Belgium Gp - Spa-francorchamps

[Max Mosley 2]

True.

[la force supreme des mclaren 0]

McLaren

[raw 0]

Hamilton move on that chicane was pretty wise, but very unsporty and I'm afraid illegal as well. Raikkonen had the racing line and was ahead by about half of the car through first right hander. I don't know why he cut the chicane instead of backing off a bit, cause there was some time left and he obviously had much more grip than ferrari did. If he did in fact back off he wouldn't get a chance of passing as fast as he did, but I bet before the end of secotr 2 he would be in front.

[Rainmaster 7]

At least Spa produced a race today, even if the result makes me feel a little sick..

Nice to see the overtaking at the end of a nice long straight, it's a great track for racing. Raikkonen gives me more pain, Ferrari will support Massa now, and Lewis will win it.

As for Hamilton vs Raikkonen, I think it's called racing. Regardless of the fact that Hamilton didn't actually let Raikkonen back through properly (Lewis is a brilliant racer like this), his racing with Kimi was quite fair, and Kimi went off on his own so it's totally academic anyway.

[YHR 0]

Hamilton move on that chicane was pretty wise, but very unsporty and I'm afraid illegal as well. Raikkonen had the racing line and was ahead by about half of the car through first right hander. I don't know why he cut the chicane instead of backing off a bit, cause there was some time left and he obviously had much more grip than ferrari did. If he did in fact back off he wouldn't get a chance of passing as fast as he did, but I bet before the end of secotr 2 he would be in front.

Absolutely true as well. Hamilton basically used the asphalt run-offs, ignored the chicane, to get up to the back of KR. As I mentioned, if drivers are going to resort to this then bring back the gravel.

There were other events after this that determined the final outcome though, so what does it matter. Hamilton wins, Massa is second, and now will get all the Ferrari attention to win the WDC. I am happier with this outcome then I am if KR would have won. Had KR won then this Ferrari support thing would be still up in the air.

[Piotr 0]

You really do need to try and watch the practice sessions to get an idea what really goes on within the teams. From P1 Kubica seemed to be struggling with the balance of his car. Now, it is not just the team that is responsible for solving such issues, the driver has some involvement - from the snippets of 2 way radio that was played it seems to me that Kubica has a passive role in set-up i.e he makes the complaint and leaves the team to offer and debate solutions. This was certainly the case in the exchanges that were aired on the ITV coverage. This being the case it is the 'team' including Kubica that are responsible for the performance of the car.

It always amazes me how you in particular always blame BMW when Kubica doesn't perform well, but never give them credit when he does. You seem to think that Kubica's performances transcends the car - you are wrong of course.

Define "performance." Kubica is 6th coming into the last stop with vettel behind also stopping and heidfeld over 22 seconds behind both of them. He leaves the pit in 8th. Please, show me where is his performance at fault?

Kubica misses the whole P1 due to an incredible mistake in car set up. Where is he at fault?

The team and Kubica were flawless until Montreal. After that, Kubica (and Heidfeld) began to have silly problems with the car. Kubica can sqeeze every ounce out of a car (and soome that may not even exist if somebody else drives) that is driveable. Please, 'splain to me how a team with a driver in a WDC hunt can COMPLETELY screw up a tire pressure during the entire race, for pete's sake??? input a completely wrong set up? Kubica has shown that he is incredibly consistent - if the car performs. I just have shown you that BMW admitted (on separate occasions) that they made all kinds of mistakes, the last one being the refueling gaff (if that stop went well, it would have been Kubica on podium).

If I am pro-kubica biased, you are definitely 10 times more anti-Kubica, so let's not talk about bias, Mr. Hamilton-is-God .

[YHR 0]

At least Spa produced a race today, even if the result makes me feel a little sick..

Nice to see the overtaking at the end of a nice long straight, it's a great track for racing. Raikkonen gives me more pain, Ferrari will support Massa now, and Lewis will win it.

As for Hamilton vs Raikkonen, I think it's called racing. Regardless of the fact that Hamilton didn't actually let Raikkonen back through properly (Lewis is a brilliant racer like this), his racing with Kimi was quite fair, and Kimi went off on his own so it's totally academic anyway.

Yes it is a great track and we actually got to see some passing. As you can tell I am no longer a fan of asphalt run-offs. They make it too easy for the driver to screw up and not only recover, but possibly gain as well.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Indeed, Kubica has been hampered by BMW's decision to concentrate on 2009.

[raw 0]

Yup and they will look pretty stupid if it doesn't work out.

[Max Mosley 2]

The team and Kubica were flawless until Montreal. After that, Kubica (and Heidfeld) began to have silly problems with the car. Kubica can sqeeze every ounce out of a car (and soome that may not even exist if somebody else drives) that is driveable. Please, 'splain to me how a team with a driver in a WDC hunt

?! Kubica was never in the title hunt. And he should be grateful that he's driving for a good team.

[Kopite Girl 0]

If Kimi did it to him, Hamilton would s##t his pants, and go running to the FIA. His fans following.

yeah mate, we all show who is the WORLD CHAMPION....spunning like a sissy, believe it or not.

2nd to massa please...2nd to massa

Ok - mate. Kimi may have spun like a sissy, but Hamilton had to win like a cheat.

No use bringing Schumi into this either, that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

[raw 0]

?! Kubica was never in the title hunt. And he should be grateful that he's driving for a good team.

Despite BMW's being slightly off the pace of Ferrari & McLaren - if being first in the standings or few points adrift from the leader more than half way through the season isn't being in the title hunt, then what is?

btw. "spun like a sissy" - sissies don't spin, they don't have guts to go fast enough to spin

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Agreed.

It is not BMW's fault that they were consistent prior to that date and the leading two weren

[Quiet One 15]

Yup, Kubica was one of the best guys out there. But Heidfeld and his crew pulled that magnificent strategy at the end and it paid off. Kudos for their quick thinking.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Yup...that's good old Ron speaking crap and sucking at it.

Free piece of advice to Ron: sometimes shutting the fukc up is the best option!

He doesn't know when to. He has good ol' Whitmarsh's hand stuck up his arse, moving him like a puppet.

[Quiet One 15]

As for Hamilton vs Raikkonen, I think it's called racing. Regardless of the fact that Hamilton didn't actually let Raikkonen back through properly (Lewis is a brilliant racer like this), his racing with Kimi was quite fair, and Kimi went off on his own so it's totally academic anyway.

I wouldn't call it racing. It was sloppy. It was dangerous but not in a gutsy way. It was childish. And at least I (and some others) think it was not legal.

It is not entirely academical either, for a 25 secs penalty might demote Lewis to 3rd. Not to mention the possibility of a grid penalty at Monza. Personally, I think it should not call even for a time oir grid penalty but a disqualification of BOTH Kimi and Lewis. They both were trying to ram each other (and whoever stood in the way) more than actually racing each other. As fun as it is to watch, and it was, it is still reckless and stupid. Compare Heidfeld's move for some ballsy, risky but not stupid fight.

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Unsure if this is significant or not but the word provisional has been removed from the official F1 results.

[goferrarigo 0]

I wouldn't call it racing. It was sloppy. It was dangerous but not in a gutsy way. It was childish. And at least I (and some others) think it was not legal.

It is not entirely academical either, for a 25 secs penalty might demote Lewis to 3rd. Not to mention the possibility of a grid penalty at Monza. Personally, I think it should not call even for a time oir grid penalty but a disqualification of BOTH Kimi and Lewis. They both were trying to ram each other (and whoever stood in the way) more than actually racing each other. As fun as it is to watch, and it was, it is still reckless and stupid. Compare Heidfeld's move for some ballsy, risky but not stupid fight.

True. To the most effect. Kimi has admitted he wanted first or nothing in an interview....

[goferrarigo 0]

Unsure if this is significant or not but the word provisional has been removed from the official F1 results.

But even on F1.com news everywhere they write it is being investigated by the stewards... And since this is a big piece of news, surely the update should be typed up...

[YHR 0]

I wouldn't call it racing. It was sloppy. It was dangerous but not in a gutsy way. It was childish. And at least I (and some others) think it was not legal.

It is not entirely academical either, for a 25 secs penalty might demote Lewis to 3rd. Not to mention the possibility of a grid penalty at Monza. Personally, I think it should not call even for a time oir grid penalty but a disqualification of BOTH Kimi and Lewis. They both were trying to ram each other (and whoever stood in the way) more than actually racing each other. As fun as it is to watch, and it was, it is still reckless and stupid. Compare Heidfeld's move for some ballsy, risky but not stupid fight.

Agreed. Not using their heads. All this risk for two points, and KR isn't even challenging Hamilton for the WDC. If those guys would have took each other out, and Massa cruised to victory I would have had a smile ear to ear. Kimi blew his season, and Hamilton almost did over those two points. Not smart, but entertaining.

[Rainmaster 7]

I wouldn't call it racing. It was sloppy. It was dangerous but not in a gutsy way. It was childish. And at least I (and some others) think it was not legal.

It is not entirely academical either, for a 25 secs penalty might demote Lewis to 3rd. Not to mention the possibility of a grid penalty at Monza. Personally, I think it should not call even for a time oir grid penalty but a disqualification of BOTH Kimi and Lewis. They both were trying to ram each other (and whoever stood in the way) more than actually racing each other. As fun as it is to watch, and it was, it is still reckless and stupid. Compare Heidfeld's move for some ballsy, risky but not stupid fight.

Hmm I'd have to watch it again but that's really not how I saw it at the time. Yes it was sloppy but they were on slicks on a very damp track, it was always going to be sloppy. Add to that the fact that Kimi wanted this win more than any, and the fact the Ferrari doesn't like the wet, and the fact that Lewis is still a little over confident imo, and you get sloppy racing. Still a very good spectacle though. Maybe Lewis deserves a penalty, but I feel he deserved the win because he was pushing it, I certainly wouldn't penalise Kimi (what did he do that was so bad, ram the wall?). I'm not really sure it was wreckless and stupid, I can't really make that judgement, the conditions were very difficult. It's a fine line.

At worst I'd give Lewis a 5 place grid penalty at Monza.

[Max Mosley 2]

Despite BMW's being slightly off the pace of Ferrari & McLaren - if being first in the standings or few points adrift from the leader more than half way through the season isn't being in the title hunt, then what is?

Yeah but I think he was just lucky to be there. It was never going to last, and I doubt Kubica himself will be surprised not to be in the hunt any more. He drove very well for the 1st half of the year and I'm sure he'll be closer next year.

On other matters, I'm surprised there's so much whining going on about Kimi and Lewis. I thought it was great stuff. Would that every race were like that.

[Quiet One 15]

Hmm I'd have to watch it again but that's really not how I saw it at the time. Yes it was sloppy but they were on slicks on a very damp track, it was always going to be sloppy. Add to that the fact that Kimi wanted this win more than any, and the fact the Ferrari doesn't like the wet, and the fact that Lewis is still a little over confident imo, and you get sloppy racing. Still a very good spectacle though. Maybe Lewis deserves a penalty, but I feel he deserved the win because he was pushing it, I certainly wouldn't penalise Kimi (what did he do that was so bad, ram the wall?). I'm not really sure it was wreckless and stupid, I can't really make that judgement, the conditions were very difficult. It's a fine line.

At worst I'd give Lewis a 5 place grid penalty at Monza.

Yes, rains equals sloppy (Can we call you "Sloppymaster" from now on? ) but they added more sloppiness to the mix by cutting the chicanes, trying to ram each other off the line, etc. At least that was my impression. I want to watch those last laps again.

[goferrarigo 0]

Yeah but I think he was just lucky to be there. It was never going to last, and I doubt Kubica himself will be surprised not to be in the hunt any more. He drove very well for the 1st half of the year and I'm sure he'll be closer next year.

Kubica was driving well today as well...That screwed up pitstop finsihed any good result...

[The Rumble Strip 0]

Results official.

Massa wins, Hamilton third.