Bourdais 25 S. Penalty

[freaky2 1]

It's like a double negative

Meaning: don't try to get rid of me, it gets worse

[pabloh20 1]

It must have something to do with sexuality but don't ask me.

Ask Freud or Andr

[aleg8r 0]

all i have to say on turn 10 ..... see pic

[varda 0]

I think it was a racing incident, but I do think that probably Bourdais was to blame, because he's the one getting out of the boxes. I'm not saying it's easy to see Massa coming, but I think Massa was too focused on going faster and faster so he didn't see Bourdais either. Ok, I got lost, whose fault is it again? xD

Bourdais didnt see the give way sign.. so he just thought that he had preference.. that's normal!

but Massa didnt respect the security distance and he should have anticipate the move of bourdais..... they shouldn't have a driving licence!!

[Max Mosley 2]

But that's inverted...

Paul likes it back to front. That and upside down.

all i have to say on turn 10 ..... see pic

Hehehe Good first post. Welcome.

Bourdais didnt see the give way sign.. so he just thought that he had preference.. that's normal!

but Massa didnt respect the security distance and he should have anticipate the move of bourdais..... they shouldn't have a driving licence!!

Exactly! One of the funniest things in F1 that I remember was when SA were politely told that Ide shouldn't reapply for a super licence.

[Rainmaster 7]

Bahrain: Lewis Hamilton changed his trajectory several times during the start which is absolutely prohibited, but he was not sanctioned.

Schumi always did it and didn't get penalised either, which suggests other drivers could also do it and not get penalised. If another driver did it and did get penalised then you could argue the FIA favour Lewis, but that hasn't happened.

Monaco: LH frequently stepped over the continous line when exiting the pit lane which is totally prohibited, but he was not sanctioned in any way.

I think your wrong on this one I don't think he ever crossed the white line.

Nurburgring: The infamous crane.

You can't say this is the FIA bias because it was the track marshals decision to allow him to rejoin, it was Hammy who had the presence of mind to keep his engine running.

Hungaroring: Fernando Alonso lost 5 positions on the starting grid following the application of an inexistent rule and McLaren lost its constructor points earned during this race.

The FIA were able to see Alonso's naughtly moment where he blocked Hammy and gave him a dumb penalty, Lewis basically did the same thing as Alonso except for in a more subtle way. Yes this penalty was BS, but it's not a great example of favouritism.

Monza: LH placed his car diagonally towards the P1 box when positioning himself on the starting grid and made several trajectory changes without being sanctioned.

Other drivers have placed their cars to face the guy in front, and like I said above Schumi always did this kind of thing and no penalty.

Fuji: Look what Piotr's said and don't forget the collision between Webber and Vettel because of Hamilton hard braking during the SC which is strictly prohibited.

Tricky conditions, so that's arguable either way. If Webber and Vettel had been paying attention then that wouldn't have happened, but Hammy's moves were dumb, but a penalty would have been harsh.

Not in any of those incidents did Hamilton and another driver do the same thing, and only the other guy get penalised. For example if we were talking about Ferrari favouritism I could say that Bruno Senna got screwed for unsafe release in Spa whereas Massa didn't, so this is an example of favouritism. Except it isn't, the FIA are just terribly inconsistent.

[AleHop 0]

TBH I think Massa's move on Hamilton was unsporting, it reminded me the days of Schumacher, Villeneuve, Hill... A black flag should be ready for those situations. But Hamilton's move was way too dangerous, unnecessary and he's a repeat offender and a drive through isn't enough for that.

I'm not too sure about Massa and Bourdais, but Massa was stupid. He could have openened his turn and he would have finished ahead of both Bourdais and Vettel. Bourdais did nothing wrong for that penalty, in fact it could be Massa's fault.

I don't like penalties and stewards changing results and all that but I don't think it is only their fault this season. Drivers has some responsibility too.

[Quiet One 15]

all i have to say on turn 10 ..... see pic

They don't look like Hammy or Massa. They look too thin. Wait...if I turn my head this way...mmmmh...nope.

Just kidding. Welcome aboard

[jackgarrett 0]

this is the worst penalty i have seen in my life.

[Jez 0]

I don't think Bourdais deserved a penalty! From my view, Massa went into the apex too deep & hit Bourdais!

I actually have no idea what Bourdais could have done different in that situation.

this is the worst penalty i have seen in my life.

I almost see it as just a handy opportunity for the FIA to hand Ferrari another point.

[Piotr 0]

Yes they are, the point is that Massa had two wheels on the grass and two on the kerbs, which means 2/3 of his car was off the racetrack. That alone would be fine, but since he hit Hamilton he gets a penalty, which is fair enough.

No you are reading too much into a bad call by the stewards, actually. Your not the first person and you won't be the last to see something which isn't there.

Yeah, the other ones were stewards. That call was NEVER explained, BTW.

[Piotr 0]

It must have something to do with sexuality but don't ask me.

Ask Freud or Andr

[Oli 1]

First corner incident- Hammy drove like a total idiot. However I'd be reluctant to set a precedent for penalising first-corner incidents. Imagine how busy the stewards would be at Albert Park. Borderline for me.

FM/LH- Massa's fault but I don't think it was deliberate. Lewis was unlucky to lose so much ground, but I'd still say it's a racing incident- no penalty necessary.

FM/SB- Massa heavily to blame; should have been an instant drivethrough if not a grid drop. Bourdais penalty is the worst stewards' decision I've seen in 15 years of motorsport.

FM/MW- Hard to judge. Massa took a pretty unnecessary risk. Webber should have left him more room though. Racing incident- for once the stewards got it right.

I wish the stewards would all go and kill themselves. I hate them I hate them I hate them.

[Oli 1]

PS If Lewis and Felipe's roles had been reversed in their incident I suspect certain forum members would be arguing for Hamilton to be burnt at the stake. You know who you are......

[maure 1]

First corner incident- Hammy drove like a total idiot. However I'd be reluctant to set a precedent for penalising first-corner incidents. Imagine how busy the stewards would be at Albert Park. Borderline for me.

Good point. And, besides, it turns out it was Kova who hit Kimi...

FM/LH- Massa's fault but I don't think it was deliberate. Lewis was unlucky to lose so much ground, but I'd still say it's a racing incident- no penalty necessary.

There is a big BUT here. Hamilton had flatspotted his tyres and knew he would have to stop. He gambled on forcing Massa to make an error or both go out of the race. Hamilton tricked Massa into getting penalized. Sneaky but intelligent move.

Another issue was Hamilton's hunt of Alonso on the last lap. Pathetic and absurd. If he isn't getting a new engine in China, he put an extra lap on it for idiocy's sake.

FM/SB- Massa heavily to blame; should have been an instant drivethrough if not a grid drop. Bourdais penalty is the worst stewards' decision I've seen in 15 years of motorsport.

Race incident. Wrong decision.

FM/MW- Hard to judge. Massa took a pretty unnecessary risk. Webber should have left him more room though. Racing incident- for once the stewards got it right.

Race incident.

I wish the stewards would all go and kill themselves. I hate them I hate them I hate them.

Consider that they are still much much better than last season's.

[Oli 1]

I think this year is worse, TBH.

I see your point about the FM/LH incident, but the fault lies with the stewards more than with Hamilton on that one.

And you won't change my mind about Bourdais. Charlie Whiting reminded all the team bosses before the race (and before Singapore) that the car exiting the pits has right of way, although it seems Massa felt the rule didn't apply to him. Bourdais did everything right, Massa did everything wrong.

As a side note, it really annoys me that in that ING F1 survey thing they didn't have a "fix the dumb stewards" option. With the billions of dollars F1 burns through why are we still having a bunch of part-time amateurs who barely know how the sport works deciding the outcome of races?

[maure 1]

I thought I agreed with you on the Bourdais affair. I thought you meant that no penalty should've been handed out (which is my opinion). Are you saying that Massa should've gotten penalized?

[Oli 1]

I thought I agreed with you on the Bourdais affair. I thought you meant that no penalty should've been handed out (which is my opinion). Are you saying that Massa should've gotten penalized?

Personally I think he should have been. It's tricky because Massa lost out a lot more than Bourdais did. However I don't think that should affect the decision- certainly if Hamilton made the same move I think most people would agree a drivethrough was justified, particularly in the light of Charlie Whiting's repeated warnings to the teams.

Having said all that, I think no steward intervention at all in the race today would have been a nice thing to see, and I wouldn't have felt anyone was particularly hard done by if there were no penalties.

[goferrarigo 0]

Bourdais did have blue lights when exiting the pit lane, which i believe requires him to let the driver go past him, Though it's generally given for a laping car, it was still given to Bourdais so....

[Oli 1]

The blue light simply warns the driver there is a car approaching on track; it does not require them to yield.

[goferrarigo 0]

The blue light simply warns the driver there is a car approaching on track; it does not require them to yield.

Ohh so then his excuse of not seeing him is of no sense then right...

[Oli 1]

Ohh so then his excuse of not seeing him is of no sense then right...

I haven't heard him claim that he didn't see Massa, but I can't see how that matters anyway. The poit is that Massa knew Bourdais was there (you can watch the incident again and see Massa look to his right as he spots Bourdais coming out), and he simply ran him off the track as though he wasn't there.

I can't understand how anyone could fault Bourdais for Massa's hotheadedness.

[Jez 0]

James Allens opinion of the incident-

"Bourdais was exiting the pit lane and the pit lane exit light was blue to warn him that a car was coming down the straight. They were racing each other for position.

Bourdais came out of the pit lane, with Massa well over to the left on the run to the first corner. Massa drove like a man who felt that a Toro Rosso had no business being in his way and should let him pass.

Bourdais did everything he could to avoid a collision, even putting his inside wheels on the kerbs, but Massa came across and spun around him.

He might argue that he had his front wheels in front, but the team managers I spoke to after the race all said that FIA race director Charlie Whiting had briefed them in Singapore and again in Fuji that the car exiting the pits has right of way.

So once again, the stewards have gone against the advice Charlie has issued to teams, as they did with the penalty for Hamilton in Spa (where Whiting had told McLaren he thought Hamilton had acted fairly).

If the teams cannot believe the race director, what hope have the rest of us and the wider public got?

The FIA styles itself as the referee in this sport, but surely it cannot afford to keep sending out such mixed messages.

It confuses the public and makes some of them think that these things are being done for Ferrari

[Jez 0]

Another issue was Hamilton's hunt of Alonso on the last lap. Pathetic and absurd. If he isn't getting a new engine in China, he put an extra lap on it for idiocy's sake.

Hami gets a fresh engine next race, plus he still has his 'one free engine swap' card up his sleeve.

[Piotr 0]

James Allens opinion of the incident-

"Bourdais was exiting the pit lane and the pit lane exit light was blue to warn him that a car was coming down the straight. They were racing each other for position.

Bourdais came out of the pit lane, with Massa well over to the left on the run to the first corner. Massa drove like a man who felt that a Toro Rosso had no business being in his way and should let him pass.

Bourdais did everything he could to avoid a collision, even putting his inside wheels on the kerbs, but Massa came across and spun around him.

He might argue that he had his front wheels in front, but the team managers I spoke to after the race all said that FIA race director Charlie Whiting had briefed them in Singapore and again in Fuji that the car exiting the pits has right of way.

So once again, the stewards have gone against the advice Charlie has issued to teams, as they did with the penalty for Hamilton in Spa (where Whiting had told McLaren he thought Hamilton had acted fairly).

If the teams cannot believe the race director, what hope have the rest of us and the wider public got?

The FIA styles itself as the referee in this sport, but surely it cannot afford to keep sending out such mixed messages.

It confuses the public and makes some of them think that these things are being done for Ferrari's benefit.

Of the professionals I quizzed at the track, 99% were saying that this was in no way an offence by Bourdais