Der Kaiser

Penalties

62 posts in this topic

I really think the whole pit lane/safety car rule is stupid.

Always said that the teams should submit their strategies to the FIA & Race Control at least two hours before the race, so if a safety car happens to be needed, those on a scheduled pit stop are allowed to take them, without penalty.

As for drive throughs, etc - simple. Re-write the rules to say if a team release somebody unsafely into the path of another car, the team are docked WCC points. This will hurt them the most, and if it is found to be the drivers fault, take points from him too. This cannot be contested at any appeal.

Stop/Go should be reserved for harsher punishment - example blocking on track, chicane drive-overs, general unsportsmanship on track. These are able to be appealed.

I know not everyone will agree with me, but thats what I think.

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Nah, not anymore. Now it's: I try but the walls are just too attractive. (It actually seemed like he was trying to close on Glock for a sec before he crashed XD)

:lol: True! He does love those walls, I think that once again he was looking for his mojo behind the wall like in Spa.

:lol:

Do you think that Ferrari were ready to drop Kimi but then saw the come back Britney Spears made and thought again?

:lol:

Ferrari really need to get their s##t together and fast, it's getting to the point where I feel sorry for Massa because they are killing his title challenge.

I really think the whole pit lane/safety car rule is stupid.

Always said that the teams should submit their strategies to the FIA & Race Control at least two hours before the race, so if a safety car happens to be needed, those on a scheduled pit stop are allowed to take them, without penalty.

As for drive throughs, etc - simple. Re-write the rules to say if a team release somebody unsafely into the path of another car, the team are docked WCC points. This will hurt them the most, and if it is found to be the drivers fault, take points from him too. This cannot be contested at any appeal.

Stop/Go should be reserved for harsher punishment - example blocking on track, chicane drive-overs, general unsportsmanship on track. These are able to be appealed.

I know not everyone will agree with me, but thats what I think.

I bet Ferrari would approve of that idea :whistling::lol:

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:lol:

Do you think that Ferrari were ready to drop Kimi but then saw the come back Britney Spears made and thought again?

But.....

....Nico's only had one good race. :lol:

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I agree the penalties for Rosberg and Kubica were harsh but that's the rules this year. the rule is stupid I hope they change it.

Massa on the other hand got penalised for unsafe release from pit stop and almost crashing Sutil (again). That was fair but still I was bit surprised that they didn't black flaged him for work on the car taken place not in the Ferrari designated area.

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I can't quite seem to understand why a potentially dangerous incident (i.e. massa's unsafe release) is punished less harshly than a mere technicality (i.e. nico and kubica's penalty). This is stupid.

Because that's what the rules says and they all know it, it's the same that happened to LH and there was a lot of people complaining about but it was all in the rules, the rules says if you do this violation you get this penalty and they all know it and agreed to race with thoses rules, probably it doesn't make sense to you but they have to do what the rules says.

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Massa on the other hand got penalised for unsafe release from pit stop and almost crashing Sutil (again). That was fair but still I was bit surprised that they didn't black flaged him for work on the car taken place not in the Ferrari designated area.

My brother said the same thing. It was weird.

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This strange rule where cars are penalized for pursuing their normal race strategy is absurd and needs to be ended now. All I have to say on Massa is, if he deserved a penalty today why not Valencia?

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:nono1::thbdn::mf_tongue:

Maybe 'cos he didn't gain any place? :rolleyes:

In fact he lost a couple of places there, and he had to do it or crash/touch someone else. :king:

:D

Sorry Ale, I was watching with my I-hate Honda-for-giving-Button-a-crap-car glasses, forgot you might be wearing your Fernando-can-do-no-wrong specs.

I'll check the replay with my super-accurate-but-purely-fictional-FIA glasses to confirm that he took two places (as did Heidfeld btw) and didn't give them back - will you do the same? :P:P

Edited by medilloni

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The stewards of the meeting at Singapore have rejected the appeal from Toyota about Sebastian Vettel who was believed by Toyota to have an unsafe release from the pits.

The race stewards look at video footage of the pit release, spoke to both drivers and then discussed.

Toyota remain 15 points ahead of Toro Rosso in the constructors championship.

its getting more and more ridiculous. why dont they go complain of nico instead?

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My brother said the same thing. It was weird.

But there was no work to alter the car in any way.....

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This strange rule where cars are penalized for pursuing their normal race strategy is absurd and needs to be ended now. All I have to say on Massa is, if he deserved a penalty today why not Valencia?

It's FIA doing a great job again.

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This strange rule where cars are penalized for pursuing their normal race strategy is absurd and needs to be ended now. All I have to say on Massa is, if he deserved a penalty today why not Valencia?

Well, in Valencia, it would have actually made a difference to the points he got......................... :whistling:

Seriously, though, different stewards, different result. Mind you, I guess the fact that Ferrari had infringed this rule already this season, probably didn't help either.

Do you think Sutil's pit entry consists of brake, engage pit speed limiter, avoid Massa, stop in pit box??? :lol:

Edited by pabloh20

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I disagree. Massa and WHOLE team made a BIG mistake. Kubi and baby face Rosberg wanted to obtein an advantage. Nico

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I agree the penalties for Rosberg and Kubica were harsh but that's the rules this year. the rule is stupid I hope they change it.

Massa on the other hand got penalised for unsafe release from pit stop and almost crashing Sutil (again). That was fair but still I was bit surprised that they didn't black flaged him for work on the car taken place not in the Ferrari designated area.

He was not out of the pit lane - the cars can be worked on at any point in the pitlane - had he gone over the white line and they worked on him then he would have gotten a stop/go or DQ...what am I saying? It's Ferrari, he would have been promoted ten places....

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So you think Massa should get more than a drive through??

Yes!

He nearly set the pit lane on fire taking a few of his mechanics with him and nearly taking out Sutil in the process.

While Kubica and Rosberg pitted while the safety car was out and the pit lane was "closed".

How exactly can the FIA justify the fact that Kubica and Rosberg deserved harsher penalties?

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Yes!

He nearly set the pit lane on fire taking a few of his mechanics with him and nearly taking out Sutil in the process.

While Kubica and Rosberg pitted while the safety car was out and the pit lane was "closed".

How exactly can the FIA justify the fact that Kubica and Rosberg deserved harsher penalties?

Their cars are not red.....I thought we'd been over this already :P

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how was massa at fault, the light turned green and he went. The problem Ferrari have is that if the lighting system fails there is no lollypop man so Massa didn't know that he had a problem untill he was already too far gone and had to wait at the end of the pit lane.

The thing I don't get is why a Driver gets penalized for unsafe release which is something he does not have any control over. I think unsafe release should be a big fine for a team not a race ending penalty for a driver.

Well ultimately the driver makes the decision whether to leave his pit box or not. The lollipop man (or in Ferrari case the ever so reliable traffic lights system) merely is a guide to the driver know that the work on the car is done and that the driver can drive away. If theres traffic coming, thats the lollipop mans responsiblilty though the driver can easily ignore the lollipop man further emphasising that it is the drivers decision rather than the teams. I know it doesnt sound logical but the point im making is that the driver is the one controlling the car not the pit crew. So penalising the team and driver is fair.

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Ok. Enough with the paranoia. You pit under SC while the pit lane is closed, you get a stop and go.

Article 40.6 FIA Sporting Regulations. it might be stupid, but it was there for the whole 2008 season. It wasn't made up just to help Massa.

That's how the FIA justifies it. Now please anybody tell me how can you justify that this was made on purpose to help Massa? :P

Edited: quote

Edited by Quiet One

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*delete this post please*

Edited by 5P33D3V1L

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I disagree. Massa and WHOLE team made a BIG mistake. Kubi and baby face Rosberg wanted to obtein an advantage. Nico

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Well ultimately the driver makes the decision whether to leave his pit box or not. The lollipop man (or in Ferrari case the ever so reliable traffic lights system) merely is a guide to the driver know that the work on the car is done and that the driver can drive away. If theres traffic coming, thats the lollipop mans responsiblilty though the driver can easily ignore the lollipop man further emphasising that it is the drivers decision rather than the teams. I know it doesnt sound logical but the point im making is that the driver is the one controlling the car not the pit crew. So penalising the team and driver is fair.

:yes:

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Well ultimately the driver makes the decision whether to leave his pit box or not. The lollipop man (or in Ferrari case the ever so reliable traffic lights system) merely is a guide to the driver know that the work on the car is done and that the driver can drive away. If theres traffic coming, thats the lollipop mans responsiblilty though the driver can easily ignore the lollipop man further emphasising that it is the drivers decision rather than the teams. I know it doesnt sound logical but the point im making is that the driver is the one controlling the car not the pit crew. So penalising the team and driver is fair.

I have no problem with the penalty Massa received, but to blame Massa for the incident is laughable. He can't even see out his mirrors with the mechanics around him. It is the pit crews responsiblity to send the car away, plain and simple. To think anything else would make me question your knowledge and objectivity.

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I'll check the replay with my super-accurate-but-purely-fictional-FIA glasses to confirm that he took two places (as did Heidfeld btw) and didn't give them back - will you do the same? :P:P

But I don't have a pair of glasses like thouse. :eusa_think:

Ok, ok. I'll try to watch the start again and see how was it.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=AsLJoYBOch0

Seriously, I think Alonso might have been penalised if it hadn't happened during the start of the race.

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Yup. Like not running out of fuel due to an unexpected SC. Now, the only other way to gain an advantage would be for them to park side by side on that bridge and halt the whole race. After two hours expired, they would be declared winners. Now why didn't they thought of that???

I

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I have no problem with the penalty Massa received, but to blame Massa for the incident is laughable. He can't even see out his mirrors with the mechanics around him. It is the pit crews responsiblity to send the car away, plain and simple. To think anything else would make me question your knowledge and objectivity.

Im not blaming the incident on Massa, Im blaming his team AND him. They both deserved to be penalised.

And I dont believe the "cant even see out his mirrors" statement is true. As its been made clear by all the teams and pit crew up and down the paddock that drivers have a habbit to "fuel hose watch" which isnt recommended by the mechanics as mistakes like this tend to happen. Even Schumi was guilty of that action. Maybe Massa was partly guilty of that yesterday?

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