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samfraser

F1 Fans To Boycott Monza

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Well, I am glad we agree that Lewis was much faster than Kimi at that time :-

CHAPTER IV - CODE OF DRIVING CONDUCT ON CIRCUITS

2. Overtaking

a) During a race, a car alone on the track may use the full width of

the said track. However, as soon as it is caught up on a straight

by a car which is either temporarily or constantly faster, the driver

shall give the other vehicle the right of way by pulling over to one

side in order to allow for passing on the other side.

Note that it doesn't say lapped car, by the way. So Kimi should have been penalised :whistling:

As for the onboard footage from Lewis' car, the only thing you could say from that is that it looks as though Lewis was ahead going into the corner, which we know not to be true. It's a wideangle lens, it does not give a true perspective and you cannot see anything else that is happening. For example, if you check out the speedtv footage on youtube, if it's still there, they have a good replay showing both Kimi and Lewis locking up into the corner, so they both had no more to give.

Bollocks!!

The driver is allowed to block once to defend his position. Lewis cut the chicane. Of course it gives a true perspective, its a bloody camera for crying out loud!

Next we'll have people saying that Ferrari edited the footage with photoshop or something! :rolleyes:

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This FIA-loving-Ferrari speculation is getting slightly ridiculous & could ruin F1! Anywhay, to hell with going to Monza just to protest!

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Bollocks!!

The driver is allowed to block once to defend his position. Lewis cut the chicane. Of course it gives a true perspective, its a bloody camera for crying out loud!

Next we'll have people saying that Ferrari edited the footage with photoshop or something! :rolleyes:

Bollocks to your bollocks! It's a chuffin wideangle lens, it makes closer objects appear further away! :lol:

What does the onboard footage prove - that Lewis deliberately drove into the run off area to gain an advantage? The camera doesn't even show him & Kimi locking up and that is quite important in the context of this incident.

And I think you'll find that the rule states quite clearly that Kimi should have moved over :whistling::lol:

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Bollocks to your bollocks! It's a chuffin wideangle lens, it makes closer objects appear further away! :lol:

What does the onboard footage prove - that Lewis deliberately drove into the run off area to gain an advantage? The camera doesn't even show him & Kimi locking up and that is quite important in the context of this incident.

And I think you'll find that the rule states quite clearly that Kimi should have moved over :whistling::lol:

Scouser bollocks on a horse! (I think that settles the question, right?) :lol:

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Bollocks to your bollocks! It's a chuffin wideangle lens, it makes closer objects appear further away! :lol:

What does the onboard footage prove - that Lewis deliberately drove into the run off area to gain an advantage? The camera doesn't even show him & Kimi locking up and that is quite important in the context of this incident.

And I think you'll find that the rule states quite clearly that Kimi should have moved over :whistling::lol:

:lol: :lol:

I was more concerned with the overtaking after cutting the chicane than the action you're discussing, at the time I thought Hamilton had nowhere else to go, I think it's too debatable, and I'm not one to say if Hamilton could've just braked or not.

So I'll jusst agree with whatever George says in the thread xD :P

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:lol::lol:

I was more concerned with the overtaking after cutting the chicane than the action you're discussing, at the time I thought Hamilton had nowhere else to go, I think it's too debatable, and I'm not one to say if Hamilton could've just braked or not.

So I'll jusst agree with whatever George says in the thread xD :P

Yeah me too. Actually, with that, I was just responding to a couple of posts that were suggesting that Lewis could have slowed down more and just followed Kimi, which is why I mentioned the footage showing them locking up. I agree with you, though, I just don't think he had anywhere else to go.

I really can't make up my mind about the overtaking, but I have just posted about that in the other thread :lol:

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Bollocks!!

The driver is allowed to block once to defend his position. Lewis cut the chicane. Of course it gives a true perspective, its a bloody camera for crying out loud!

Next we'll have people saying that Ferrari edited the footage with photoshop or something! :rolleyes:

Did u know what Girl Racer, Ferrari actually edited this footage form a photoshop.

The only other time i remember something similar happening was back at Suzuka in 2005 when Alonso passed Klien and pulled away by 5 seconds only for the Stewards to say let Klien back past or else, so fernando feathered the throttle and when CK passed him Alonso Nailed him back down the inside into turn 1, only for the Stewards to say that they have made a mistake! Remember that 1.

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As I say in t'other post, check out the sppedtv footage that shows both Kimi and Lewis locking up going into the bus stop chicane.

Also, are you saying that because Kimi crashed out he should escape penalty?

No give him a 25 second penalty too. The effect will be negligible though, because he crashed out.

The issue I have with the Hamilton move has nothing to do with passing KR. It has everything to do about staying on the track. If I guy crossed over the pit merge line, it is a penalty. I believe if a driver purposely goes off course and doesn't even try to stay between the lines, something is wrong with that.

Just imagine if drivers started using the asphalt run off areas as race track.. Suddenly all the safe guards are gone and you have cars at speed right up along the wall. Not good. I think the FIA should immediately make a statement about this. Run off areas are run off areas. If you go across the line identifying the race track then you will be handed a 25 second penalty at the end of the race. Then let the teams appeal the penalty and give reason why their driver had to resort to an off track excursion. i.e pushed off, crash avoidance. IF it is valid the then penalty is removed. This allows the guys to race and if proven right then no harm no foul, the race result stands.

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Yeah me too. Actually, with that, I was just responding to a couple of posts that were suggesting that Lewis could have slowed down more and just followed Kimi, which is why I mentioned the footage showing them locking up. I agree with you, though, I just don't think he had anywhere else to go.

I really can't make up my mind about the overtaking, but I have just posted about that in the other thread :lol:

Once he was on the run off area he could have easliy applied the brakes and pulled back on to the track, Instead he gunned it across the run off area and raced to catch KR. That is the problem.

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Ok we can argue until the cows come home about the penalty imposed on Lewis but the point I'm going to make here is what should the rule be to try and make this rule a little more clear cut. Here are a couple of suggestions:

1) The car in question allows the other car to regain the position and is unable to challenge / attempt pass again for a corner.

2) The car in question allows the other car to regain the position and has to drop back a certain distance (1 second)

3) The car in question allows the other car to regain the position and the driver issued a 5 second penalty which can be served at a pitstop or added to the overall time of the driver if no other pit stops are needed.

I'm not saying that I agree with any of the suggestions i've but forward, but just thought that I would try and put forward some suggestions which may make the whole situation a little clearer.

Thoughts????

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I like option 1.

So errr now what do we do? :lol:

Umm good question Jez :lol:

This idea was in fact suggested in another thread, of which I read after my post here in this thread. Just so I avoid taking the credit for the idea :D

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I'm only seeing Hamilton/McLaren fans not agreeing with the penalty imposed.

Kimi fan here that thinks the penalty was unfair.

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Kimi fan here that thinks the penalty was unfair.

yes it is but it is justified :P

why **** the FIA altered old spa -_-

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No give him a 25 second penalty too. The effect will be negligible though, because he crashed out.

The issue I have with the Hamilton move has nothing to do with passing KR. It has everything to do about staying on the track. If I guy crossed over the pit merge line, it is a penalty. I believe if a driver purposely goes off course and doesn't even try to stay between the lines, something is wrong with that.

Just imagine if drivers started using the asphalt run off areas as race track.. Suddenly all the safe guards are gone and you have cars at speed right up along the wall. Not good. I think the FIA should immediately make a statement about this. Run off areas are run off areas. If you go across the line identifying the race track then you will be handed a 25 second penalty at the end of the race. Then let the teams appeal the penalty and give reason why their driver had to resort to an off track excursion. i.e pushed off, crash avoidance. IF it is valid the then penalty is removed. This allows the guys to race and if proven right then no harm no foul, the race result stands.

Once he was on the run off area he could have easliy applied the brakes and pulled back on to the track, Instead he gunned it across the run off area and raced to catch KR. That is the problem.

No, the issue you have is that you believe Lewis did it on purpose. That's fine, if that's your view. However, I don't think there's any evidence that he gunned it across the run off area or even did it deliberately, so we will have to agree to disagree.

Also, saying that Kimi should get a 25s penalty too, but it makes negligible difference, because he crashed, seems a bit absurd. By your interpretation of the rules, anyone who is not going to finish with many points, or no points, would be pretty much able to do what they want because the penalty would not really affect them.

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Scouser bollocks on a horse! (I think that settles the question, right?) :lol:

We scousers never put our bollocks on a horse, we leave that to you desperate Argies! :lol:

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No give him a 25 second penalty too. The effect will be negligible though, because he crashed out.

The issue I have with the Hamilton move has nothing to do with passing KR. It has everything to do about staying on the track. If I guy crossed over the pit merge line, it is a penalty. I believe if a driver purposely goes off course and doesn't even try to stay between the lines, something is wrong with that.

Just imagine if drivers started using the asphalt run off areas as race track.. Suddenly all the safe guards are gone and you have cars at speed right up along the wall. Not good. I think the FIA should immediately make a statement about this. Run off areas are run off areas. If you go across the line identifying the race track then you will be handed a 25 second penalty at the end of the race. Then let the teams appeal the penalty and give reason why their driver had to resort to an off track excursion. i.e pushed off, crash avoidance. IF it is valid the then penalty is removed. This allows the guys to race and if proven right then no harm no foul, the race result stands.

Well thats why they have got rid of gravel traps, so that way a driver can have another chance to rejoin the race, if there was a Gravel trap or a wall there im sure lewis would have tucked into the corner and follow kimi into another lap.

So really Bernie pushed for the gravel traps to be replaced with tarmac, so what shall they do? back track on their word?

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Well thats why they have got rid of gravel traps, so that way a driver can have another chance to rejoin the race, if there was a Gravel trap or a wall there im sure lewis would have tucked into the corner and follow kimi into another lap.

So really Bernie pushed for the gravel traps to be replaced with tarmac, so what shall they do? back track on their word?

+1 agree...and besides the length of that particular corner/chicane is such that the car would skip over any kitty litter anyway and be still able to continue. I don't know the answer to this, but HAS THAT CHICANE EVER IN THE PAST HAD GRAVEL? I would doubt it, but, someone might know.

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Umm good question Jez :lol:

This idea was in fact suggested in another thread, of which I read after my post here in this thread. Just so I avoid taking the credit for the idea :D

Bloody Aussies nicking things again...next you'll be saying pavlova is yours....and crowded house....and phar lap.....and robbie deans :P

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+1 agree...and besides the length of that particular corner/chicane is such that the car would skip over any kitty litter anyway and be still able to continue. I don't know the answer to this, but HAS THAT CHICANE EVER IN THE PAST HAD GRAVEL? I would doubt it, but, someone might know.

I think the bus stop has been redesigned, presumably recently, as there used to be another little chicane before the final chicane. I can't remember there being gravel there, though.

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Jeez what do you people want, one minute it's harder racing with more overtaking and the next it's boo hoo I don't want to play with the big boys. Ham clearly gave the place back so if Kimi wants the lead again he should go and get it. Let them race. It was great to see Ham and Kimi going toe to toe and Kimi lost, on other days he has won. Do we want cautious drivers fearful of dumb stewards or the best giving their all to beat each other.

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I believe you'll find that's the welsh or southern softies :lol:

No, no, no. We don't have enough mountains/cliffs down here in southern-softie land and I think it was you that told me that the best place to shag a sheep was on the edge of a cliff....

...'cos they push back harder :D

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