Belgium Gp - Spa-francorchamps

[YHR 0]

Amazing. You accuse Graham of sour grapes when you clearly have a dislike for Lewis. That's hypocrisy. Where are the fans of our sport? Giving an opinion clouded by your like or dislike for a driver is just bollocks.

???? Hamilton and KR drove like rookies in the rain today. I am pretty objective actually. Trust me I never coined the phrase Golden Boy. I have nothing against Lewis and rate him as one of the best drivers to come along in a while. Fact is he landed a seat in one of the best cars on the grid, and really hasn't proven much. After all even FM in a competitive car can win a championship. So excuse me if I don't think Hamilton is super special. Just another JV really. A good driver given an unbelievable chance. Actually I feel sorry for the guy having to be a Briton. The media there expect so much and then cut a guy off at the knees when he fails to meet their expectations. This I have said many times..

FM on the other hand has had to work his way up and hasn't been as lucky as others. I really want the guy to do well because he has earned every chance that he has be given.

My opinions voiced here have nothing to do with my opinion of Lewis Hamilton. He is just the name of a driver of a McLaren car to me.

[AleHop 0]

I wonder how you would have reacted if it was Nando instead of Lewis.

Grgrrr... Alonso didn't win the World Championship last year because of an arguable penalty at Hungaroring.

There is something called slipstream. He let Kimi pass him to a full car distance and used his very slip stream to help him overtake Kimi faster than previous attempts. Simple.

But if he hadn't cut that chicane he wouldn't have been so close behind Raikkonen to use his slipstream.

I don't trust FIA, I think Hamilton took advantage of his action although he didn't break any rule, he broke the spirit of the rules but it is arguable. TBH I wish it hadn't happened because I was confident Kimi would hold 1st for the last 2-3 laps remaining.

[elgo 1]

Hamilton didn't gain an advantage because kimi retired from the race. Ferrari have said they didn't protest so why did the stewards decide to investigate an incident that had no bearing on the race - after the race. If Lewis had beaten Kimi and the result disputed after the race I would understand the logic- So we had a farce of a winners ceremony only for the stewards to reverse the result - only in F1 could this happen

Yup,that's my opinion,too.

Anyway,let's be happy for this helluva race we saw!

[Rainmaster 7]

???? Hamilton and KR drove like rookies in the rain today. I am pretty objective actually. Trust me I never coined the phrase Golden Boy. I have nothing against Lewis and rate him as one of the best drivers to come along in a while. Fact is he landed a seat in one of the best cars on the grid, and really hasn't proven much. After all even FM in a competitive car can win a championship. So excuse me if I don't think Hamilton is super special. Just another JV really. A good driver given an unbelievable chance. Actually I feel sorry for the guy having to be a Briton. The media there expect so much and then cut a guy off at the knees when he fails to meet their expectations. This I have said many times..

FM on the other hand has had to work he way up and hasn't been as lucky as others. I really want the guy to do well becuase he has earned every chance that he has be given.

My opinions voiced here have nothing to do with my opinion of Lewis Hamilton. He is just the name of a driver of a McLaren car to me.

I swear he equalled the performance of a double world champ in his first year, you must think Alonso is a crap driver if this is your assessment of Hamilton.

Massa didn't have it that tough did he? I heard he got into Ferrari because his manager was Jean Todt's son? Okay since then he has proved himself, took him longer than Hamilton though.

[Medilloni 6]

[PS, sorry if I was a bit arrogant before - that wasn't my intention]

No worries GR, I didn't think you were, I should have watched again before posting gobble dee gook, I've been feeling strangely hormonal all day *looks for comfort blanket*.

[YHR 0]

I swear he equalled the performance of a double world champ in his first year, you must think Alonso is a crap driver if this is your assessment of Hamilton.

Massa didn't have it that tough did he? I heard he got into Ferrari because his manager was Jean Todt's son? Okay since then he has proved himself, took him longer than Hamilton though.

Look at Massa's stats since he joined Ferrari and raced against MS in equal equipment. He has nothing to be ashamed about, and deserves to be where he is..

????

Give me a break, Hamilton had proven nothing before he got that seat. Just tell me what did Hamilton do to earn the best seat in Formula one??????

Once given the seat he has performed well. However last year was the biggest choke I have ever witnessed in F1. That is what I remember.

[pabloh20 1]

???? Hamilton and KR drove like rookies in the rain today. I am pretty objective actually. Trust me I never coined the phrase Golden Boy. I have nothing against Lewis and rate him as one of the best drivers to come along in a while. Fact is he landed a seat in one of the best cars on the grid, and really hasn't proven much. After all even FM in a competitive car can win a championship. So excuse me if I don't think Hamilton is super special. Just another JV really. A good driver given an unbelievable chance. Actually I feel sorry for the guy having to be a Briton. The media there expect so much and then cut a guy off at the knees when he fails to meet their expectations. This I have said many times..

FM on the other hand has had to work he way up and hasn't been as lucky as others. I really want the guy to do well becuase he has earned every chance that he has be given.

My opinions voiced here have nothing to do with my opinion of Lewis Hamilton. He is just the name of a driver of a McLaren car to me.

I am not quite sure where that assessment comes from really. Lewis and Kimi had a ding dong battle in the last few laps and I don't care what anyone says, but for the pair of them to avoid Rosberg, I think it was, coming back on track in front of them was anything but rookie driving in those conditions. Kimi by his own admission maybe tried to hard, he wanted the win or nothing, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

I like Massa, but to be honest I thought he was a touch disappointing today. He was 4.4s, I think it was, behind Lewis when the rain started. Lewis and Kimi had a fight, which will have slowed them down and then Lewis and Kimi went off track avoiding Rosberg, especially Lewis as he had to go on the grass. He finished approx 14s behind Lewis 2 laps later. Fair enough, he got it to the finish line, but if he was having to fight for his place then he wouldn't have had the option of going so slow. Personally, I would have liked to have seen him attacking Lewis & Kimi when the rain started, seems as they 'were driving like rookies' he should have easily caught them, no?

[Null 0]

Hamilton didn't gain an advantage because kimi retired from the race.

Gaining an advantage has never been about gaining an overall advantage, it's about gaining an advantage there and then, and lewis clearly did that.

[YHR 0]

I am not quite sure where that assessment comes from really. Lewis and Kimi had a ding dong battle in the last few laps and I don't care what anyone says, but for the pair of them to avoid Rosberg, I think it was, coming back on track in front of them was anything but rookie driving in those conditions. Kimi by his own admission maybe tried to hard, he wanted the win or nothing, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

I like Massa, but to be honest I thought he was a touch disappointing today. He was 4.4s, I think it was, behind Lewis when the rain started. Lewis and Kimi had a fight, which will have slowed them down and then Lewis and Kimi went off track avoiding Rosberg, especially Lewis as he had to go on the grass. He finished approx 14s behind Lewis 2 laps later. Fair enough, he got it to the finish line, but if he was having to fight for his place then he wouldn't have had the option of going so slow. Personally, I would have liked to have seen him attacking Lewis & Kimi when the rain started, seems as they 'were driving like rookies' he should have easily caught them, no?

You should read the thread. THis has been discussed .Massa closed up on those two, and then when KIMI crashed, Massa coasted to second place, as third place was 40 seconds behind him Pretty smart move as it turns out. Why push on wet track wiith dry tires whe you have 8 points in your lap. THose other two clowns should have thought of that.

[Quiet One 15]

Look at Massa's stats since he joined Ferrari and raced against MS in equal equipment. He has nothing to be ashamed about, and deserves to be where he is..

????

Give me a break, Hamilton had proven nothing before he got that seat. Just tell me what did Hamilton do to earn the best seat in Formula one??????

Once given the seat he has performed well. However last year was the biggest choke I have ever witnessed in F1. That is what I remember.

Errr...sorry to intrude, but what did Massa do? He was barely ahead of a decadent JV at Sauber and he got his a## royally whopped by Fisico the year before that. He certainly didn't look impressive at all in his Sauber years.

[goferrarigo 0]

I am not quite sure where that assessment comes from really. Lewis and Kimi had a ding dong battle in the last few laps and I don't care what anyone says, but for the pair of them to avoid Rosberg, I think it was, coming back on track in front of them was anything but rookie driving in those conditions. Kimi by his own admission maybe tried to hard, he wanted the win or nothing, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

I like Massa, but to be honest I thought he was a touch disappointing today. He was 4.4s, I think it was, behind Lewis when the rain started. Lewis and Kimi had a fight, which will have slowed them down and then Lewis and Kimi went off track avoiding Rosberg, especially Lewis as he had to go on the grass. He finished approx 14s behind Lewis 2 laps later. Fair enough, he got it to the finish line, but if he was having to fight for his place then he wouldn't have had the option of going so slow. Personally, I would have liked to have seen him attacking Lewis & Kimi when the rain started, seems as they 'were driving like rookies' he should have easily caught them, no?

In the press conference, he says he thought about doing that, but then he was like no point in risking 8 points for that.... Rather keep your cool and get teh car home....

I think after kimi crashes, behind them Massa appears, but after that he lets quite a few people unlap themselves...

[Rainmaster 7]

Look at Massa's stats since he joined Ferrari and raced against MS in equal equipment. He has nothing to be ashamed about, and deserves to be where he is..

????

Give me a break, Hamilton had proven nothing before he got that seat. Just tell what did Hamilton do to earn the best seat in Formula one??????

No, you said 'Fact is he landed a seat in one of the best cars on the grid, and really hasn't proven much'. Which means he got the best seat in F1, and hasn't proven his worth yet. Trust me I'd understand if you'd said it about Kova, but you can't actually say it about Hamilton, he took on Alonso and survived. He won four races in his first year, he set records. He's doing pretty well this year no matter how you look at it, so you just can't say that about Hamilton, even if he is an annoying little runt most of the time. What you're now saying is something different, you're asking what he did to deserve the top seat in the first place, the answer is: he did everything Mclaren asked him to do, he won all the titles, he beat the competitors on track. That's what he did. I'm not having a dig at Massa here, but you can't say Lewis doesn't deserve a top F1 drive.

[DOF_power 0]

F1 armchair expert:

-I'm gonna youtube some races of the 80es.That was pure racing and overtakings and balls and action and and and I just hope the festival of boredom F1 currently is,was more alike to what it used to be,to what it should be. Oh!Senna,oh!X,oh!Y...those were racing souls and not the pussies of nowadays.

Same F1 armchair expert some hours later,watching spa '08:

-Oh!Ooooh!Oh my!These drivers are crazy,fool and reckless!I hope they disqualify everyone on the grid and send them to a remote island!

LOL so true.

And it's/was Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell.

And don't you forget it.

[goferrarigo 0]

You should read the thread. THis has been discussed .Massa closed up on those two, and then when KIMI crashed, Massa coasted to second place, as third place was 40 seconds behind him Pretty smart move as it turns out. Why push on wet track wiith dry tires whe you have 8 points in your lap. THose other two clowns should have thought of that.

In Hindsight, eveerything seems stupid, But you have to remember at that time both wanted the win and were willing to do anything for it... So you can't blame them... Kimi made a mistake on that turn, had they both finished the race we would be saying it was an amazing battle and on and on about that.

I do like Massa, but those two were having a diferent race than him, He never looked fast enough (maybe due to the turned down engine) to be fast enough to challenge those two for the win. He was catching up before the accident but it would very unlikely Massa would be able to pass both of them...

[elgo 1]

LOL so true.

And it's/was Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell.

And don't you forget it.

Yeah.

[F1 FANatic 1]

man, those last few laps made me think back to 95 when schumi held Hill off for over a lap in the rain when Schumi had on slicks and Hill had on wets.

for those who don't remeber

[Ayrton Senna 1]

It was unfair because Hamilton did not take any advantage of this move to win the race. What about the final two laps that he had to take the car to the finish line??? Did he cut any chicanes or provoked Kimi's spin?? Com'on it's clear that the purpose of this, call it conspiracy or what you like, but to give damage limitations to their bosses.

It was clearly business not personal..I'm aware of that!..;-)

Hamilton didn't gain an advantage because kimi retired from the race. Ferrari have said they didn't protest so why did the stewards decide to investigate an incident that had no bearing on the race - after the race. If Lewis had beaten Kimi and the result disputed after the race I would understand the logic- So we had a farce of a winners ceremony only for the stewards to reverse the result - only in F1 could this happen

How does Kimi retiring take away Hamilton's blame on the incident? The decision wasn't about their individual battle, it was about a move that deserved a drive-through, and this obviously has a bearing on the race. If the stewards had more time to investigate the incident (it happened only 2 laps from the end), they would arrive to the same conclusion. Lewis would have to do a drive through and he would have lost his position anyway.

Move on, people.

[pabloh20 1]

You should read the thread. THis has been discussed .Massa closed up on those two, and then when KIMI crashed, Massa coasted to second place, as third place was 40 seconds behind him Pretty smart move as it turns out. Why push on wet track wiith dry tires whe you have 8 points in your lap. THose other two clowns should have thought of that.

I did read the thread, thanks for asking.

Indeed, why push when you are only 4s behind 2 cars slowing each other down and there is a possibility of increasing your points tally by 2 or 4. That sort of attitude maybe fine if you are a comfortable margin ahead in the championship, but it doesn't seem quite right to me when the guy you are trailing in the wdc is only 4s in front of you.

Like I said earlier, Stirling Moss coined it right - one is either a race driver, or one is not.

[pabloh20 1]

In the press conference, he says he thought about doing that, but then he was like no point in risking 8 points for that.... Rather keep your cool and get teh car home....

I think after kimi crashes, behind them Massa appears, but after that he lets quite a few people unlap themselves...

It just doesn't sit right with me, AJ. But, hey, that's just me!

[YHR 0]

I did read the thread, thanks for asking.

Indeed, why push when you are only 4s behind 2 cars slowing each other down and there is a possibility of increasing your points tally by 2 or 4. That sort of attitude maybe fine if you are a comfortable margin ahead in the championship, but it doesn't seem quite right to me when the guy you are trailing in the wdc is only 4s in front of you.

Like I said earlier, Stirling Moss coined it right - one is either a race driver, or one is not.

Don't forget about the constructors championship. Massa got 8 points for Ferrari.(OOps 10). Ferrari wasted no time in lodging the complaint, perhaps they told Massa to just bring the car home. One thing I will say, he knew what he was doing and mentioned as much as the post conference. Why risk a wreck for an additional 2 points!!!! He seems to know what it is going to take to win this thing.

[pabloh20 1]

Don't forget about the constructors championship. Massa got 8 points for Ferrari.(OOps 10). Ferrari wasted no time in lodging the complaint, perhaps they told Massa to just bring the car home. One thing I will say, he knew what he was doing and mentioned as much as the post conference. Why risk a wreck for an additional 2 points!!!! He seems to know what it is going to take to win this thing.

Well, because in this instance today, the net gain is 4pts and if you are behind it seems like the logical thing to do.

As I said, whatever floats your boat, but it doesn't work for me, sorry.

[YHR 0]

Errr...sorry to intrude, but what did Massa do? He was barely ahead of a decadent JV at Sauber and he got his a## royally whopped by Fisico the year before that. He certainly didn't look impressive at all in his Sauber years.

Who did Again people that was a while ago already. Actually duirng the year he was paired with JV I start analyizing FM. I noticed a maturaity level that surprised me. I also noticed a race craft that if given a chance was going to do him well. He is suprisingly cool, and keeps his head.

I think Ferrari noticed that about him as well. Again since he got a ride with Ferrari he has a pretty impressive track record.

[goferrarigo 0]

Well, because in this instance today, the net gain is 4pts and if you are behind it seems like the logical thing to do.

As I said, whatever floats your boat, but it doesn't work for me, sorry.

When he was 4 points away he was pushing to get closer to the duo, after Kimi's crash he slwed down...

[YHR 0]

Well, because in this instance today, the net gain is 4pts and if you are behind it seems like the logical thing to do.

As I said, whatever floats your boat, but it doesn't work for me, sorry.

The WDC isn't won in one race. It is a season of fast smart driving that wins the WDC. Massa has dominated races on the track this year, and in this case he has won when his car was not as quick as the others. That is the mark of a true champion. Next race, Fresh Engine, Pole positon and he will win leaving the others fighting for second and third. That is my prediction. Then all I will hear is how Massa can only win from pole in perfect conditons, yada yada yada.

[YHR 0]

No, you said 'Fact is he landed a seat in one of the best cars on the grid, and really hasn't proven much'. Which means he got the best seat in F1, and hasn't proven his worth yet. Trust me I'd understand if you'd said it about Kova, but you can't actually say it about Hamilton, he took on Alonso and survived. He won four races in his first year, he set records. He's doing pretty well this year no matter how you look at it, so you just can't say that about Hamilton, even if he is an annoying little runt most of the time. What you're now saying is something different, you're asking what he did to deserve the top seat in the first place, the answer is: he did everything Mclaren asked him to do, he won all the titles, he beat the competitors on track. That's what he did. I'm not having a dig at Massa here, but you can't say Lewis doesn't deserve a top F1 drive.

He didn't deserve a top seat in F1. He was put in a position that he was not ready for. His big choke is proof of that. Is he a great talent. Of course he is and he has done extremely well. However He has been mismanaged by his Father and Ron Dennis, and instead of learning from Alonso they put him in a postion of conflict and he learned nothing. I fear we may never how could he could have been. He maybe just another Jenson Button.