Domenicali Gives Title To Lewis?

[NeoData 0]

Because of all the silly excuses made by ferrari fans I've decided to post this and give them a more plausible excuse to back up the claim Lewis is undeserving of the title.

In Fuji Kimi had close to no chance of retaining his title He had a 27 point deficit to lewis and 20 to Massa with 30 point remaining yet he was allowed to finish ahead of Massa.

Great job Stefano keep up the good work it's decisons like this that will make it alot easier for the Ferrari brass to crawl back to Ross Brawn and beg him to take the job they would not give him when he asked for it.

Come to think of it this isnt an excuse its a flame directed at the people in charge at Ferrari.

Specificly Stefano Domenicali who is a great guy but seems to lack the guts to make big decisions when the time has arrived.

Yes team orders are not allowed but that doesn't mean you cannot persuade the driver to use common sense before a race.

[maure 1]

Nonsense. Both Hamilton and Massa were equally (un)deserving.

Is Ferrari screwing up? Sure... but just as much as McLaren and, in fact, for the very same reasons. Thus, the uncompetitive season and the random mess that brought about this outcome. More luck than skill, no matter how anyone looks at it.

[NeoData 0]

Nonsense. Both Hamilton and Massa were equally (un)deserving.

Is Ferrari screwing up? Sure... but just as much as McLaren and, in fact, for the very same reasons. Thus, the uncompetitive season and the random mess that brought about this outcome. More luck than skill, no matter how anyone looks at it.

Yes you are right about them both beeing equally underserving.

However it isn't nonsense since in this case teamplay would have handed Massa the title.

But now oddly enough now a team which has allways claimed to stand for driver equality has done a better job at teamwork then a team known for having a tradition of naming a number one driver.

I'm not slamming McLaren for this as I feel it is part of the game but for Ferrari not to do it when the time is obviously there is simply stunning.

Or do you think Barrichello or Irvine would ever have finished infront of Michael in a similar situation?

Hell even Kovolainen graciously moved over for Hamilton at Hockenheim while he was racing him for position and at that point he too still had a mathematical chance of winning the title as there were still 8 races left after that.

[Max Mosley 2]

They were completely different situations. Ferrari would have lost points overall had Kimi given up 3rd so that Massa could finish 6th; whereas Kova moving over for Lewis gained the team points, and they knew it would given Lewis's superior pace that weekend. I also suspect Lewis would have found a way past in Germany anyway. And to top it all off, in the end if Lewis had needed the extra point in Brazil it's very likely he would have got it and not been quite so conservative. Ferrari made a ton of mistakes during the season but I don't think this is a good example.

[Fed up 0]

You are clueless my friend. In Fuji Kimi came 3rd, Massa 8th (7th after the FIA's assistance) - The WCC was still at stake yet you somehow expected Stefano to ask Kimi to slow down to allow Massa to get 7th (6th on appeal) thereby losing the team valuable WCC points.

IMHO Lewis was deserving of the WDC. Massa was let down by his team yes, but he was also gifted a total of 7 points by the FIA - His ramming of Lewis in Fuji should also have resulted in a more severe penalty than a simple drive through. Glock also did his best to help Felipe by gambling on slick tyres just to gain a couple of places.

The WDC was close with the best driver winning it on merit.

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Because of all the silly excuses made by ferrari fans I've decided to post this and give them a more plausible excuse to back up the claim Lewis is undeserving of the title.

In Fuji Kimi had close to no chance of retaining his title He had a 27 point deficit to lewis and 20 to Massa with 30 point remaining yet he was allowed to finish ahead of Massa.

Great job Stefano keep up the good work it's decisons like this that will make it alot easier for the Ferrari brass to crawl back to Ross Brawn and beg him to take the job they would not give him when he asked for it.

Come to think of it this isnt an excuse its a flame directed at the people in charge at Ferrari.

Specificly Stefano Domenicali who is a great guy but seems to lack the guts to make big decisions when the time has arrived.

Yes team orders are not allowed but that doesn't mean you cannot persuade the driver to use common sense before a race.

dude...please man....please

[JayStorm 0]

It's a thought though isn't it?

But yeah, I don't blame Ferrari for anything like this.

I blame Ferrari for c#cking up with the fuel Rig in Singapore and giving him a poor engine in Hungary.

[Max Mosley 2]

It's a thought though isn't it?

Yes. We must congratulate NeoData.

[Fed up 0]

dude...please man....please

Brad, I've only just noticed your Avatar.

Class!

[NeoData 0]

You are clueless my friend. In Fuji Kimi came 3rd, Massa 8th (7th after the FIA's assistance) - The WCC was still at stake yet you somehow expected Stefano to ask Kimi to slow down to allow Massa to get 7th (6th on appeal) thereby losing the team valuable WCC points.

IMHO Lewis was deserving of the WDC. Massa was let down by his team yes, but he was also gifted a total of 7 points by the FIA - His ramming of Lewis in Fuji should also have resulted in a more severe penalty than a simple drive through. Glock also did his best to help Felipe by gambling on slick tyres just to gain a couple of places.

The WDC was close with the best driver winning it on merit.

You are just a clueless "my friend" I know exactly what happened but that still doesnt change the fact ferrari a team known for Team orders aka Teamwork passed by an opportunity to use them?

Had you even bothered to do the math you would have seen that ferrari would still have been leading Mclaren in the WCC even if they had done it.

This topic is about the sudden shocking change of culture at ferrari.

Now all of a sudden they do not name a number one driver and place winning the WCC over the WDC?

What with all the FIA assistence this year they could easily have told Kimi ro ram his pursuer off the track while he was at it.

I bet you are still putting of the celebrations because any moment now you expect the FIA to hand out a penalty to McLaren and Lewis for the way Heiki moved over for Lewis in Hockenheim.

You are spot on about Massa's team letting him down.

This isnt about who derves it most

I never said Lewis was undeserving If you all read my 1st post carefully you might have noticed I said this is for all the silly excuses making Ferrari fanboys.

If your gonna make an excuse atleast try to make it a plausible one.

The whole Mercedes paid Glock to move over discussion is absurd.

Hopefully this will help end all that BS.

@Muray same for you even if Kimi would have dropped back to allow massa to score more points they would still have had the lead in the WCC .

Never in my life of watching formula1 have I seen Ferrari pass up a chance like this and never have I ever heard them say they WCC is more important than the WDC.

So either this was an indirect vote of none confidence in Massa's title chances or they are seriously lacking in selfbelieve

As for lewis having something extra to pull out an overtake .Well we all have a right to our own version of reality

I think he has some serious nerves isues but hopefully now he will be over it and be a better driver for it.

[mikathegreat2 2]

Ferrari fans are a bunch of whingebags, I bet when I ring my Dad later on he'll be the same! "uuuuhhhhh Hamilton's a c*nt & a McLaren scumbag, Ron Dennis can kiss my arse" & so on for the next 30 mins-1 hour

[BradSpeedMan 6]

Brad, I've only just noticed your Avatar.

Class!

Let's just have a vodka martini and celebrate your man's success...

[BradSpeedMan 6]

You are just a clueless "my friend" I know exactly what happened but that still doesnt change the fact ferrari a team known for Team orders aka Teamwork passed by an opportunity to use them?

Had you even bothered to do the math you would have seen that ferrari would still have been leading Mclaren in the WCC even if they had done it.

This topic is about the sudden shocking change of culture at ferrari.

Now all of a sudden they do not name a number one driver and place winning the WCC over the WDC?

What with all the FIA assistence this year they could easily have told Kimi ro ram his pursuer off the track while he was at it.

I bet you are still putting of the celebrations because any moment now you expect the FIA to hand out a penalty to McLaren and Lewis for the way Heiki moved over for Lewis in Hockenheim.

You are spot on about Massa's team letting him down.

This isnt about who derves it most

I never said Lewis was undeserving If you all read my 1st post carefully you might have noticed I said this is for all the silly excuses making Ferrari fanboys.

If your gonna make an excuse atleast try to make it a plausible one.

The whole Mercedes paid Glock to move over discussion is absurd.

Hopefully this will help end all that BS.

@Muray same for you even if Kimi would have dropped back to allow massa to score more points they would still have had the lead in the WCC .

Never in my life of watching formula1 have I seen Ferrari pass up a chance like this and never have I ever heard them say they WCC is more important than the WDC.

So either this was an indirect vote of none confidence in Massa's title chances or they are seriously lacking in selfbelieve

As for lewis having something extra to pull out an overtake .Well we all have a right to our own version of reality

I think he has some serious nerves isues but hopefully now he will be over it and be a better driver for it.

Neodata, but Massa gained some places thru penalties handed out....He was only 8th at that time. How do you excpect Kimi to drop back and allow all the competitors to overtake him. What if Massa broke down after overtaking Kimi....???? Clearly this is a really absurd suggestion???

[Fed up 0]

You are just a clueless "my friend" I know exactly what happened but that still doesnt change the fact ferrari a team known for Team orders aka Teamwork passed by an opportunity to use them?

Had you even bothered to do the math you would have seen that ferrari would still have been leading Mclaren in the WCC even if they had done it.

This topic is about the sudden shocking change of culture at ferrari.

Now all of a sudden they do not name a number one driver and place winning the WCC over the WDC?

What with all the FIA assistence this year they could easily have told Kimi ro ram his pursuer off the track while he was at it.

I bet you are still putting of the celebrations because any moment now you expect the FIA to hand out a penalty to McLaren and Lewis for the way Heiki moved over for Lewis in Hockenheim.

You are spot on about Massa's team letting him down.

This isnt about who derves it most

I never said Lewis was undeserving If you all read my 1st post carefully you might have noticed I said this is for all the silly excuses making Ferrari fanboys.

If your gonna make an excuse atleast try to make it a plausible one.

The whole Mercedes paid Glock to move over discussion is absurd.

Hopefully this will help end all that BS.

@Muray same for you even if Kimi would have dropped back to allow massa to score more points they would still have had the lead in the WCC .

Never in my life of watching formula1 have I seen Ferrari pass up a chance like this and never have I ever heard them say they WCC is more important than the WDC.

So either this was an indirect vote of none confidence in Massa's title chances or they are seriously lacking in selfbelieve

As for lewis having something extra to pull out an overtake .Well we all have a right to our own version of reality

I think he has some serious nerves isues but hopefully now he will be over it and be a better driver for it.

I'm sorry mate, but you are wrong on this point. If Kimi was running 3rd and Massa 5th it would still be very difficult to engineer a pass - From 3rd to 8th is just plain ridiculous. Kimi did his best for the 'team' they won the WCC and his team mate lost out by a mere point and on the penultimate corner of the last lap - What else could Kimi have done?

Ferrari tried to be innovative with the traffic light system then reverted back to the lolipop to try and eradicate errors. If Massa had scored points in the first 2 gp's, hadn't driven like a novice at Silverstone/Monza and scored more points he would have won the WDC. The 'team' won the WCC and lost the WDC - sh!t happens

[NeoData 0]

Neodata, but Massa gained some places thru penalties handed out....He was only 8th at that time. How do you excpect Kimi to drop back and allow all the competitors to overtake him. What if Massa broke down after overtaking Kimi....???? Clearly this is a really absurd suggestion???

Considering the stuff Ferrari pulled off in the past and given the FIA's cordial relationship with Ferrari is it really so absurd?

I thought this would be right up their alley which is why I am mentioning it.

[maure 1]

The WDC was close with the best driver winning it on merit.

Please.

With the benefit of hindsight, Glock's position was a mirage.

But there and then, it wasn't.

When Vettel caught up to Hamilton, Vettel was fighting for position and Hamilton for the championship. When Hamilton lost out to a _Toro_Rosso_, he lost the championship on skill, simple as that. Vettel's merit is astonishing. Hamilton's, well... only chance, pure chance, gave the WDC back to him. That's not merit in any form whatsoever.

Deserving? As much as Massa's... and at least that guy beat them all.

[Max Mosley 2]

@Muray same for you even if Kimi would have dropped back to allow massa to score more points they would still have had the lead in the WCC .

Never in my life of watching formula1 have I seen Ferrari pass up a chance like this and never have I ever heard them say they WCC is more important than the WDC.

So either this was an indirect vote of none confidence in Massa's title chances or they are seriously lacking in selfbelieve

As for lewis having something extra to pull out an overtake .Well we all have a right to our own version of reality

I think he has some serious nerves isues but hopefully now he will be over it and be a better driver for it.

You weren't watching F1 very closely if you think you've hit upon Ferrari's biggest ever blunder. In fact you'll have a hard time convincing most people this was a blunder at all. At Fuji Ferrari and McLaren must have been about equal in the WCC and you're suggesting that it was outrageous of them not to sacrifice 3 WCC points to gain 1 WDC point. Lewis was obviously pacing himself all race and could easily have got 1 more point in any case.

Ferrari fans are a bunch of whingebags

I think you might be talking about Alonso fans, which might make sense of it for you!

When Vettel caught up to Hamilton, Vettel was fighting for position and Hamilton for the championship. When Hamilton lost out to a _Toro_Rosso_, he lost the championship on skill, simple as that. Vettel's merit is astonishing. Hamilton's, well... only chance, pure chance, gave the WDC back to him. That's not merit in any form whatsoever.

What drivel. Vettel is a fine driver but let's see how he progresses next year.

[Fed up 0]

Please.

With the benefit of hindsight, Glock's position was a mirage.

But there and then, it wasn't.

When Vettel caught up to Hamilton, Vettel was fighting for position and Hamilton for the championship. When Hamilton lost out to a _Toro_Rosso_, he lost the championship on skill, simple as that. Vettel's merit is astonishing. Hamilton's, well... only chance, pure chance, gave the WDC back to him. That's not merit in any form whatsoever.

Deserving? As much as Massa's... and at least that guy beat them all.

What you conveniently ignore is the influence Kubica had on Vettel's pass. Vettel is very good in the rain, I accept, but it is unlikely he would have attempted a pass on Lewis with 5 laps or so to go to the end of the race. We will never know what effect Kubica had on Lewis going wide, but he lost the time immediately after Kubica had overtaken him. Why Kubica had to do that, at that point in the race is a mystery to us all.

You are right regarding Glock's position being a mirage. The flipside is that he was actually trying to help felipe as his natural position, on pace, was behind lewis. Why he chose to gamble is another mystery that is ultimately irrelevant.

Lewis was lucky to win it, but would have been unlucky to lose it.

[NeoData 0]

You weren't watching F1 very closely if you think you've hit upon Ferrari's biggest ever blunder. In fact you'll have a hard time convincing most people this was a blunder at all. At Fuji Ferrari and McLaren must have been about equal in the WCC and you're suggesting that it was outrageous of them not to sacrifice 3 WCC points to gain 1 WDC point. Lewis was obviously pacing himself all race and could easily have got 1 more point in any case.

I think you might be talking about Alonso fans, which might make sense of it for you!

Well from what ive seen sofar it has been mostly Ferrari fans but you probably right about the monobrow mobsquad

For those of you who still don't get it perhaps I should have added in the discribtion of this topic "Beware Topic constains high dosis of Sarcasm"

[Max Mosley 2]

OK. It was fun too!

[maure 1]

What drivel. Vettel is a fine driver but let's see how he progresses next year.

Wow. You truly are a goner.

When Vettel passed Hamilton, that was it for Hamilton. Are you saying Hamilton didn't care? Or perhaps, that Hamilton didn't put everything he had to win the WDC by preventing Vettel from passing him? Hamilton lost right there and then because he didn't have the skill to take on Vettel who was driving on a much much inferior car.

Vettel has had a phenomenal season. But Brazil is, for me, a before and an after for the guy. What he did to Hamilton, and at this time and place and with all that there was to lose for Hamilton, was unbelievable. Vettel beat the current WDC, simple as that.

What you conveniently ignore is the influence Kubica had on Vettel's pass. Vettel is very good in the rain, I accept, but it is unlikely he would have attempted a pass on Lewis with 5 laps or so to go to the end of the race. We will never know what effect Kubica had on Lewis going wide, but he lost the time immediately after Kubica had overtaken him. Why Kubica had to do that, at that point in the race is a mystery to us all.

You are right regarding Glock's position being a mirage. The flipside is that he was actually trying to help felipe as his natural position, on pace, was behind lewis. Why he chose to gamble is another mystery that is ultimately irrelevant.

Lewis was lucky to win it, but would have been unlucky to lose it.

What you conveniently ignore is what I just said to Murray. Put aside the heroworship and consider the merits of what Vettel did and what Hamilton didn't have the skill to do. Put yourself in their place, curve after curve, long after Kubica had nothing to do with those two.

Glock's gamble was quite understandable. Who knows how much rain would fall. A little less rain on certain parts of the cricuit and he walks away with a fourth. A reasonable gamble by all means when you have nothing to lose.

[Max Mosley 2]

Read the other thread where you posted this drivel, Maure.

[freaky2 1]

Wow. You truly are a goner.

When Vettel passed Hamilton, that was it for Hamilton. Are you saying Hamilton didn't care? Or perhaps, that Hamilton didn't put everything he had to win the WDC by preventing Vettel from passing him? Hamilton lost right there and then because he didn't have the skill to take on Vettel who was driving on a much much inferior car.

Vettel has had a phenomenal season. But Brazil is, for me, a before and an after for the guy. What he did to Hamilton, and at this time and place and with all that there was to lose for Hamilton, was unbelievable. Vettel beat the current WDC, simple as that.

Ok, I think they might be right maure, and also Vettel was going better in the Toro Rosso at that time, for whatever reason. Still, that he overtook Hamilton was a great move, what with the rain and everything. And Hamilton wouldn't have yielded the position Glock or no Glock, so that makes it a great pass from Vettel and one that has opened our eyes to him, if we hadn't alredy opened them.

What you conveniently ignore is what I just said to Murray. Put aside the heroworship and consider the merits of what Vettel did and what Hamilton didn't have the skill to do. Put yourself in their place, curve after curve, long after Kubica had nothing to do with those two.

Glock's gamble was quite understandable. Who knows how much rain would fall. A little less rain on certain parts of the cricuit and he walks away with a fourth. A reasonable gamble by all means when you have nothing to lose.

Please, leave Hamilton's skill alone, as the circumstances could have played a big part. It's just too extreme.

Agree about Glock, of course.

[Fed up 0]

Wow. You truly are a goner.

When Vettel passed Hamilton, that was it for Hamilton. Are you saying Hamilton didn't care? Or perhaps, that Hamilton didn't put everything he had to win the WDC by preventing Vettel from passing him? Hamilton lost right there and then because he didn't have the skill to take on Vettel who was driving on a much much inferior car.

Vettel has had a phenomenal season. But Brazil is, for me, a before and an after for the guy. What he did to Hamilton, and at this time and place and with all that there was to lose for Hamilton, was unbelievable. Vettel beat the current WDC, simple as that.

What you conveniently ignore is what I just said to Murray. Put aside the heroworship and consider the merits of what Vettel did and what Hamilton didn't have the skill to do. Put yourself in their place, curve after curve, long after Kubica had nothing to do with those two.

Glock's gamble was quite understandable. Who knows how much rain would fall. A little less rain on certain parts of the cricuit and he walks away with a fourth. A reasonable gamble by all means when you have nothing to lose.

You always make discussions personal...there is no need, Lewis is the WDC so know matter what you say that is now a fact!

Of all the drivers yesterday I feared Vettel the most. That said, I still don't think he would have got past Lewis without Lewis' mistake, which conveniently happened after Kubica had overtaken him. Lewis didn't have the pace to overtake Vettel because he was faster.

Glock's gamble was weird and designed soley to gain position from Lewis. rain was forecast and the front runners had changed to intermediates. Were the gambling to win? were they gambling to get more points to overhaul Renault? Were they gambling to stave off the threat from STR? I guess only they will know?

Mclaren c#cked the raced up with their conservative approach. F1 is very difficult when a team is asked to do anything other than fight for the win. Had it not rained Lewis would have comfortably beaten Vettel to 4th place.

Maure, it's the close season, I'm ecstatic that Lewis has won the WDC. I don't really want to play childish games as the season is over and the result known.

[maure 1]

What do you mean "they may be right"? Right about what?

Vettel did pass Hamilton. Hamilton was left out of the WDC. In hindsight, it made no difference. There and then, it meant win or lose.

I know the heroworshippers must be hallucinating with pain but, hey, that's what happened.