monza gorilla 1 Report post Posted October 10, 2008 I am still as right as ever, I just can't be bothered coming up with lap times and videos and references since the general standard of debate here has dropped so low. I would rather not spend an hour on a post that is followed by 10 of the best innuendo Paul can come up with. I thought you were made of sterner stuff. What you need is a worthy adversary. I'm not applying for the post, btw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 10, 2008 I would never waste my best innuendo on you, Cav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 my 2 pennies worth... I think Alonso would do best to stick with renault for another year. He can show the rest of the F1 community that he's a really good lead driver to have and can help a team take a car from mid grid to (possibly by the end of next year) competing consistently at the top. He did it before and Renault with his help can do it again. I think they need to assess how much Piquet putting into the team. Not how he's doing in races, but if his ability in aiding development of the car justifies keeping him for another year. Only Renault will know that. After another peaceful year at Renault, Alonso will be in a far better position to make a move on his terms. Right now it's too soon after last year's tumultious season and that's why other teams are a bit shy in coming forward for him. (I'm not saying Alonso was responsible for last years shinnanigans - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other if you ask me. - It's just that Hamilton came out on top in McLaren - and that dented Alonso stock.) Also - look at the top teams. BMW are pretty happy with the drivers they have - both doing pretty respectably. Ferrari have Kimi until atleast next year and Massa's coming through well this season. McLaren aren't going to be having Alonso back. And who's 4th in the team standings? Renault. I see him sitting it out there for another year, reanult finishing 2009 in the top 3 and then moving to Ferrari. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 my 2 pennies worth...I think Alonso would do best to stick with renault for another year. He can show the rest of the F1 community that he's a really good lead driver to have and can help a team take a car from mid grid to (possibly by the end of next year) competing consistently at the top. He did it before and Renault with his help can do it again. I think they need to assess how much Piquet putting into the team. Not how he's doing in races, but if his ability in aiding development of the car justifies keeping him for another year. Only Renault will know that. After another peaceful year at Renault, Alonso will be in a far better position to make a move on his terms. Right now it's too soon after last year's tumultious season and that's why other teams are a bit shy in coming forward for him. (I'm not saying Alonso was responsible for last years shinnanigans - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other if you ask me. - It's just that Hamilton came out on top in McLaren - and that dented Alonso stock.) Also - look at the top teams. BMW are pretty happy with the drivers they have - both doing pretty respectably. Ferrari have Kimi until atleast next year and Massa's coming through well this season. McLaren aren't going to be having Alonso back. And who's 4th in the team standings? Renault. I see him sitting it out there for another year, reanult finishing 2009 in the top 3 and then moving to Ferrari. Ferrari don't want Alonso, otherwise they wouldn't have resigned Kimi. Alonso was desperate to go there so it was the Ferrari managers who said no... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Ferrari don't want Alonso, otherwise they wouldn't have resigned Kimi. Alonso was desperate to go there so it was the Ferrari managers who said no... indeed - what I'm saying is that if Alonso brings the renault back to the front next year, we might see his stock rising to the point where ferrari do want him - either for 2010 or 11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goferrarigo 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 indeed - what I'm saying is that if Alonso brings the renault back to the front next year, we might see his stock rising to the point where ferrari do want him - either for 2010 or 11. Will he survive that long?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yurp 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Will he survive that long?? He's a naturally fast driver - I would think he'll last - a lot depends on renault and a lot depends on kimi too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Possibly he would. The engine equalisation process counts in Renault's favour to keep him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Massa has proven you don't need to spend Millions on a Driver. Build the best car, put in a capable driver, and he will win for you. As I have said for years, the driver component is such a small peice of what it takes to win. Finally teams are starting to see this themselves. The best cars will attract the best drivers, and you don't need to open up the bank account to get them. I am really not sure why Ferrari and Mclaren are willing to pay so much for a driver. Most guys would drive for them for free. Poor money management on the teams part I guess. They may have the biggest budgets, because they are the worst money managers. It just gets hidden in the smoke and mirrors of F1 technogarbage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiko01 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Massa has proven you don't need to spend Millions on a Driver. Build the best car, put in a capable driver, and he will win for you. As I have said for years, the driver component is such a small peice of what it takes to win. Finally teams are starting to see this themselves. The best cars will attract the best drivers, and you don't need to open up the bank account to get them. I am really not sure why Ferrari and Mclaren are willing to pay so much for a driver. Most guys would drive for them for free. Poor money management on the teams part I guess. They may have the biggest budgets, because they are the worst money managers. It just gets hidden in the smoke and mirrors of F1 technogarbage I strongly disagree here... For sure the best driver would not make the worst car a winning one but the racer is still a very important factor. Look what MS did in Ferrari or what FA did in Renault where he never had the best car but still won 2 WDC (Do you think Hakkinen would have won 5 WDC with Michael's Ferrari or Raikkonen would have won 2 WDC with Fernando's Renault? If you think so you're crazy) What exactlly has Massa proven? That he's able to spun 8 times in a grand prix? Yeah, huge achievement Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Rumble Strip 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 I agree in principle. Put Sutil in a Ferrari or McLaren for example and he would not be WDC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kopite Girl 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 I strongly disagree here... For sure the best driver would not make the worst car a winning one but the racer is still a very important factor. Look what MS did in Ferrari or what FA did in Renault where he never had the best car but still won 2 WDC (Do you think Hakkinen would have won 5 WDC with Michael's Ferrari or Raikkonen would have won 2 WDC with Fernando's Renault? If you think so you're crazy)What exactlly has Massa proven? That he's able to spun 8 times in a grand prix? Yeah, huge achievement I agree with the majority of this post. People forget, Schumi won the championship not only in a Ferrari, but twice in a Bennetton also. He made the team what it was. Just as he did Ferrari. However, as much as I would have agreed with you a few races back, Massa has tried very hard, with limited talent to become a contender for the WDC. I have a lot of respect for him for turning it around like that, even if he loses - he has that fighting spirit. He TRIES. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 I strongly disagree here... For sure the best driver would not make the worst car a winning one but the racer is still a very important factor. Look what MS did in Ferrari or what FA did in Renault where he never had the best car but still won 2 WDC (Do you think Hakkinen would have won 5 WDC with Michael's Ferrari or Raikkonen would have won 2 WDC with Fernando's Renault? If you think so you're crazy)What exactlly has Massa proven? That he's able to spun 8 times in a grand prix? Yeah, huge achievement I agree in principle.Put Sutil in a Ferrari or McLaren for example and he would not be WDC. I agree with the majority of this post. People forget, Schumi won the championship not only in a Ferrari, but twice in a Bennetton also. He made the team what it was. Just as he did Ferrari. However, as much as I would have agreed with you a few races back, Massa has tried very hard, with limited talent to become a contender for the WDC. I have a lot of respect for him for turning it around like that, even if he loses - he has that fighting spirit. He TRIES. Yes to all of these posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 We still discussing this? Things are much simpler: Nando's next team was the only probable move everybody were following for most of the year. Again, they all said no. But first they asked and negotiated. So to say that nobody wants him is at least stupid. Even Cav knew that when he started the thread. Again: Toyota, Honda, STR, Red Bull, BMW and Ferrari (yes, they wanted him, has everybody forgotten Montezemolo sucking up to him?) were obviously trying to lure him to their teams. WHen it didn't work, they re signed their drivers or chose another option. So now nobody wants him except Renault, duh! What a trivial truth! Hey, wait! I have lots of threads now: "Why doesn't anyone want Lewis?" "Why doesn't anyone want Kimi?" "Why doesn't anyone want DC?". No, wait, that last one makes sense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 I agree more with YHR than anyone else here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 Ferrari don't want Alonso, otherwise they wouldn't have resigned Kimi. Alonso was desperate to go there so it was the Ferrari managers who said no... With or without Alonso they must be desperate now that the Championship is over for them. Ferrari is out. Massa is out. Kimi is... Where's the b#####d? Well done! Next year more, please. More Kimi, more Massa... More spectacle! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted October 11, 2008 I strongly disagree here... For sure the best driver would not make the worst car a winning one but the racer is still a very important factor. Look what MS did in Ferrari or what FA did in Renault where he never had the best car but still won 2 WDC (Do you think Hakkinen would have won 5 WDC with Michael's Ferrari or Raikkonen would have won 2 WDC with Fernando's Renault? If you think so you're crazy)What exactlly has Massa proven? That he's able to spun 8 times in a grand prix? Yeah, huge achievement I didn't say put a monkey in the car. I said put in a good capable driver and they will win races for you. As far as your comments about Massa, that is so old, and yes he did finish the race which is more then a lot of the other drivers did at Silverstone. Massa is getting paid about 1/10th of what KR is getting. Is a driver really worth that????? I think not. How about Hamilton last year at McClaren. Seems to me like the guys getting paid less are doing better jobs. How about RB and JB. Who do you think gets paid more there???? Is he worth it.????? The answer is no on all counts. The truly greats will gain you a few positons on the grid, but to win the WDC, they still need to be in one of the best cars on the grid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Cav...Fuji race has just ended... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Prophet who? Was Andres who said Alonso would win the last 4 races? Nah, he isn't a prophet he knows who is the best. Renault, of course. PS- Fuji is over and Renault reminds me '05 and '06 so much... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Prophet who?Was Andres who said Alonso would win the last 4 races? Nah, he isn't a prophet he knows who is the best. Renault, of course. PS- Fuji is over and Renault reminds me '05 and '06 so much... Now we just need Hamilton and Massa out of the game in the last two races as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quiet One 15 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Now we just need Hamilton and Massa out of the game in the last two races as well Don't worry, they will do their best to keep me happy. The have the talent, they have they will, and they have the drive...to ruin their own races Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Don't worry, they will do their best to keep me happy. The have the talent, they have they will, and they have the drive...to ruin their own races Yeah, I really liked the quote you posted in the other thread too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Now we just need Hamilton and Massa out of the game in the last two races as well They're out of Nando's game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaky2 1 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 They're out of Nando's game. Careful not to jinx him You're too happy, it gets disgusting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AleHop 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2008 Careful not to jinx him Lately only Massa and Hamilton seem to be jinxable. You're too happy, it gets disgusting He, he, he... I feel more confident for 2009 now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
