Alonso- Ferrari Or Bmw?

[Jez 0]

Alonso might stick with renault for 09- source

Fernando Alonso has decided against switching to BMW-Sauber or Honda for the 2009 season, according to the Spanish daily newspaper AS.

The sports newspaper claims the 27-year-old Spaniard believes Renault, his current team, is likely to catch up with and pass BMW due to the sweeping rules changes next year.

Diario AS also said Alonso was reluctant to agree to BMW's contractual terms, where he would be bound to a multiple-year term rather than free - as he currently is - to accept a more competitive seat at the end of a season.

The newspaper said BMW finalised its offer to Alonso earlier this week, but that the former double world champion also turned down Honda's bid, on the grounds that the Japanese team is not likely to be competitive as early as 2009.

"Of course I have to look around at the possibilities for next year that exist outside of Renault," Alonso said in interview with Germany's Sport Bild. "My priority is Renault, but only if we make a big step forwards with the 2009 car."

He confirmed that he has "three or four" options open to him for 2009, and that it is "no secret" that he has been in talks with Honda's team boss Ross Brawn.

[maure 1]

You know, Jez, it has been said by both Alonso and BMW that a decision will not come until the end of the season and that link you gave is, allegedly, a report on a translation from a Spanish newspaper. One cannot but be prudent.

BMW has its 'Alonso' in the shape of Kubica. They can't risk an Alonso and Kubica rivalry in the same vein as Hamilton, Alonso so they need to keep Nick. If that's the case, why the hell have Alonso over Kubica?

All this cageyness by Theissen is surely to stick a rocket up Heidfeld's arse.

Except that you continue to hallucinate that everything Hamilton did and said was done and said by Alonso.

Reality is, naturally, made of very different stuff.

Alonso and Kubica would make the best pair of drivers in the field (as would any pairing of Kimi, Kubica, and Alonso). Theissen, as well as anyone outside of the violent lewisteric minority, knows this. Note that Hamilton is not in that list because even RD does not think Hamilton plays well with others as proven by his continued decisions to give up on the CWC (over and over) in order to keep the best driver in F1 history the undisputed number 1 in the "equality" team. Were such a decision not catastrophic for McLaren and somewhat so for F1, it would be hilarious...

[AleHop 0]

You know, Jez, it has been said by both Alonso and BMW that a decision will not come until the end of the season and that link you gave is, allegedly, a report on a translation from a Spanish newspaper. One cannot but be prudent.

The translation is right. I've read that and it seems Alonso trust Renault more than any other team in the field, at least those he could drive for in 2009. I think BMW will be the team to beat next year very close to Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes but Renault could improve a lot. Well, they can only improve I guess.

[elgo 1]

The translation is right. I've read that and it seems Alonso trust Renault more than any other team in the field, at least those he could drive for in 2009. I think BMW will be the team to beat next year very close to Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes but Renault could improve a lot. Well, they can only improve I guess.

Now,now,don't you remember the Honda fans saying the same last year?

You just gave me shudders.

[Jean Todt 4]

Lets see what Nando has to say after Kubica trashes him. ' Kubica has a longer nose, thus he is able to get to the finish line before me'.

Or my brows are making me heavier ...

Just kidding. If Nando has brains, he would ask Renault to fire Nelson and bring back Fifi.

[Quiet One 15]

Lets see what Nando has to say after Kubica trashes him. ' Kubica has a longer nose, thus he is able to get to the finish line before me'.

Or my brows are making me heavier ...

Just kidding. If Nando has brains, he would ask Renault to fire Nelson and bring back Fifi.

It doesn't matters whether Nando has the brains or not. Flavio has them. He already got a substantial budget increase for next year from Ghosn it seems.

I wouldn't bother with any other driver in the field though. They cannot bring anything useful to Renault, they are expensive and they already are used to work for another team. No, I would bring a cheaper driver from GP2. And they have the one that impressed the most lately (no, not Brunno, nor Pantano) Lucas Di Grassi.

De Grassi will be cheaper than any current F1 driver, can be molded to Renault's liking, would not upset Nando...and probably can't have a worst debut than Piquet's.

I will then use that increased budget to invest where it is really needed: car developement. They don't need to waste it on drivers if they can keep Nando.

[dribbler 6]

Except that you continue to hallucinate that everything Hamilton did and said was done and said by Alonso.

Alonso and Kubica would make the best pair of drivers in the field (as would any pairing of Kimi, Kubica, and Alonso). Theissen, as well as anyone outside of the violent lewisteric minority, knows this. Note that Hamilton is not in that list because even RD does not think Hamilton plays well with others as proven by his continued decisions to give up on the CWC (over and over) in order to keep the best driver in F1 history the undisputed number 1 in the "equality" team. Were such a decision not catastrophic for McLaren and somewhat so for F1, it would be hilarious...

Believe it or not, i am quite open to the notion that Alonso is telling the truth; that he did suffer at McLaren and that Hamilton got preferrential treatment. I am open to it. I just need the proof. I go by my own opinion. I'm not saying that my opinion is correct, it's just that it's my opinion.

Alonso is a great driver. He has saved Renault from being a disgrace this year. They need him more than ever.

But whether you choose to accept it or not, there is a possibilty that Alonso, at BMW, alongside a cool, calm and damned fast Kubica, would feel threatened and over shadowed. Not because he would receive unequal treatment, but because i believe he does not handle being matched or beaten by a team mate particularly well. There a many quotes from various team personnel to substantiate that. Fernando does get grumpy when beaten. It's natural. He's a fast driver. He's ultra competitive. He doesn't like to be beaten. But, be beaten at BMW he might be. That fact would not have escaped Mario's attention and i'm sure he would be thinking about the ramifications.

I asked you this question a while back but you ignored it. I'll ask it again incase you genuinely didn't see it;

When Fernando Alonso was signed to McLaren, Ron Dennis had not made a decision to run with Lewis Hamilton. Do you remember the threads around here, speculating who would drive alongside him? Would it be Lewis, or Gary, or Pedro?

I suspect Ron would have been thrilled. He had got the brilliant Alonso in his team. He would deliver, no question. If the car was going to be half decent, Fernando would surely be in the hunt for a successive third title. In short, Ron would have thought having Alonso on board was absolutely perfect.

Then, he decided to give Hamilton a crack. I'm not under any illusion; Lewis was always going to get a McLaren drive, he earned it by delivering his promises in previous formula, but it WASN'T set in stone for 2007. Why? Because Ron had doubts. Was Lewis ready? But he could take a risk. WHY? Beacuse he had the brilliant double world champion on board. If Lewis stumbled, it wouldn't matter so much because Alonso would be the rock.

Now, here's my question (finally). If you had got the best driver in the world on board why would you give your unproven rookie preferrential treatment? Give me a logical answer that i can understand. Something i can cling to and say "ah, yes, quite right". Don't give me floweriness, or piffle or down right bollocks. Give me substance that i can see a rational successfull team owner applying for sound and rational reasons.

But if you can't, can i suggest you let this f*cking nonsense stop, because it is getting on my tit end.

Thank you.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Believe it or not, i am quite open to the notion that Alonso is telling the truth; that he did suffer at McLaren and that Hamilton got preferrential treatment. I am open to it. I just need the proof. I go by my own opinion. I'm not saying that my opinion is correct, it's just that it's my opinion.

Alonso is a great driver. He has saved Renault from being a disgrace this year. They need him more than ever.

But whether you choose to accept it or not, there is a possibilty that Alonso, at BMW, alongside a cool, calm and damned fast Kubica, would feel threatened and over shadowed. Not because he would receive unequal treatment, but because i believe he does not handle being matched or beaten by a team mate particularly well. There a many quotes from various team personnel to substantiate that. Fernando does get grumpy when beaten. It's natural. He's a fast driver. He's ultra competitive. He doesn't like to be beaten. But, be beaten at BMW he might be. That fact would not have escaped Mario's attention and i'm sure he would be thinking about the ramifications.

I asked you this question a while back but you ignored it. I'll ask it again incase you genuinely didn't see it;

When Fernando Alonso was signed to McLaren, Ron Dennis had not made a decision to run with Lewis Hamilton. Do you remember the threads around here, speculating who would drive alongside him? Would it be Lewis, or Gary, or Pedro?

I suspect Ron would have been thrilled. He had got the brilliant Alonso in his team. He would deliver, no question. If the car was going to be half decent, Fernando would surely be in the hunt for a successive third title. In short, Ron would have thought having Alonso on board was absolutely perfect.

Then, he decided to give Hamilton a crack. I'm not under any illusion; Lewis was always going to get a McLaren drive, he earned it by delivering his promises in previous formula, but it WASN'T set in stone for 2007. Why? Because Ron had doubts. Was Lewis ready? But he could take a risk. WHY? Beacuse he had the brilliant double world champion on board. If Lewis stumbled, it wouldn't matter so much because Alonso would be the rock.

Thats right. I really think Alonso is special. But he needs the team to be his citadel.

Now, here's my question (finally). If you had got the best driver in the world on board why would you give your unproven rookie preferrential treatment? Give me a logical answer that i can understand. Something i can cling to and say "ah, yes, quite right". Don't give me floweriness, or piffle or down right bollocks. Give me substance that i can see a rational successfull team owner applying for sound and rational reasons.

But if you can't, can i suggest you let this f*cking nonsense stop, because it is getting on my tit end.

Thank you.

Dear Mr. Dennis,

I would love to be an F1 driver one day for your team. Thank you for giving me your number, and I will ring you up in 7 years time, and say "I'm here."

Lewis, age 9.

Thats basically the gist of it. He's been in and around McLaren ever since he was a child. His father worked extremely hard to keep him there, and Lewis is repaying McLaren for the loyalty by winning. Of course Ron would give preference to Lewis, why SHOULDN'T he when he knows how much talent he really has?

Drib, I agree with you most of the time - but come on!! This is the same man that asks "What strategy are they on" when facing DC at his own team briefings!

More or less every team principal prefers one over the other. Alonso had it at Renault (and still does) with Briatore. (Remember Jarno Trulli's treatment....) Button has it at Honda, Vettel at STR, Kubica for BMW, and for some reason Massa at Ferrari.

So, I'm sorry - but if Ron really didn't prefer Lewis over Alonso, he would have given Hamilton a test seat, and kept Pedro DLR as his number two.

[AleHop 0]

The story has been thoroughly discussed on this forum and nobody's changed his mind. There's a list of events I remember that make me think that once Ron Dennis believed Hamilton could win the Championship he did everything he could to help Hamilton win because he thought Kimi/Ferrari were out of the game.

When Fernando Alonso was signed to McLaren, Ron Dennis had not made a decision to run with Lewis Hamilton. Do you remember the threads around here, speculating who would drive alongside him? Would it be Lewis, or Gary, or Pedro?

I'm pretty sure I read an interview this season where Ron Dennis said he had made the decission long before they made it public. I suppose he had to talk to Mercedes and the timing was perfect as those threads you mention prove.

[Rainmaster 7]

Alonso and Hammy were two very evenly matched drivers. No doubt Ron wanted Lewis to win more, but I doubt he gave Lewis a better car or better strategies (it wouldn't make sense to pay for a double WDC and then give him worse strategy/equipment than a rookie, even if said rookie was very good). The only time that Lewis was (arguably) given better equipment and/or strategy was later on in the year after Alonso started talking s##t because he felt uncomfortable, which was because Ron liked Lewis more, but still, if Alonso had kept his cool better he could have won last year. Simple as that.

Alonso didn't see Lewis coming.

[Fed up 0]

Alonso and Hammy were two very evenly matched drivers. No doubt Ron wanted Lewis to win more, but I doubt he gave Lewis a better car or better strategies (it wouldn't make sense to pay for a double WDC and then give him worse strategy/equipment than a rookie, even if said rookie was very good). The only time that Lewis was (arguably) given better equipment and/or strategy was later on in the year after Alonso started talking s##t because he felt uncomfortable, which was because Ron liked Lewis more, but still, if Alonso had kept his cool better he could have won last year. Simple as that.

Alonso didn't see Lewis coming.

Spot on here and what Drib writes above.

When Lewis first tested the Michelin shod Mclaren he was very slow and had Mclaren continued with Michelins in 2007 Lewis would not have got the drive.

Alonso had the beating of Lewis if only only he had kept his cool (although I'm convinced neither Mclaren driver would have been allowed to win the WDC anyway)

My guess is that BMW have already made an offer to Nando to partner Bob, but for the reasons outlined by Drib I think Nando may choose to stay put at Renault.

Who knows or cares!

[Rainmaster 7]

I too think Alonso's best option for 2009 is Renault.

Here's an article:

Jonathan Noble: Online Fernando Alonso has a big decision to make in the coming weeks, but to save him any further toil Jonathan Noble has worked out which team he should sign for in 2009

By Jonathan Noble autosport.com's GP editor

You are Fernando Alonso. On Friday afternoon, just moments before second practice got underway at Monza, your dreams for the future took a huge battering.

When your manager whispered in your ear that Ferrari had just extended Kimi Raikkonen's contract for another year, you were not totally surprised. But, it was still enough to leave you disappointed.

Word on the paddock grapevine had told you several months ago that such a deal was going to happen, but still it hurt deep inside that a chance to join F1's most mythical, and most competitive, team had gone.

Later that afternoon, after a miserable time on track, you told the press that your choice of team next year was going to be the gamble of your life. With offers on the table from BMW Sauber and Honda if you choose to leave your friends at Renault, there are three clear options for the future.

Yet, somehow, what you must do is obvious, isn't it?

You realised from that terrible time at McLaren in 2007 that being happy inside a team is just as important as being in a competitive car. You don't want any possibility of a repeat of political troubles off track, so it's important that you settle in with faces you know well, people you can trust and team members who worship everything you do.

You also need a competitive car, and a team who are proven winners. There seems little point in wasting time with an outfit going through the restructuring phase that could take two, three or four years. You want results, and you want results now.

That is why you have to look to the man who is leading the car design process. He has to have a damn good track record, have shown in the past that he is not only good enough for the job of creating a quick racing car, but perhaps the best. And you are not talking about having simply created a car good enough for wins in the past - you want to know he can design a car capable of winning the world championship.

The engine is important too. F1's engine freeze has caused you untold trouble at Renault this year, with the French manufacturer not 'exploiting' the regulations to the same extent that some other teams have. Your current boss is telling you that hopefully the FIA will step in and equalise things up for 2009 - but is there any guarantee? You need to be sure when you put pen to paper on a contract that you are getting hold of one of the very best power-units there is.

Then let's not forget the length of the deal. You are at the stage of your career now where it is important you are not locked in for too long. Not for you the wasting of years creating a future world championship. Winning here and now is important and, if things do go wrong next year when the regulations are thrown up in the air, you want the ability to move ship for 2010. That means driving for a team who will be happy to take that one year gamble with you.

You also want a team that knows its racing. At McLaren, and when you raced against them in Renault, you saw several times the dangers of over-engineering, relying too much on the theoretical best rather than following the racing instinct. Having a small tight-knit team operating as one, with total unity, is vital.

And you also want to feel the number one, even if the team will not give that to you on paper. You don't like it when your teammate beats you - it doesn't fit in with the total belief in yourself that you are the very best out there. You want to be in a position where the team look to you for leadership and where the guy in the other car is happy to have you there - not desperate to prove a point and pull the rug from under your feet.

Money is a factor too. Things are tight at the manufacturer teams, as you well know from Renault, and you need to be sure that the man who signs the cheques has a fair bit of commitment to digging deep in his own pockets. And maybe deeper than he has done in the past just because you are there.

Yes Fernando, it's all coming together isn't it? You've got to take the gamble of your life. You have got to drive for Scuderia Toro Rosso.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Alonso and Hammy were two very evenly matched drivers. No doubt Ron wanted Lewis to win more, but I doubt he gave Lewis a better car or better strategies (it wouldn't make sense to pay for a double WDC and then give him worse strategy/equipment than a rookie, even if said rookie was very good). The only time that Lewis was (arguably) given better equipment and/or strategy was later on in the year after Alonso started talking s##t because he felt uncomfortable, which was because Ron liked Lewis more, but still, if Alonso had kept his cool better he could have won last year. Simple as that.

Alonso didn't see Lewis coming.

But surely thats like saying I like my chips[fries] with salt, but I don't like the salt grains!

I would love to know when Alonso started talking s##t, because to my account - it was Lewis who started spouting off first. The two were very good friends in the first instance, what with all the taking pictures of each other, the advertisements, interviews, etc.

I think that we all over-stretch what went on between the two drivers. We all love a good rivalry. Senna v Prost, Schumi v Hill, Mansell v Piquet, etc. It was a long time since we had that, and the media made a bloody great big circus out of it.

I don't think it was a case of Alonso didn't see Lewis coming. I think it was a case of they both didn't see what was coming...

[Rainmaster 7]

But surely thats like saying I like my chips[fries] with salt, but I don't like the salt grains!

I would love to know when Alonso started talking s##t, because to my account - it was Lewis who started spouting off first. The two were very good friends in the first instance, what with all the taking pictures of each other, the advertisements, interviews, etc.

I think that we all over-stretch what went on between the two drivers. We all love a good rivalry. Senna v Prost, Schumi v Hill, Mansell v Piquet, etc. It was a long time since we had that, and the media made a bloody great big circus out of it.

I don't think it was a case of Alonso didn't see Lewis coming. I think it was a case of they both didn't see what was coming...

Well...I guess we disagree

Hamilton certainly created a fuss (Monaco) but Alonso was the one who created a s##t storm at Hungary by threatening Dennis regarding Spygate and repeatedly arguing with RD over the season. But all in all you just have to look at it logically and say that Dennis and Alonso didn't get on, no one really wanted to fcuk anyone over last year, just a unique set of circumstances really.

[Jean Todt 4]

.........

[Jean Todt 4]

It doesn't matters whether Nando has the brains or not. Flavio has them. He already got a substantial budget increase for next year from Ghosn it seems.

I wouldn't bother with any other driver in the field though. They cannot bring anything useful to Renault, they are expensive and they already are used to work for another team. No, I would bring a cheaper driver from GP2. And they have the one that impressed the most lately (no, not Brunno, nor Pantano) Lucas Di Grassi.

De Grassi will be cheaper than any current F1 driver, can be molded to Renault's liking, would not upset Nando...and probably can't have a worst debut than Piquet's.

I will then use that increased budget to invest where it is really needed: car developement. They don't need to waste it on drivers if they can keep Nando.

Nando and Fifi would be the best pairing for Renault as well as Nando himself.

[AleHop 0]

Alonso made a few mistakes last year, and so did Hamilton. They had an excuse, they were driving for the World Championship against each other. What's Ron Dennis' excuse for his mismanagement?

Oh, no. It wasn't Ron Dennis it was Alonso once again.

Of course!

[Rainmaster 7]

Alonso made a few mistakes last year, and so did Hamilton. They had an excuse, they were driving for the World Championship against each other. What's Ron Dennis' excuse for his mismanagement?

Oh, no. It wasn't Ron Dennis it was Alonso once again.

Of course!

Obviously it's a dumb person who blames only Alonso for what happened last year. In fact no one is really to blame for any of it, it's just the way it happened, the way it had to happen with the factors there were.

[AleHop 0]

Obviously it's a dumb person who blames only Alonso for what happened last year. In fact no one is really to blame for any of it, it's just the way it happened, the way it had to happen with the factors there were.

But the drivers didn't play the biggest factor. Someone above them did.

[dribbler 6]

Of course Ron would give preference to Lewis, why SHOULDN'T he when he knows how much talent he really has?

Sorry, but that does nothing to prove that Lewis had preferrential treatment at McLaren. It's a bit like saying that because i have spent years looking after my car, then i must prefer it over my house.

Drib, I agree with you most of the time - but come on!! This is the same man that asks "What strategy are they on" when facing DC at his own team briefings!

Well, it's nice to be able to disagree with someone without it getting messy.

Coulthard claims that was the case and i believe him. He goes into more depth about it in his autobiography. There are two ways of looking at it; Ron acted in this way, totally unprovoked, with no justification and just purely to side with Mika for his own reasons. Or, was David already giving off vibes that he suspected a preference. Did his paranoia niggle Ron to the point where he played up to it to test David's mettle? My point is, there are always two sides. I'm on the fence. I just want conclusive proof. I haven't had any.

Also, this is the same man who had no such problems or gave no such preference as recently as Kimi and Juan Pablo. A man who has never been accused of giving prefence to drivers other than Lewis and Mika. A man who ran greats like Alain and Ayrton, side by side, with no problems in that respect, whatsoever. Think for a minute about the respective hardness of character of drivers like Ayrton, Alain, Mika, Kimi and Juan Pablo. Now, contrast that with what you know about David and Fernando. Is it really all about Ron?

More or less every team principal prefers one over the other. Alonso had it at Renault (and still does) with Briatore. (Remember Jarno Trulli's treatment....) Button has it at Honda, Vettel at STR, Kubica for BMW, and for some reason Massa at Ferrari.

Do they? I thought they just wanted both drivers to go as fast as each other. Alonso has it Renault? He's significantly faster than Nelson and delivering, that's all. Button has it at Honda? Where's your proof of that? Vettel? Well, he's delivering too. Kubica is delivering at BMW. Massa? Ferrari have just extended Kimi's contract; is that favouritism?

It seems to me that it's easy to conclude that just because a driver is quicker than his team mate that it equates to an unfair preference. I don't think that's true. I just think if you asked Flavio, for example, who his better driver is, he would say Fernando, and he would be right. The same with the other examples.

But Lewis and Fernando? They were evenly matched, weren't they? So how can you prefer one over the other? Or more importantly, let's say that although they were even, Ron DID prefer Lewis; what does that actually mean? Fernando was keen to stress that he never felt that he had unequal equipment or the same opportunity as Lewis.

My conclusion? There was equality at McLaren. Total and unequivocal equality. And THAT was Fernando's problem.

So, I'm sorry - but if Ron really didn't prefer Lewis over Alonso, he would have given Hamilton a test seat, and kept Pedro DLR as his number two.

As a logical and rational team principal with no reason to believe that there was going to be a big and messy rivalry, why on earth would Ron have picked a slower driver than Lewis?

The story has been thoroughly discussed on this forum and nobody's changed his mind. There's a list of events I remember that make me think that once Ron Dennis believed Hamilton could win the Championship he did everything he could to help Hamilton win because he thought Kimi/Ferrari were out of the game.

That maybe true but it's an ambiguous statement because it implies that Ron didn't do everything for Fernando too. Crucially to this discussion, you haven't said that he did that because he thought that Fernando was out of the game. And that's what we are discussing.

[AleHop 0]

That maybe true but it's an ambiguous statement because it implies that Ron didn't do everything for Fernando too. Crucially to this discussion, you haven't said that he did that because he thought that Fernando was out of the game. And that's what we are discussing.

What I remember is that he did everything he could for Fernando but in a completely different way.

[Kopite Girl 0]

Well, it's nice to be able to disagree with someone without it getting messy.

Coulthard claims that was the case and i believe him. He goes into more depth about it in his autobiography. There are two ways of looking at it; Ron acted in this way, totally unprovoked, with no justification and just purely to side with Mika for his own reasons. Or, was David already giving off vibes that he suspected a preference. Did his paranoia niggle Ron to the point where he played up to it to test David's mettle? My point is, there are always two sides. I'm on the fence. I just want conclusive proof. I haven't had any.

OK, look at it this way. Why didn't Ron simply sit down with Mika, then sit down with David, discuss what needed to be done - and then have a team meeting together. A good manager makes sure that his/her team feel equal. I make sure of that.

Also, this is the same man who had no such problems or gave no such preference as recently as Kimi and Juan Pablo. A man who has never been accused of giving prefence to drivers other than Lewis and Mika. A man who ran greats like Alain and Ayrton, side by side, with no problems in that respect, whatsoever. Think for a minute about the respective hardness of character of drivers like Ayrton, Alain, Mika, Kimi and Juan Pablo. Now, contrast that with what you know about David and Fernando. Is it really all about Ron?

OK. Kimi and JPM I will concede to. But I suppose Ron wanted a change in direction after the very mishap of unsuccessful driving the pair produced whilst at McLaren. Perhaps, in his heart he knew that equality between Lewis and Alonso would never happen, so it was up to him to gamble on his star choice. On paper, the partnership was awesome and just the right combination needed to beat Ferrari.

Do they? I thought they just wanted both drivers to go as fast as each other. Alonso has it Renault? He's significantly faster than Nelson and delivering, that's all. Button has it at Honda? Where's your proof of that? Vettel? Well, he's delivering too. Kubica is delivering at BMW. Massa? Ferrari have just extended Kimi's contract; is that favouritism?

Of course Fernando has favouritism at Renault. Why else would they want to keep a driver who hasn't really spoken that highly of them. Flabbio has admitted that Alonso is his star pupil. He made a twice world champion out of him!!

Button has been number one at Honda ever since he managed to disperse of JV. Dave Richards made sure of that also. Honda's first choice has always been Jenson, after all - wasn't it Button's decision to give Rubens his car number 2 years ago and not Honda's choice to put him in the first seat?

As for Ferrari extending Kimi's contract, he is a world champion. Why do the headlines not read "Schumi seen advising Kimi"...

It seems to me that it's easy to conclude that just because a driver is quicker than his team mate that it equates to an unfair preference. I don't think that's true. I just think if you asked Flavio, for example, who his better driver is, he would say Fernando, and he would be right. The same with the other examples.

But Lewis and Fernando? They were evenly matched, weren't they? So how can you prefer one over the other? Or more importantly, let's say that although they were even, Ron DID prefer Lewis; what does that actually mean? Fernando was keen to stress that he never felt that he had unequal equipment or the same opportunity as Lewis.

OK. I'm not trying to say that Alonso/Lewis one had better equipment than the other. I just feel in my heart that McLaren and not just Ron treated the pair differently. I feel that Lewis was given better opportunities, and more support where I feel that Fernando was basically left out in the cold. I think Ron could have tried a little harder with Fernando, is all. [Just as Flabbio could try harder to nurture Piquet]

Maybe Ferrari do have it right. They are putting their resources into a less talented (sorry) driver in Massa, knowing Kimi can handle it (or was able to) as he already has the natural speed. I don't know, but you have made me think!

[AleHop 0]

OK. I'm not trying to say that Alonso/Lewis one had better equipment than the other. I just feel in my heart that McLaren and not just Ron treated the pair differently. I feel that Lewis was given better opportunities, and more support where I feel that Fernando was basically left out in the cold. I think Ron could have tried a little harder with Fernando, is all.

That's what I think too but do you think they had the same equipment in Brazil or China where Alonso was nearly 1 s. slower than Hamilton in Q3? Then I remember Ron saying (in China) they weren't racing Kimi, they were racing Nando. But wait, Kimi won that Championship?

Dribbler is asking for some valid proof you can bring before a jury and it's something nobody has.

[Kopite Girl 0]

That's what I think too but do you think they had the same equipment in Brazil or China where Alonso was nearly 1 s. slower than Hamilton in Q3? Then I remember Ron saying (in China) they weren't racing Kimi, they were racing Nando. But wait, Kimi won that Championship?

Dribbler is asking for some valid proof you can bring before a jury and it's something nobody has.

Fair point. But then I will ask for valid proof that you can bring the fact that he wasn't treated unfairly before a jury. Nobody will be able to disprove that either.

Its a long winded debate, but I think I have given a good reason why I think what I do, and heard others, rather than just say "Lewis is Rons favourite, end of story."

The debate will never end, its something us F1 fans love to chew the fat over!

[AleHop 0]

The debate will never end, its something us F1 fans love to chew the fat over!

I thought it was that Mr. Murray Walker was throwing teasing baits all over the forums...

Actually, those baits could be fat and we might be chewing them on and on...