Der Kaiser

Why Has Nick Heidfeld Never Won A Gp?

65 posts in this topic

In the view of today's excellent 1st place by Vettel, it got me thinking. Why on earth has Nick Heidfeld not won a Grand Prix? He's a good driver, who has often been in pretty abysmal teams in terms of chances to win a gp. But then again, Toro Rosso aren't week in week out on the podium. Is it just bad luck, inconsistency, or bad driving? Because I reckon he's quite good at the latter.

EDIT: I didn't mean he's good at bad driving, I meant he's good at driving lol

Edited by Der Kaiser

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In the view of today's excellent 1st place by Vettel, it got me thinking. Why on earth has Nick Heidfeld not won a Grand Prix? He's a good driver, who has often been in pretty abysmal teams in terms of chances to win a gp. But then again, Toro Rosso aren't week in week out on the podium. Is it just bad luck, inconsistency, or bad driving? Because I reckon he's quite good at the latter.

Because he had never been on first position in the last lap.

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Because Kubica has been doing better than him & he does'nt seem to be as consistent as he was last season!

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Because eventually you will get a driver who is quite good like Nick, but he won't win a race or it will take him ages, it's just maths.

The reason he hasn't is because he isn't good enough to be put in a Ferrari/Mclaren and because he hasn't been lucky, and when he has been lucky others have been luckier.

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Considering BMW only just got their first win.. i think if he stays on for next year, he may get his first elusive win...

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Because he's just not that good. Solid, but not stellar. He should never have moved over for Kubica this year in Montreal.

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I put Webber and Heidfeld in the same group. Drivers who haven't won, when you thought they would have by now, yet you can't exactly remember why not (unless you follow their careers real close).

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I put Webber and Heidfeld in the same group. Drivers who haven't won, when you thought they would have by now, yet you can't exactly remember why not (unless you follow their careers real close).

Webber is not good enough - Nick is a nearly man, but will get a win if he retains his BMW drive.

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Webber is not good enough - Nick is a nearly man, but will get a win if he retains his BMW drive.

Okay so when has Webber 'not been good enough' to win?

Monaco - engine blew

Fuji - hit out

That's my point. You can't pin it on either where they've really lost their chance.

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Yeah those guys haven't won but it just feels like they aren't really supposed to. It's in the script that they don't win, it's in the script that Vettel did and will again.

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Okay so when has Webber 'not been good enough' to win?

Monaco - engine blew

Fuji - hit out

That's my point. You can't pin it on either where they've really lost their chance.

Nick has had a couple of 2nd places this season, Webber is just not quite good enough. He qualified 3rd finished 8th today, but it was the race when he qulaified on the front row then spun on the first lap that confirmed it to me. If Redbull switch to ferrari engines next year and Webber can beat Vettel he will win a race

Webber is good at quall, not great in the races while the reverse is true for Nick

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Nick has had a couple of 2nd places this season, Webber is just not quite good enough. He qualified 3rd finished 8th today, but it was the race when he qulaified on the front row then spun on the first lap that confirmed it to me. If Redbull switch to ferrari engines next year and Webber can beat Vettel he will win a race

Webber is good at quall, not great in the races while the reverse is true for Nick

Neither were race winning opportunities though so you have missed my point entirely (again). My point is that the reason behind Webber winning isn't because he messed up his opportunity on track, but that he is yet to have that opportunity (and may never do).

To say Webber isn't good enough, is to infer he had a chance but messed it up.

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Neither were race winning opportunities though so you have missed my point entirely (again). My point is that the reason behind Webber winning isn't because he messed up his opportunity on track, but that he is yet to have that opportunity (and may never do).

To say Webber isn't good enough, is to infer he had a chance but messed it up.

Ahh yes that is very true, sometimes things come together and sometimes not. Then again there must be a school of thought that you can make things happen for yourself if you have the talent, what Vettel has been doing this season and this weekend is an example.

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Neither were race winning opportunities though so you have missed my point entirely (again). My point is that the reason behind Webber winning isn't because he messed up his opportunity on track, but that he is yet to have that opportunity (and may never do).

To say Webber isn't good enough, is to infer he had a chance but messed it up.

You are being deliberately obtuse as usual.

If qualifying on the front row in monaco and 3rd today is not a race winning opportunity how has Vettel done it.

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You are being deliberately obtuse as usual.

If qualifying on the front row in monaco and 3rd today is not a race winning opportunity how has Vettel done it.

He qualified ninth in Monaco. So I don't know where you plucked that from.

As for today 'cos Toro Rosso's are faster than the Red Bull. The missed race winning opportunity falls on Heikki's shoulders today.

Feel free to call me what you want, the more colourful the better I find.

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He qualified ninth in Monaco. So I don't know where you plucked that from.

As for today 'cos Toro Rosso's are faster than the Red Bull. The missed race winning opportunity falls on Heikki's shoulders today.

Feel free to call me what you want, the more colourful the better I find.

ok, you're right, but I'm sure this thread was about Nick

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It's difficult to answer the question literally. Of course he hasn't won because others have crossed the line in front of him but think the realq uestion is "Is he good enough to win?"

What does that mean?

It means, is his ability of a high enough standard to maximise his potential when driving a car that is capable of winning? I would say, yes. In my opinion, his cars have not been good enough yet. If they were, Kubica would have won more than once because Kubica is better.

Nick is not in the top five drivers but he is good enough and experienced enough to win a grand prix. If his car was the best on the grid, he may win quite a few races. But he wouldn't win more than Kubica in that car, who would probably win the championship.

So, his car needs to be better, but he needs to be better too. With that in mind, he is a driver with considerably narrower chances of winning a race without luck playing its part.

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sometimes i think it just wasnt meant to be.

I think in that respect he is like Alesei: Often times in the right place but always at the wrong time

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Actually, I agree with all of the above. HOWEVER, Nick seems like a perfect "second" driver - steady, on the pace, but he needs a teammate to "measure up." He practically said so himself this year ( he likes having a fast teammate to chart his performance). Regardless of what some say, he would have NOT kept RK from passing in Montral - but he might have stopped Kubi from winning. He did the right thing, and at the time of that pass he did not give up the win (although later that's what it turned out to be). So, If he stays with the BMW ( and if continues like in the last 2 races, he will) he will likely win one next year.

Regardless, he is a very good and solid driver who, given a car and right circumstance should win a race or two. I actually hope that he does, simply because he deserves it.

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Actually, I agree with all of the above. HOWEVER, Nick seems like a perfect "second" driver - steady, on the pace, but he needs a teammate to "measure up." He practically said so himself this year ( he likes having a fast teammate to chart his performance). Regardless of what some say, he would have NOT kept RK from passing in Montral - but he might have stopped Kubi from winning. He did the right thing, and at the time of that pass he did not give up the win (although later that's what it turned out to be). So, If he stays with the BMW ( and if continues like in the last 2 races, he will) he will likely win one next year.

Regardless, he is a very good and solid driver who, given a car and right circumstance should win a race or two. I actually hope that he does, simply because he deserves it.

+1 agree

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Well you can never predict formula one can you, Singapore night race is next, and who would have thought that Vettel in a Toro Rosso would have won a formula one race today, just keep the faith, Heidfeld has had a good enough car though for 3 years in a row so the reason being why he hasnt won a race, right team just not the right time yet.

Webbers different, he did show the potential of his car in qualifying the stragerty in the red bull team usually goes to pot in the race and this is something that Christian Horner needs to address urgently as well as the Red Bull starts as so often webber is behind where he has started going into the first corner.

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