Hamilton Vs Vettel, See The Video

[maure 1]

We all assume it's the 'right thing' for a driver to serve an apprenticeship in a banger at the back of the field, then when they amaze others, and stopped over-driving to compensate for driving their BOS, they get the climb up the ladder to the best car, hopefully. At least most of F1 history tells us that's the norm.

Seb Vet's looking pretty special, and as long as he doesn't stagnate if Adrian Newboy designs a dog in the future, then he'll be fine. But who's had it best out of Seb and Lew? Difficult to answer, none of us know how others would have coped with being with a race winning car the way Hamster has (i'm not saying he's coped well, but he has coped!), and would the same situation have been as good for Seb? I don't think so (only my opinion), but more due to the way Hamster was 'groomed' for such a long time, along with all the pressure of having set goals on the motorsport route from a very early age, which Seb probably hasn't had to the same extent.

Seb isn't enslaved, he's just on the ladder that we've seen others on before - and anyway, there's something special seeing a young guy in an 'underdog'(ish) team squezing the metaphorical nuts off it.

Am I still on thread?

Yep. Vettel is going through the steps. No free lunch there. Gotta earn it. Respect.

Oh yeah, maure, conspiracy theories and this thread. He just likes to wind people up Freaky - at least I'd hope that's what it is, there's no other reason for being like two pods in a pea; a slightly curious quirk of nature, fascinates you for two minutes, then it just gets on yer t1ts

What conspiracy theories?

[dribbler 6]

You just know that maure w*nks senseless over Hamilton's picture.

[Max Mosley 2]

I'm more a Nico man myself. Have a thing for blond girls.

Hmm, Maure. One minute you're warning Hamilton (so kind, I'm sure) that he's getting screwed by bad advice; the next minute you're telling us he's had it easier than anyone else in the sport's history. But isn't all this a distraction? You forgot to reply to me earlier.

[maure 1]

So, on with the thread.

Murray's magical setup got nowhere. Hamilton kept Vettel behind at the start and on the wet. Hamilton couldn't avoid blowing the championship on the rain at the end of the race.

Cavallino's magical car that is slower yet faster yet slower also sunk. Faster on lap 1? Yep. On lap 2? Yep. On lap 10? Yep. On lap 35? Yep. On lap 59? No way, claims Cavallino in his usual self-contradictory fashion.

Anyone's got some other alternative to the choke?

[maure 1]

You just know that maure w*nks senseless over Hamilton's picture.

Your experience on these matters is clearly ahead of all of us...

[dribbler 6]

Hamilton couldn't avoid blowing the championship on the rain at the end of the race.

Read the news, Lewis is champion. F*ck wit.

[Max Mosley 2]

I'm watching the race now, and Vettel's pace relative to Lewis depended on how wet the track was, like I said all along. McLaren were running very low downforce settings as you can see from the speed trap data, and the STR is a very fast car in those conditions, so much so that Alonso said it was no surprise when they won Monza (with _even_ Bourdais qualifying 4th).

Back to Interlagos: during the first half lap on the wet but drying track, Vettel overtook Alonso at the start, and then flew right past the helpless McLaren of Kova on the straight and was right up behind Lewis when the SC came out. On the first lap after the SC (lap 5) Vettel was 0.2s faster than Lewis, then Lewis went 0.2s and then 0.3s faster, by which point everyone started to pit for dry tyres again. While this was going on, Bourdais in the other STR was all over the back of Kova. So when it was wet early on, both STRs were probably quicker than both McLarens. Only as the track dried out did the McLarens start to pull away.

The lap times when Lewis was passed by Vettel until the end of the race were back to those early, wet times (despite the much lower fuel loads), which is no real surprise because it was raining significantly by then, whereas after the SC pitted it hadn't rained for about 20 minutes and they'd done 5 laps to dry the racing line out. So it's quite simple: the McLaren couldn't keep up in those conditions.

Even if Lewis did tense up, which isn't the case imho given the above, then he's in fine company with Schumacher. That flaw, which is surely indisputable, never stopped Schumacher being regarded as one of the best ever.

Regarding McLaren's apparently contradictory statements, I suspect the different team members are talking about different stages of the race. Before it started to rain heavily again I think the team told Hamilton not to race Vettel too much. Then, after Glock didn't pit and the rain didn't come as soon as they expected, of course it was a different story....until a lap later when they realised it was raining enough, finally.

Fun fun fun! Another Lewisteric post for me to debunk, if only I wouldn't ignore it all day. Your delusional capabilities keep me laughing on my research, which _even_ I publish in papers. You make me smile.

[maure 1]

I'm more a Nico man myself. Have a thing for blond girls.

Another wanking expert...

Hmm, Maure. One minute you're warning Hamilton (so kind, I'm sure) that he's getting screwed by bad advice; the next minute you're telling us he's had it easier than anyone else in the sport's history.

It is all there.

You can deny that Hamilton got into the sport with a show of favoritism nowhere seen in the history of the sport. Cavallino is working on that one but note that without any success at all.

Regarding what you call "bad advice", it is the price to pay for being gifted what you dont deserve. I've seen it many times over the years in my profession. Well-connected people are given jobs that they haven't earned and eventually fckup big time. To make matters worse, they incur in debts that they cannot afford. That's why I have spoken about this since Monaco last year. It's all quite sad. The kid could've done quite well without all this crap. Pity, truly. Now he walks the knive, day in, day out. Total luck saved his arse this time... it's all so unnecessary.

But isn't all this a distraction? You forgot to reply to me earlier.

Funny, I thought it was you how run away after the "magical setup" fiasco.

Bring it on, though. What else have you come up with?

[maure 1]

Read the news, Lewis is champion. F*ck wit.

More insults. Good to see the lewisterics falling apart.

[maure 1]

I see, Murray. You have moved on from the "magical setup" and "magical pitstop" thingy. Ok.

So, now you claim that, even though Hamilton kept Vettel behind in the rain at the start, he failed to do so later is due to... what again?

Regarding the contradictions from McLaren, they simply show that someone realized quickly that they had to start lying for Hamilton. The script didn't reach Hamilton in time, though, and we are where we are.

[Max Mosley 2]

You still haven't read it. Without the safety car, I have no doubt Vettel would have been past Lewis at the start of the race as well He was faster then too.

And I disagree re the contradictions. I think it's largely a misunderstanding.

[maure 1]

You still haven't read it. Without the safety car, I have no doubt Vettel would have been past Lewis at the start of the race as well He was faster then too.

Hamilton did hold Vettel for quite a while at the start. In fact, Vettel not only did not get past him, Hamilton pulled away.

When it mattered most, however, it didn't take much for Hamilton to make a mistake and Vettel to get through. Vettel didn't need the "magical speed" you are now holding on too. All he did was to put pressure and take advantage of Hamilton's worsening performance.

Perhaps the most amusing thing about all this is that you don't realize that you asume that Hamilton needs a superior car to get anywhere. It says a lot.

And I disagree re the contradictions. I think it's largely a misunderstanding.

Naturally.

[Oli 1]

There's a lot of sore losers around here. And a lot of sore winners as well.

I love the off-season

[freaky2 1]

There's a lot of sore losers around here. And a lot of sore winners as well.

I love the off-season

Sore winners is a cool way to describe them!

[Fed up 0]

8 pages of nothingness. What really is the point of this thread Maure? Why are you dwelling on the past? Does it really matter that Vettel owned Lewis and was the better driver on the day? I don't get what you are trying to prove. Lewis is the WDC, that is not goint to change because he was owned by the young vettel.

I'm not sure you have all faculties, this thread is just plain weird.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

I love the off-season

Yeah let's talk about guns, religion and global warming....

[Max Mosley 2]

Hamilton did hold Vettel for quite a while at the start. In fact, Vettel not only did not get past him, Hamilton pulled away.

No, he only started to pull away when it was drying out, 7 laps into the race and 20 minutes after it last rained. Until then Vettel was faster.

When it mattered most, however, it didn't take much for Hamilton to make a mistake and Vettel to get through. Vettel didn't need the "magical speed" you are now holding on too. All he did was to put pressure and take advantage of Hamilton's worsening performance.

In fact the conditions worsened for his car, so of course he was slower than Vettel. His car wasn't fit for the conditions and I don't think there was much he could do.

Perhaps the most amusing thing about all this is that you don't realize that you asume that Hamilton needs a superior car to get anywhere.

Not at all. He was competing with a faster car in those conditions.

Naturally.

Yeah. It's quite easy for misunderstanding because completely different instructions were given every lap, as the circumstances kept changing.

There's a lot of sore losers around here. And a lot of sore winners as well.

I love the off-season

Loser.

[freaky2 1]

Yeah let's talk about guns, religion and global warming....

Hadn't the global warming thread become as repetitive as this one? (only in 20 pages and with less insults) XD

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Hadn't the global warming thread become as repetitive as this one? (only in 20 pages and with less insults) XD

I think the majority of experts would agree

[maure 1]

8 pages of nothingness. What really is the point of this thread Maure? Why are you dwelling on the past? Does it really matter that Vettel owned Lewis and was the better driver on the day? I don't get what you are trying to prove. Lewis is the WDC, that is not goint to change because he was owned by the young vettel.

I'm not sure you have all faculties, this thread is just plain weird.

It is indeed true that some people find it weird to talk about the race that closed (and decided) the season or about racing in general.

Most of the 8 pages are indeed the efforts of those people and their post are just personal attacks and insults, heroworship,.. fun stuff but irrelevant to racing.

I see that a couple of posters are now throwing "sore winner/losers" excuses as if that, somehow, can also be a replacement for a talk about the race and, in particular, the last show of skill of the season. I, myself, don't see the topic of this thread having to do at all with losers or winners. But, then again, I don't give a hoot who wins or loses.

The fact is that it was a largely boring race. As far as passing, for example, Vettel on Hamilton and Alonso on Kova are about the only two things one can talk about. There is, of course, Hamilton on Fisichella if someone wants to dig deep.

Anyway, how weird indeed are those that bring up such strange topics as racing? Let's hunt them down.

[maure 1]

Yeah let's talk about guns, religion and global warming....

Funny thought... considering what I just posted.

[Fed up 0]

It is indeed true that some people find it weird to talk about the race that closed (and decided) the season or about racing in general.

Most of the 8 pages are indeed the efforts of those people and their post are just personal attacks and insults, heroworship,.. fun stuff but irrelevant to racing.

I see that a couple of posters are now throwing "sore winner/losers" excuses as if that, somehow, can also be a replacement for a talk about the race and, in particular, the last show of skill of the season. I, myself, don't see the topic of this thread having to do at all with losers or winners. But, then again, I don't give a hoot who wins or loses.

The fact is that it was a largely boring race. As far as passing, for example, Vettel on Hamilton and Alonso on Kova are about the only two things one can talk about. There is, of course, Hamilton on Fisichella if someone wants to dig deep.

Anyway, how weird indeed are those that bring up such strange topics as racing? Let's hunt them down.

Your posts are not about racing, you are labouring the point that Lewis choked, that Vettel owned him, that Lewis is underserving, but it is of no consequence because he has won the WDC.

Anyway, I guess I'm fueling this debate.

[Kopite Girl 0]

I think what's meant to be said here is nobody is getting anywhere and none of you are going to give in/back down, and its just going to keep on going in circles....

[Jean Todt 4]

As I said before, he thinks the forums are full of idiots!

So, he thinks his son is an idiot too?

[maure 1]

No, he only started to pull away when it was drying out, 7 laps into the race and 20 minutes after it last rained. Until then Vettel was faster.

Why wasn't he able to pass Hamilton then but he could later? Choke.

You measure Vettel's speed by his ability to get through an incorporeal McLaren, perhaps.

In fact the conditions worsened for his car, so of course he was slower than Vettel. His car wasn't fit for the conditions and I don't think there was much he could do.

Even though in those same conditions it worked perfectly fine at the start of the race...

Not at all. He was competing with a faster car in those conditions.

Yep. Hamilton did have the fastest car. Much faster, as a matter of fact. From start to end of the race.

That's the point.

Yeah. It's quite easy for misunderstanding because completely different instructions were given every lap, as the circumstances kept changing.

Just imagine when they hear in McLaren about your "magical setup", "magical pitstop", and "incorporeal McLaren". The misunderstadings they will be able to spin.