pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 It's a fair point, you've been mastering your..craft, since you were young. I must admit you certainly are the best at bollocks, tales of your bollocks have travelled up and down the country I'm sure Is it wrong to feel quite proud at that?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 Is it wrong to feel quite proud at that?? Ahh well everyone's gotta be good at something But no, it isn't, I bet lots of other people wish they had your bollocks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 Ahh well everyone's gotta be good at something But no, it isn't, I bet lots of other people wish they had your bollocks. True. Indeed, I wish lots more people can have my bollocks too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 True. Indeed, I wish lots more people can have my bollocks too Don't we all I mean don't we all wish people could have our bollocks as in my bollocks but it would be different for someone else because it would be their bollocks, so I'm not talking about your bollocks sorry, actually what am I talking about? Did you know: the word 'reckless' doesn't have a silent 'w'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 Don't we all I mean don't we all wish people could have our bollocks as in my bollocks but it would be different for someone else because it would be their bollocks, so I'm not talking about your bollocks sorry, actually what am I talking about? Did you know: the word 'reckless' doesn't have a silent 'w'? I did, but things like that don't annoy me, you know with not having any tendency towards anal wretentiveness Anyway, did you know that if the world stopped spinning now, the Taj Mahal would hit you in the back? I bet that's made you feel a whole lot better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainmaster 7 Report post Posted October 15, 2008 I did, but things like that don't annoy me, you know with not having any tendency towards anal wretentiveness Anyway, did you know that if the world stopped spinning now, the Taj Mahal would hit you in the back? I bet that's made you feel a whole lot better. It sure did. Anyway enough of this bollocks I have to go now, but it's been fun taking this topic off topic, which of course is on topic for you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YHR 0 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 I was wondering how you get your post counts so high. Now I know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Why do people seem to be happy with stewards re-writing races according to their whims. This post reinforces the allegations of steward bias. Thanks Maure. Of course, you are free to speak of your own happiness as are free to continue to avoiding admission that stewards' rulings last GP hurt Massa more than Hamilton. Misconstruing what I write is not free, however. It is taxed with my laughter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 That is why I used the term, "where the rubber meets the road". That is the fine line to walk, and one that will be always questioned in most cases. However the stewards have broadened their involvement to a degree that they are a bigger factor then the weather.Using the Fuji Grand Prix as an example Hamilton at start . Error in Judgment. Easy Decision, no penalty Massa spinning Hamilton, Maybe a little tricky, but has Massa ever done this before, No. No penalty, but if there was a history of this kind of thng, then maybe. Tougher call. Massa/Bourdais Massa was flying, Bourdais got in his way which he is entitled to. Bigger driver error on Massa side, Massa spun lost time, all good no penalty. Webber/Massa. Webber deliberately kept moving over on Massa forcing him deeper and deeper into the Pit lane. Hugh potential for a Major Crash. Drive through for Webber, That is they way I would have called it. So guys who think Massa was helped by the stewards are kidding themselves. Without that drive through for Massa, He would have been on the podium, and the WDC would be tied. Again the Stewards actions totally changed the result, and it favored Hamilton more then Massa. As I said before. You and I agree on every point on this matter. I would've handed no penalities either and Hamilton benefitted from stewards actions. You see my point, though. The issue of unfair advantage is a tricky one to judge. I think the example I gave of MS in Monaco is a clear one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 I know what you are saying, but it's still a tad tricky to call. When you start to use 'has the driver done this type of thing before' as part of the process, you are opening a can of worms. For example, Massa hasn't done this type of thing before, but who's to say that this isn't the start of doing that type of thing? Similarly, just because a driver has done it before, who's to say that this time he did it on purpose? Both Massa and Hamilton have done this sort of thing before. In fact, Massa kept at it throughout the race and Hamilton, well, just listen to the drivers complain. We didn't see anything new. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 No stats to back it up but yes I bet more penalties have been dished out this season than any other. More important would be to determine if the penalties handed out have had more bearing on the championship... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wez 0 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 No stats to back it up but yes I bet more penalties have been dished out this season than any other. Then again, Ive seen more cr@p driving this season than ever before! Like I've mentioned before, this seasons champion will most probably have a record low for a champions points tally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Record low points and wins... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Both Massa and Hamilton have done this sort of thing before. In fact, Massa kept at it throughout the race and Hamilton, well, just listen to the drivers complain. We didn't see anything new. I don't specifically remember Massa doing anything similar before, however maybe a better phrase would be 'he's not reknowned for doing it'. Lewis, at the moment, is just an aggressive driver who has no idea how to play the percentage game. As for drivers complaining, well that's pretty much all they ever do, possibly with the exception of Kimi. And actually we did see something new - Kimi didn't hit a wall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Massa in Barcelona last year, for example. Of course, at the time, lewisterics celebrated Massa's antics... Regarding drivers, one thing is that they complain, another that they complain about the same thing. And Kimi, well, he did well enough by not cashing on the opportunity to take Hamilton out on account of Hamilton's 'look-no-hands-just-balls' run off... wouldn't you say? With all this maliciousness thrown about by, guess who, the lewisterics and lewisteric British press, Kimi gave a lesson to all about sportmanship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Penalties shmenalties. Maybe old news and it might have been mentioned (but I've not seen it, so there!), but something that I really struggle trying to understand in terms of credibility, professionalism and trust......... .........there's many press/ezine articles out there questioning why we have a representative of the President of the FIA at F1 races - his name is Alan Donnelly. Alan looks over the stewards shoulders at each GP whilst he's not at his day job. His day job is Chairman of Sovereign Strategy, they sell solutions on strategic planning and consultation to some pretty big clients. Here's a selection of their clients over the last 2 years (their website no longer has Ferrari's name there, but for those that want to see it, there are archived versions that show them there until very recently): F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Massa in Barcelona last year, for example. Of course, at the time, lewisterics celebrated Massa's antics...Regarding drivers, one thing is that they complain, another that they complain about the same thing. And Kimi, well, he did well enough by not cashing on the opportunity to take Hamilton out on account of Hamilton's 'look-no-hands-just-balls' run off... wouldn't you say? With all this maliciousness thrown about by, guess who, the lewisterics and lewisteric British press, Kimi gave a lesson to all about sportmanship. You would agree, though, that Massa is not reknowned for that type of driving? Yep, the drivers do have an annoying holier than thou attitude at times, conveniently forgetting their own transgressions, which in some cases are many. I still maintain there have been very few drivers in F1 who would deliberately run into another driver, so no, I wouldn't say that Kimi did well by not cashing in on the opportunity to take out Lewis, if I understand you correctly. If you meant Kimi did well to avoid him through reflexes and skill, I would agree with that. To be honest, the only suggestion of maliciousness I heard was from Lewis himself, reading one of the links in one of the threads. Again, that comes down to drivers always moaning. Other than that, I really only read motorsport news on the bbc website and I don't read tabloids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Penalties shmenalties. Maybe old news and it might have been mentioned (but I've not seen it, so there!), but something that I really struggle trying to understand in terms of credibility, professionalism and trust......... .........there's many press/ezine articles out there questioning why we have a representative of the President of the FIA at F1 races - his name is Alan Donnelly. Alan looks over the stewards shoulders at each GP whilst he's not at his day job. His day job is Chairman of Sovereign Strategy, they sell solutions on strategic planning and consultation to some pretty big clients. Here's a selection of their clients over the last 2 years (their website no longer has Ferrari's name there, but for those that want to see it, there are archived versions that show them there until very recently): F Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medilloni 6 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Who knows, Med, but I don't think they actually care Dammit Paul, it took me ages to one-finger-type that sh!t - and you're right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Dammit Paul, it took me ages to one-finger-type that sh!t - and you're right I apologise profusely Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maure 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 You would agree, though, that Massa is not reknowned for that type of driving?Yep, the drivers do have an annoying holier than thou attitude at times, conveniently forgetting their own transgressions, which in some cases are many. I still maintain there have been very few drivers in F1 who would deliberately run into another driver, so no, I wouldn't say that Kimi did well by not cashing in on the opportunity to take out Lewis, if I understand you correctly. If you meant Kimi did well to avoid him through reflexes and skill, I would agree with that. To be honest, the only suggestion of maliciousness I heard was from Lewis himself, reading one of the links in one of the threads. Again, that comes down to drivers always moaning. Other than that, I really only read motorsport news on the bbc website and I don't read tabloids. What is Massa reknowned for? I would say there are no drivers that would deliberately run into another driver but, mainly, because they would be axed. These are the times of political correctness, softy hearts, and what-not sweet smelling crap. My comment on Kimi was a joke on your joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ayrton Senna 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Massa x Alonso in Spain last year was like the Bourdais incident: Alonso behaved as if Massa wasn't there. Normal racing incident caused by both drivers, with Alonso at more fault in my opinion. And I'd say the same for their battle in Nurburgring later that year. What Massa did to Hamilton at Fuji last week was worse. I don't think he did it intentionally - I agree with Rainmaster when he says that Massa just panicked for losing the position -, but I can understand the penalty and I think it was fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Mosley 2 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 I would say there are no drivers that would deliberately run into another driver but, mainly, because they would be axed. These are the times of political correctness, softy hearts, and what-not sweet smelling crap. Yes and it's a great pity. Though I think Lewis would do it anyway in a title decider. If Hamilton really did trick Massa into hitting him then it's very funny and ingenious. I'm all for such dastardly driving but I don't think he did. I could be wrong though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 What is Massa reknowned for?I would say there are no drivers that would deliberately run into another driver but, mainly, because they would be axed. These are the times of political correctness, softy hearts, and what-not sweet smelling crap. My comment on Kimi was a joke on your joke. Hmmm, well I wouldn't say it was for punting people off. Then again, my memory is not the best. Very true. I wasn't completely sure, so I erred on the side of caution.............for a change Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pabloh20 1 Report post Posted October 16, 2008 Yes and it's a great pity. Though I think Lewis would do it anyway in a title decider.If Hamilton really did trick Massa into hitting him then it's very funny and ingenious. I'm all for such dastardly driving but I don't think he did. I could be wrong though. I think the way he drove last race, he would lock his wheels up and miss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
