Clicky

Jump to content
DOF_power

Fia Might Order Power Down On Ferrari, Mercedes And Bmw.

Recommended Posts

Teams seek to equal engine performance

trenkler-2008it-sunday-31.jpg

By Jonathan Noble

Tuesday, September 16th 2008, 12:56 GMT

Behind-the-scenes efforts by teams to make Formula One engine performance more equal are set to be ramped up in the wake of Scuderia Toro Rosso's shock victory in the Italian Grand Prix, autosport.com has learned.

Sebastian Vettel caused a major surprise when he became F1's youngest ever winner at Monza, with a performance that highlighted the differences between his Ferrari-powered STR3 and the Renault powered car of sister team Red Bull Racing.

The result has provided further evidence to those who believe that there is now a genuine performance gap between different engines on the grid. A number of manufacturers - especially Renault

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a load of b*******.

Spec bore, spec stroke, spec minimum weight, spec center of gravity, spec no. of cylinders, spec V angle, spec max RPMs, spec ECU and still they found ways to un-spec them.

So now the losers/cry-babies what the FIA to come down on Ferrari/Mercedes/BMW just because they worked harder and got the rightly deserved results.

What about racing being a competition ?! :wtf::frusty::reddevile::reddevile::reddevile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This would be really stupid to limit just 3 teams.

BUT i do think it would be good to have BHP limited to 750 for all teams so the cars are more equal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"As teams we share information openly and have done for two and a half years now and the only difference in the package is the drivers and the engine."

Interesting. Doing away with engine development, slick tyres and no aero would effectively tunr F1 into A1 GP or GP2 - The other teams need to raise their game rather than stunting the growth of others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes but most teams can not compete with Toyota,Ferrari and McLaren in the cost side.

All that will happen is Ferrari and Mclaren will get Richer and quicker and other teams like Force India who can not match the development costs will fall away.

I feel a budget cap is the best way to go to insure good racing.

Would you prefer 3 drivers who are the only realistic option to win the race (Felipe,Kimi and Lewis) With a few others nicking podiums (Nick.Kubica Kovy and Trulli) or 22 Cars battling where anyone can win.

If a budget cap did come in we would be seeing tighter championships and the likes of Kubica,Vettel and a few others serious title contenders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

> No cost cutting measure or spec measure taken since the late 1960s onwards has ever made 20+ equal cars.

Cost cutting measures are the reason costs are so high in the first place.

Racing is the best man-machine combo winning not the best driver, racing is about competition about winners and losers not some socialist nonsense, it's about progress, improving the breed and selling cars, not entertainment nor marketing and selling drivers to worshiping freaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^

> No cost cutting measure or spec measure taken since the late 1960s onwards has ever made 20+ equal cars.

Cost cutting measures are the reason costs are so high in the first place.

Racing is the best man-machine combo winning not the best driver, racing is about competition about winners and losers not some socialist nonsense, it's about progress, improving the breed and selling cars, not entertainment nor marketing and selling drivers to worshiping freaks.

Rubbish.

Ferrari/Macca/BMW found a loophole, or maybe they just cheat under FIA's passive gaze. FIA won't go against these 3 teams unless they really went too far. I say either the complaint will be dismissed or, in case FIA acts against the 3 top teams, it would be a case of the other teams over smarting the top three. That's competition for you :P It has always been like that, mind you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a much better option than declaring the development situation on ice for 5 years. Is there a way to control the HP output and set some limit, allowing free development in all possible ways as long as its under the HP limit? I guess it's just utopia.

Not so long ago Renault was the engine everyone wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not have the FIA build cars and the teams rent them on race weekends and change them mileage as well as crash insurance , that way they could defray the cost of building and maintaining the cars . Think of it who could win the WDC with the lowest mileage .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DOF, we don't always agree on the driver side of things but we always seam to agree on the technical side of things. I think you are very right and I pretty much can't say it any better then you have already. The rules are the rules and if you find a loophole use it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What a load of b*******.

Spec bore, spec stroke, spec minimum weight, spec center of gravity, spec no. of cylinders, spec V angle, spec max RPMs, spec ECU and still they found ways to un-spec them.

So now the losers/cry-babies what the FIA to come down on Ferrari/Mercedes/BMW just because they worked harder and got the rightly deserved results.

What about racing being a competition ?! :wtf::frusty::reddevile::reddevile::reddevile:

Totally agree.

Rubbish.

Ferrari/Macca/BMW found a loophole, or maybe they just cheat under FIA's passive gaze. FIA won't go against these 3 teams unless they really went too far. I say either the complaint will be dismissed or, in case FIA acts against the 3 top teams, it would be a case of the other teams over smarting the top three. That's competition for you :P It has always been like that, mind you.

Cheating is open to every team, not just the richest or the ones with the best brains, which in this case happen to be Ferrari, McLaren and BMW. I don't think for one minute that any of the three have cheated, especially McLaren. They have worked hard to extract more power through clever rule interpretation.

I bet Flavio and Horner are the instigators. Get Renault to take their fingers out of their arses and catch up, don't bitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not have the FIA build cars and the teams rent them on race weekends and change them mileage as well as crash insurance , that way they could defray the cost of building and maintaining the cars . Think of it who could win the WDC with the lowest mileage .

Great idea! It would solve all the problems in F1. Alas, most people say they want 'innovation', even though they wouldn't recognise it if someone hit them over the head with an ultra-strong, carbon-fibre baseball bat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great idea! It would solve all the problems in F1. Alas, most people say they want 'innovation', even though they wouldn't recognise it if someone hit them over the head with an ultra-strong, carbon-fibre baseball bat.

If that happened I'd stop watching without even looking back. As would quite a few others. I think you underestimate the number of people who watch or started watching because of the technical side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Totally agree.

Cheating is open to every team, not just the richest or the ones with the best brains, which in this case happen to be Ferrari, McLaren and BMW. I don't think for one minute that any of the three have cheated, especially McLaren. They have worked hard to extract more power through clever rule interpretation.

I bet Flavio and Horner are the instigators. Get Renault to take their fingers out of their arses and catch up, don't bitch.

Was a case of me being "ha ha only serious". I don' think they actually cheatd (not this season, at least :whistling: ) and I didn't mean to say that it's a rich team's prerrogative. I am also sure that Flavio must be one of the main lobbyists behind this move.

What I meant was that some teams found a "loophole" and took advantage of it. Others can find a loophole or ask for that loophole to be closed. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I think the engine freeze is one of the stupidest ideas ever. If you make such a stupid rule, you should expect teams trying to find loopholes and you should expect teams which are not smart/patient enough to find one to ask for them to be closed.

Stupid rules enforce stupid behavior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If that happened I'd stop watching without even looking back. As would quite a few others. I think you underestimate the number of people who watch or started watching because of the technical side.

:lol: I don't underestimate their numbers, but the vast majority of them know nothing about the technical side that they claim is so interesting. Also I think everyone underestimates the number of people who might watch F1 if every driver had a fair shot at winning.

Edited by Murray Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would you prefer 3 drivers who are the only realistic option to win the race (Felipe,Kimi and Lewis) With a few others nicking podiums (Nick.Kubica Kovy and Trulli) or 22 Cars battling where anyone can win.

Technically if Heikki wasn't crap he could win as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not have the FIA build cars and the teams rent them on race weekends and change them mileage as well as crash insurance , that way they could defray the cost of building and maintaining the cars . Think of it who could win the WDC with the lowest mileage .

I do think there is heavy sarcasm here. But anyway, the FIA is a regulatory body and that's its role: regulate (interfere with!) the sport. F1 is as much or more so about the constructors; and different chassis/engine combinations is what defines the sport. Taking this way, I doubt any of the big names would ever compete in what essentially would be a drivers' competition; no constructor loves its drivers this much, not even Ron!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do think there is heavy sarcasm here. But anyway, the FIA is a regulatory body and that's its role: regulate (interfere with!) the sport. F1 is as much or more so about the constructors; and different chassis/engine combinations is what defines the sport. Taking this way, I doubt any of the big names would ever compete in what essentially would be a drivers' competition; no constructor loves its drivers this much, not even Ron!

Spot on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Was a case of me being "ha ha only serious". I don' think they actually cheatd (not this season, at least :whistling: ) and I didn't mean to say that it's a rich team's prerrogative. I am also sure that Flavio must be one of the main lobbyists behind this move.

What I meant was that some teams found a "loophole" and took advantage of it. Others can find a loophole or ask for that loophole to be closed. Nothing wrong with that.

Personally, I think the engine freeze is one of the stupidest ideas ever. If you make such a stupid rule, you should expect teams trying to find loopholes and you should expect teams which are not smart/patient enough to find one to ask for them to be closed.

Stupid rules enforce stupid behavior

I agree with your loophole theory too. But i'm not that adverse to the engine freeze. It has been enforced for sound reasons, even if, on the face of it it seems bad or constricting to our sport. You need to have boundaries in design (cue mental explosion from DOF!) or else things sprial out of control in all areas. Then, we wouldn't just see teams complain, they would just dissapear even quicker than what they do already.

Renault are watching the big three getting p!ssed whilst they get angry searching for the bottle opener, that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loopholes sounds like the sport of Lawyers .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...