Bourdais 25 S. Penalty

[maure 1]

Should driver be penalized for driving his car deliberately towards the other car threatening to cause potentially fatal crash?

It is not just an issue of a "potentially fatal crash". There is also unfair advantage to take into consideration. Otherwise, for example, Hamilton could drive Massa into the grass the next two races and walk away with the WC.

We can btch about the stewards day and night but ther job is not simple. Same happens in all sports, from tennis to soccer.

[maure 1]

Is it truthiness that at Valencia after a pit release that the stewards deemed unsafe Massa was punished with a fine, an option that isn't technically open to them for the infringement? Is it also truthiness that at Spa in order to justify themselves the FIA invented a new rule saying if a driver cuts a chicane, overtakes and cedes the position, he must wait until at least one corner has gone by before attacking, a "clarification" that in 20 years of watching all forms of motorsport is a new one on me. Maybe it's truthiness that at Fuji Bourdais was punished for NOTHING promoting guess who. Was Alonso being paranoid when he said at Monza that F1 is no longer a sport? Maybe you are happy with the way decisions are taken in F1 but there are a lot of people out there that aren't.

We've seen stewards inventing rules for years. Your obsession with a Hamilton chase-down is a joke but it is understandable since Hamilton has many times benefited from such questionable decisions. No one screams 'theft!!!' louder than a thief.

[YHR 0]

It is not just an issue of a "potentially fatal crash". There is also unfair advantage to take into consideration. Otherwise, for example, Hamilton could drive Massa into the grass the next two races and walk away with the WC.

We can btch about the stewards day and night but ther job is not simple. Same happens in all sports, from tennis to soccer.

This is where the rubber meets the road. For example this advantage must be gained by a deliberate and calculated action. As fans that is what we want to see.

Did Hamilton deliberately botch up the first corner or was it simply his error. If he screwed up no peanalty should be issued

Did Massa deliberately spin Hamilton, or was his error being to aggressive. If it was error in Judgement then no penalty should be issued

When MS tried to crash out Villeneuve, there was no doubt that is what he was intending to do. That shoud be penalized

Personally when I saw Webber pushing FM on to the pit lane exit, I figured they should throw the book at him as the was the worse thing I saw in Fuji. He deliberately and maliciously created a very dangerous incident.

So in my mind the stewards completely made one bad call after another once again. They couldn't do a worse job if they tried to be horrible.

Drivers should be able to make errors in Judgement without being penalized when they do.

[maure 1]

You would need to be telepathic for that. How else could you differentiate an "error of judgement" from else? Remember MS in Monaco's qualification a few years back? You can have an opinion but no certainty regarding his intentions. As I said, we can btch about the stewards day and night but ther job is not simple. Same happens in all sports, from tennis to soccer. I would've not penalized anyone last GP but I don't have any responsibility in the sport...

[yurp 0]

No kidding. Handing out penalites for close calls like we saw at Fuji is ridiculous. Let me just say this, a driver who purposely spins another driver with the front wheels of his F1 car isn't going to finish many races. End of story . Hamilton drove like an idiot into the first corner, but even that was just a simple driver error. No real malice was in place. End of story. The guys just goofed up and the stewards had no business being involved.

Stewards should be there to prevent obvious cheating on the track and lack of respect for the rules. ie Not observing blue flags, or cutting across the track to shorten the distance between corners. Pit speed violations. What has happened now, is everytime there is an on track skirmish, everyone is looking for a penalty. That is BS and ruins the spectacle.

Exactly my opinion. F1's becoming increasingly like Italian football - I've always prefered the premiership.

[hookedon-f1 0]

Wouldn't the correct answer be this...

It was pretty much a racing incident with Bourdais being more at fault than the Ferrari driver however.

That said it should NEVER have been a penalty... THAT SAID, im glad it was and I hope that 1 point costs that piece of sh!t driving car number 22 the title.

hahahaha

[rodders47 2]

nope that is crap personisfied.

Bordais had the line, massa didn't, I have the whole race on record and have watched that incident over and over. For sure a penality should have been given INMHO, to Massa not bordais, I thought both drivers were were fighting for position ! no driver lapping another, so if the former is correct why is it not allowed for a "Lower is the eschelon of teams race competitor" able to fight for his rightfull place in the standings, but have to except , well this is a Ferrari that is about to chop off my entry into this corner so I must Obey the almightly???

total CRAP or the more exceptable definition, a male animals excretia!!

[Wez 0]

nope that is crap personisfied.

Bordais had the line, massa didn't, I have the whole race on record and have watched that incident over and over. For sure a penality should have been given INMHO, to Massa not bordais, I thought both drivers were were fighting for position ! no driver lapping another, so if the former is correct why is it not allowed for a "Lower is the eschelon of teams race competitor" able to fight for his rightfull place in the standings, but have to except , well this is a Ferrari that is about to chop off my entry into this corner so I must Obey the almightly???

total CRAP or the more exceptable definition, a male animals excretia!!

So Rodders is a Hamilton fan in other words

[Wez 0]

In that case every race itself is a racing incident.

Maybe the FIA should make the entire grid come though the pitlane for a drive through at the end of lap 1 of every Grand Prix just to resolve this...

[Alan333 0]

We've seen stewards inventing rules for years. Your obsession with a Hamilton chase-down is a joke but it is understandable since Hamilton has many times benefited from such questionable decisions. No one screams 'theft!!!' louder than a thief.

Why do people seem to be happy with stewards re-writing races according to their whims. This post reinforces the allegations of steward bias. Thanks Maure.

[Alan333 0]

nope that is crap personisfied.

Bordais had the line, massa didn't, I have the whole race on record and have watched that incident over and over. For sure a penality should have been given INMHO, to Massa not bordais, I thought both drivers were were fighting for position ! no driver lapping another, so if the former is correct why is it not allowed for a "Lower is the eschelon of teams race competitor" able to fight for his rightfull place in the standings, but have to except , well this is a Ferrari that is about to chop off my entry into this corner so I must Obey the almightly???

total CRAP or the more exceptable definition, a male animals excretia!!

Yep but it's a shame the obvious should be so objectionable on this forum.

[YHR 0]

You would need to be telepathic for that. How else could you differentiate an "error of judgement" from else? Remember MS in Monaco's qualification a few years back? You can have an opinion but no certainty regarding his intentions. As I said, we can btch about the stewards day and night but ther job is not simple. Same happens in all sports, from tennis to soccer. I would've not penalized anyone last GP but I don't have any responsibility in the sport...

That is why I used the term, "where the rubber meets the road". That is the fine line to walk, and one that will be always questioned in most cases. However the stewards have broadened their involvement to a degree that they are a bigger factor then the weather.

Using the Fuji Grand Prix as an example

Hamilton at start . Error in Judgment. Easy Decision, no penalty

Massa spinning Hamilton, Maybe a little tricky, but has Massa ever done this before, No. No penalty, but if there was a history of this kind of thng, then maybe. Tougher call.

Massa/Bourdais Massa was flying, Bourdais got in his way which he is entitled to. Bigger driver error on Massa side, Massa spun lost time, all good no penalty.

Webber/Massa. Webber deliberately kept moving over on Massa forcing him deeper and deeper into the Pit lane. Hugh potential for a Major Crash. Drive through for Webber,

That is they way I would have called it.

So guys who think Massa was helped by the stewards are kidding themselves. Without that drive through for Massa, He would have been on the podium, and the WDC would be tied. Again the Stewards actions totally changed the result, and it favored Hamilton more then Massa.

[pabloh20 1]

That is why I used the term, "where the rubber meets the road". That is the fine line to walk, and one that will be always questioned in most cases. However the stewards have broadened their involvement to a degree that they are a bigger factor then the weather.

Using the Fuji Grand Prix as an example

Hamilton at start . Error in Judgment. Easy Decision, no penalty

Massa spinning Hamilton, Maybe a little tricky, but has Massa ever done this before, No. No penalty, but if there was a history of this kind of thng, then maybe. Tougher call.

Massa/Bourdais Massa was flying, Bourdais got in his way which he is entitled to. Bigger driver error on Massa side, Massa spun lost time, all good no penalty.

Webber/Massa. Webber deliberately kept moving over on Massa forcing him deeper and deeper into the Pit lane. Hugh potential for a Major Crash. Drive through for Webber,

That is they way I would have called it.

So guys who think Massa was helped by the stewards are kidding themselves. Without that drive through for Massa, He would have been on the podium, and the WDC would be tied. Again the Stewards actions totally changed the result, and it favored Hamilton more then Massa.

I know what you are saying, but it's still a tad tricky to call. When you start to use 'has the driver done this type of thing before' as part of the process, you are opening a can of worms. For example, Massa hasn't done this type of thing before, but who's to say that this isn't the start of doing that type of thing? Similarly, just because a driver has done it before, who's to say that this time he did it on purpose?

The other problem, I think, is the stewards' reasoning for some penalties these past couple of years of 'avoidable accident/collision'. It's such an ambiguous term, really, because I would imagine the majority of accidents/collisions are avoidable, but under that sort of 'umbrella' reasoning, they could pretty much penalise any incident they wanted.

Mind you, even under that reasoning, I still can't see how Bourdais got a penalty

[cavallino 2]

I think the penalty is a gross injustice, and really, a shame upon modern civilization as a whole. I think someone should take up the gauntlet, and save the world from this evil regime. Someone else. Not me. I need to buy a bean bag. *munch munch*

[pabloh20 1]

I think the penalty is a gross injustice, and really, a shame upon modern civilization as a whole. I think someone should take up the gauntlet, and save the world from this evil regime. Someone else. Not me. I need to buy a bean bag. *munch munch*

Was that a Cav attempt at innuendo??

[Rainmaster 7]

You would need to be telepathic for that. How else could you differentiate an "error of judgement" from else? Remember MS in Monaco's qualification a few years back? You can have an opinion but no certainty regarding his intentions. As I said, we can btch about the stewards day and night but ther job is not simple. Same happens in all sports, from tennis to soccer. I would've not penalized anyone last GP but I don't have any responsibility in the sport...

Yar yar. Reckless driving should be punished, if the same guy is making 'errors in judgement' every race and ruining someone else's race or some such, then action needs to be taken.

So Rodders is a Hamilton fan in other words

Hamilton fan or not, he is right..

[The Rumble Strip 0]

No stats to back it up but yes I bet more penalties have been dished out this season than any other.

[cavallino 2]

Wreckless

That is possibly the most annoying misspelling I routinely encounter on the internet. Ho the bloody hell do you manage to add a silent character to a very easily spelt word?

[Rainmaster 7]

That is possibly the most annoying misspelling I routinely encounter on the internet. Ho the bloody hell do you manage to add a silent character to a very easily spelt word?

I don't know 'ho' I manage to do it

But it's a free service, and you get to point it out so it keeps everyone happy, here let me edit it for you.

Does it really annoy you though??

Edit: oddly enough if someone had asked me how to spell that word I would've said correctly, yet when typing...

[pabloh20 1]

I don't know 'ho' I manage to do it

But it's a free service, and you get to point it out so it keeps everyone happy, here let me edit it for you.

Does it really annoy you though??

Edit: oddly enough if someone had asked me how to spell that word I would've said correctly, yet when typing...

Count yourself lucky, I make typing mistakes, but I also have typing dlysexia and typing BOLLOCKS tourettes.

[Rainmaster 7]

Count yourself lucky, I make typing mistakes, but I also have typing dlysexia and typing BOLLOCKS tourettes.

Really? I always thought you just loved typing bollocks!

[pabloh20 1]

Really? I always thought you just loved typing bollocks!

No, it's an affliction bollock face.

[Rainmaster 7]

No, it's an affliction bollock face.

Yes I can definitely see you have a severe case of talkingtyping bollocks, it's almost none stop with you these days!

[pabloh20 1]

Yes I can definitely see you have a severe case of talkingtyping bollocks, it's almost none stop with you these days!

What do you mean 'these days' ????

[Rainmaster 7]

What do you mean 'these days' ????

It's a fair point, you've been mastering your..craft, since you were young. I must admit you certainly are the best at bollocks, tales of your bollocks have travelled up and down the country I'm sure