciate how incredibly difficult it must be to control those machines on a wet surface

[DOF_power 0]

It's even more difficult when the cars start aquaplaning and there's no control at all.

[Rainmaster 7]

It's even more difficult when the cars start aquaplaning and there's no control at all.

Exactly, then it's not a question of skill anymore.

[raw 0]

All DNF's but Coulthard&Vettel and Sutil were a result of aquaplaning.

Massa just sucked and so was tyre strategy for most of the teams.

[maure 1]

Can we have some backing evidence for your assertions about F1 engines? Sorry, I don't consider you to be an authority and don't attach much importance to your word.

It's funny how you get so upset and are so eager to prove me wrong, you don't even try to understand my POV.

The problem is the driving standards at the top. The 'top drivers' in F1 have had an incredibly poor season, even if you argue that the bottom of the grid is not that bad compared to other years.

As I have said before, I am comparing the standards to the late 90s - early 2000s. I don't see why the 30s, which neither you, nor I have seen come into it. We all know where to find photographs of the 30s if we want thanks, could you stick to the topic.

Those comparisons are irrelevant.

However, I do agree that this season's top drivers suck. As I posted elsewhere, their performances are very irregular, _very_. I mean, come on, it isn't uncommon to have 4 out of 6 top drivers (Ferrari, BMW, McLaren) completely lost.

How on earth does _that_ add up...

[maure 1]

Exactly, then it's not a question of skill anymore.

That's not exactly true. Depending on the situation, a driver can have none, some, or a lot of control. It's not a black and white thing.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

I think people should try harder to appreciate how incredibly difficult it must be to control those machines on a wet surface

a post with alot of sense...let's all try remembering this b4 who open up threads like this!

[maure 1]

a post with alot of sense...let's all try remembering this b4 who open up threads like this!

Driving an F1 is difficult in general, yes, so?

The point being made regarding the lack of performance from top drivers is that come next GP, what's going to happen? If things continue like this, Williams or Reanult will score a podium and a couple of random guys from the top 3 teams will be their company.

That, my friends, is what this season is adding up to. Does it really make sense to you guys?

[DOF_power 0]

What lack of performance ?!

Massa was the only one guilty.

The rest, did well, aquaplaning and bad tires choice were not their fault.

This was a classical tires race.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

In 1999, almost 10 years ago, the standard wasnt any higher. In the European GP hardly anyone could keep their cars on the track, and Herbert ended up winning it.

And Belgian GP 1998, only 7 drivers finished in the wet.

Go back 10 years, 20 years, in wet races most of the drivers make mistakes. The current generation is as good as any before

[Quiet One 15]

In 1999, almost 10 years ago, the standard wasnt any higher. In the European GP hardly anyone could keep their cars on the track, and Herbert ended up winning it.

And Belgian GP 1998, only 7 drivers finished in the wet.

Go back 10 years, 20 years, in wet races most of the drivers make mistakes. The current generation is as good as any before

Yup.

Plus, how long since we've last seen a first corner pile up (I mean one of those BIG pileups). How long since we've last seen a race with at least one restart due to the said pileup? Geez, they were the usual way to go a few years ago.

Selective memory. We all suffer it at one time or another.

[Jem of the Shire 0]

Yup.

Plus, how long since we've last seen a first corner pile up (I mean one of those BIG pileups). How long since we've last seen a race with at least one restart due to the said pileup? Geez, they were the usual way to go a few years ago.

Selective memory. We all suffer it at one time or another.

Yes and the wheel-to-wheel racing this last few years has been top quality, especially in the first lap like you say.

Go back to the Hill/Schumacher rivalry, the top 2 drivers in the sport could hardly manage to race closely without bashing into each other!

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Yes and the wheel-to-wheel racing this last few years has been top quality, especially in the first lap like you say.

Go back to the Hill/Schumacher rivalry, the top 2 drivers in the sport could hardly manage to race closely without bashing into each other!

I'm glad that others have said this. I don't go with this "drivers are crap this season" notion.

[maure 1]

What lack of performance ?!

Massa was the only one guilty.

The rest, did well, aquaplaning and bad tires choice were not their fault.

This was a classical tires race.

A Honda got a podium. A honda. I repeat, a Honda. Before that, a Toyota. Before that, a Red Bull... when is Force India's turn, one wonders with pure amusement...

Honestly. Looking at the season, can you really say that the top drivers are performing well?

The last couple of races in 2007 were a preview of what we have going on this season. Was it fun? Sure, waiting to see who fcked up and how much. Was it competition? Well...

Do you remember the time when the top guys would fight it out on a pitstop? These days, you would need the guy leading the race to stop for coffee for it to matter...

So, what random collection of drivers (top, middle, and bottom) will fill up the podium next GP... anyone?

[DOF_power 0]

In 1999, almost 10 years ago, the standard wasnt any higher. In the European GP hardly anyone could keep their cars on the track, and Herbert ended up winning it.

And Belgian GP 1998, only 7 drivers finished in the wet.

Go back 10 years, 20 years, in wet races most of the drivers make mistakes. The current generation is as good as any before

Forgot about Monaco 1996 when only Panis, Coulthard and Johnny Herbert finished the race. It was the F1 race with the fewest number of drivers to finish a Grand Prix.

[DOF_power 0]

A Honda got a podium. A honda. I repeat, a Honda. Before that, a Toyota. Before that, a Red Bull... when is Force India's turn, one wonders with pure amusement...

Honestly. Looking at the season, can you really say that the top drivers are performing well?

The last couple of races in 2007 were a preview of what we have going on this season. Was it fun? Sure, waiting to see who fcked up and how much. Was it competition? Well...

Do you remember the time when the top guys would fight it out on a pitstop? These days, you would need the guy leading the race to stop for coffee for it to matter...

So, what random collection of drivers (top, middle, and bottom) will fill up the podium next GP... anyone?

So we have more then top teams taking podiums, so what ?!

It happened before.

[dribbler 6]

That's not exactly true. Depending on the situation, a driver can have none, some, or a lot of control. It's not a black and white thing.

I think we're talking specifically about aquaplaning. In that situation you have no control.

A Honda got a podium. A honda. I repeat, a Honda. Before that, a Toyota. Before that, a Red Bull... when is Force India's turn, one wonders with pure amusement...

Honestly. Looking at the season, can you really say that the top drivers are performing well?

The last couple of races in 2007 were a preview of what we have going on this season. Was it fun? Sure, waiting to see who fcked up and how much. Was it competition? Well...

Do you remember the time when the top guys would fight it out on a pitstop? These days, you would need the guy leading the race to stop for coffee for it to matter...

So, what random collection of drivers (top, middle, and bottom) will fill up the podium next GP... anyone?

Drivers at the top, at the front, push hardest. That's why theyr'e driving for a top team and why they're being paid lots/ slagged off the most/slammed in the papers/moaned about around here the most.

Some drivers at the middle and at the back aren't so racy. They go slower. They are less on the limit. They crash less.

Rule changes have maybe made the cars tricky. Fast drivers in tricky cars are going to crash. Slow drivers in tricky cars aren't going to crash so much.

In depth scientific analysis over.