tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 From f1complete.com McLarens secret is within the steering wheel Monday, 21 July 2008 Wondered why Hamilton could accelerate so fast with such little wheel spin? Why he can start so well? Well the answer lies in McLarens steering wheel. It is believed they almost have a manual traction control system on their wheel. Spotted by the Telegraph as follows: "McLaren's steering wheel features four paddle levers rather than the usual two. The upper two are conventional gear-change paddles, one for upshifting, one for down. The lower two allow different engine torque settings to be chosen. Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue. The rules stipulate that any change in torque settings cannot be triggered by the same driver input as a gear change. Having two separate levers gets around that rule, while still allowing the change of gear and torque setting to take place simultaneously. This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari." Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...1/smpoin121.xml ________________________________________________________ If this is true and is legit, I say good for Mclaren. Innovation, once a characteristic of Formula One is rare these days. Ferrari better do something about it quick! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elgo 1 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 So that was it! The Spanish tv commentators were bullying PDLR to tell them what those mysterious paddle levers were for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Yep, 4 paddles and Hamilton operates them because he is an Octopus http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXZz1uWSSs Can't see him operating them on this lap unless they are operated remotely, by Ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Yep, 4 paddles and Hamilton operates them because he is an Octopus http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXZz1uWSSs Can't see him operating them on this lap unless they are operated remotely, by Ron I didn't see the gear paddles neither!!! Maybe Ron is changing the gears as well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Is the implication that there are 2 torque settings, or am I reading this all wrong? If there were 2 torque settings and 1 paddle selected 1 setting and vice versa, then I think that may be feasible, otherwise I could imagine it would all get complicated ever so quickly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 If this is true and is legit, I say good for Mclaren. Innovation, once a characteristic of Formula One is rare these days. Ferrari better do something about it quick! It could be it but it could be that they know his own ECU better than anyone else. Or it could be that Hamilton is driving better than the others. Or it could be that they have worked harder on the development of the car. Or it could be a little bit of all that together. No, It can't be it. The truth is that Michael Schumacher left F1 in 2006 and Fernando Alonso is driving a wheeled tortoise. That's it. I bet a tortoise has more torque than his R28. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 If there were 2 torque settings and 1 paddle selected 1 setting and vice versa, then I think that may be feasible, otherwise I could imagine it would all get complicated ever so quickly! There is one torque setting for each gear I suppose and as he change gear with the normal paddles he change torque setting just at that same time with the torque setting paddles. If I'm wrong, please don't tell me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Yep, 4 paddles and Hamilton operates them because he is an Octopus http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXZz1uWSSs Can't see him operating them on this lap unless they are operated remotely, by Ron You think is too hard to operate four paddles? I know we are talking about "Wow! That drink button really slows down the car" Hamilton, but still...it's just four paddles, you know? Easier than a gamepad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 It could be it but it could be that they know his own ECU better than anyone else. Or it could be that Hamilton is driving better than the others. Or it could be that they have worked harder on the development of the car. Or it could be a little bit of all that together. No, It can't be it. The truth is that Michael Schumacher left F1 in 2006 and Fernando Alonso is driving a wheeled tortoise. That's it. I bet a tortoise has more torque than his R28. This is something greatly overlooked isn't it? What about that button sequence that would make the engine mapping more aggressive? Maybe it was just a rumor, but it was reported Honda discovered it and asked for explanations. After that the whole thing was forgotten. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Lewis has 6 hands, Kovy has 2 That explains their comparative performances I guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Lewis has 6 hands, Kovy has 2 That explains their comparative performances I guess Nobody said "Lewis" or "Heiki"! It's just you! And how can you reject this info and being ironic? If it's legal, what's the problem? Are you the guy who builds the steering wheels for them ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 This is something greatly overlooked isn't it?What about that button sequence that would make the engine mapping more aggressive? Maybe it was just a rumor, but it was reported Honda discovered it and asked for explanations. After that the whole thing was forgotten. I'll say this slowly for emphasis; Mclaren have a suspended sentence hanging over the team. Any transgression of the rules WILL result in their expulsion from F1 forthwith. Traction control, yes any form of traction control, IS Banned! If Mclaren have developed some sort of TC they are cheating and, if caught, will be expelled. Would they dare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 I'll say this slowly for emphasis;Mclaren have a suspended sentence hanging over the team. Any transgression of the rules WILL result in their expulsion from F1 forthwith. Traction control, yes any form of traction control, IS Banned! If Mclaren have developed some sort of TC they are cheating and, if caught, will be expelled. Would they dare Well the article says it's legal and If Mclaren is using it (which I don't know), they must have thought about it very well! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Traction control, yes any form of traction control, IS Banned! If Mclaren have developed some sort of TC they are cheating and, if caught, will be expelled. I guess it does not have to be Traction Control. It could be something like a different mapping for each gear, but not just the same thing as engine mapping. Maybe some kind of legal program for each gear or a kind of manual TC used when you feel wheelspin. DOF never pops up when you need him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue i.e engine braking - banned! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fed up 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Relevant F.I.A edict; 9.2 Clutch control : 9.2.1 If multiple clutch operating devices are used, they must all have the same mechanical travel characteristics and be mapped identically. 9.2.2 Designs which allow specific points along the travel range of the clutch operating device to be identified by the driver or assist him to hold a position are not permitted. 9.2.3 The minimum and maximum travel positions of the clutch operating device must correspond to the clutch fully engaged normal rest position and fully disengaged (incapable of transmitting any useable torque) positions respectively. 9.2.4 Designs or systems which in addition to typical inherent hydraulic and mechanical properties are designed to, or have the effect of, adjusting or otherwise influencing the amount, or rate, of engagement being demanded by the FIA ECU, are not permitted. 9.3 Traction control No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver. Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Interesting idea but I find it hard to understand how Ferrari could have missed this detail on the McLaren. How long is this supposed to have been used for? And like Fed Up said, only one McLaren is particularly quick atm, whereas presumably they would both have the same system. I don't see that any of those rules would ban this system though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Yep, 4 paddles and Hamilton operates them because he is an Octopus http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXZz1uWSSs Can't see him operating them on this lap unless they are operated remotely, by Ron I really don't care what they do, this is the kind of gadgets I would like to hear about, which teams use to get around the rules. Go Mclaren, BMW, Come on! Bring something innovative! Redbul! Do something Crazy, Ferrari! Cheat guys! Honda! Bring back the fuel tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jean Todt 4 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Lewis has 6 hands, Kovy has 2 That explains their comparative performances I guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tifosi too! 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2008 Nobody said Ferrari or other teams aren't using it, if Mclaren does! You don't think F1 engineers could make a legit device that would do that? You probably don't give them enough credit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted July 22, 2008 Yawn....this is such a big secret.......not. They showed these "secret" paddles on the track TV at the Aussie GP, with a great commentary by one of the Aussie commentary crew whom was holding the wheel in his hand. Such a big secret then, that the TV media had their grubby mits all over it and knew exactly what it was for and how to work it. BMW has a similar paddle system - watch Heidi or Kubi downshifting and upshifting using two fingers in quick succession on any of the in car footage. Come on boys and girls...thought you's lot's waz up on ze plays in ze forms oners?!?!?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DOF_power 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2008 Relevant F.I.A edict;9.2 Clutch control : 9.2.1 If multiple clutch operating devices are used, they must all have the same mechanical travel characteristics and be mapped identically. 9.2.2 Designs which allow specific points along the travel range of the clutch operating device to be identified by the driver or assist him to hold a position are not permitted. 9.2.3 The minimum and maximum travel positions of the clutch operating device must correspond to the clutch fully engaged normal rest position and fully disengaged (incapable of transmitting any useable torque) positions respectively. 9.2.4 Designs or systems which in addition to typical inherent hydraulic and mechanical properties are designed to, or have the effect of, adjusting or otherwise influencing the amount, or rate, of engagement being demanded by the FIA ECU, are not permitted. 9.3 Traction control No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver. Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted. So ?! Flexi wings are banned but McLAren' bridge is still flexing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DOF_power 0 Report post Posted July 22, 2008 So this is how they do it. I love it, it's 94 all over again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted July 22, 2008 Yawn....this is such a big secret.......not. They showed these "secret" paddles on the track TV at the Aussie GP, with a great commentary by one of the Aussie commentary crew whom was holding the wheel in his hand. Such a big secret then, that the TV media had their grubby mits all over it and knew exactly what it was for and how to work it.BMW has a similar paddle system - watch Heidi or Kubi downshifting and upshifting using two fingers in quick succession on any of the in car footage. Come on boys and girls...thought you's lot's waz up on ze plays in ze forms oners?!?!?!?! Well, we've obviously not seen this footage So, come on, stop keeping idiots in suspense, how do they work exactly? Edit: It's ok, Jez, being a much more informative poster than you, explains it better in another thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HandyNZL 1 Report post Posted July 22, 2008 On the start they depress all four paddles = neutral....release one paddle with the pinky = 25% throttle/torque, release second paddle = 50% torque/throttle, release third paddle = 75%, release last paddle = 100%/go go go go as James Allen would say. At least thats how it was explained on the track commentary at Aussie. Obvioulsy the right foot will come into play somewhere between the third and fourth paddles too. Out on track, i.e. racing, it's probably a lot simpler to use....Ferrari has had DIALS in the middle of their wheels for this use over the years, sneaky them.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites