Fed up

What's Not To Like

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Well, it's true: just about anyone handles the pressure of a title decider better than MS. But it is pressure from a quick team mate that Alonso can't cope with!

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Well, there is a greek saying that (roughly) says, a guy is "full of praise for his house, so that it won't fall on his head" :lol: .

I have enormously more respect for Nando these days than before, but as far as the "pressure thing" goes, I believe last year he showed just the opposite.

His driving was greatly affected and made mistakes very often that eventually cost him the WDC!

This year, he was a champ though!

Besides MS was in his 3rd-4th year in the sport when he left Benetton, so hardly the driver he later went on to be!

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I'd say Jenson's driving style is a lot smoother, which he couldn't execute in a poor car, hence the reason Rubens out performed him over the course of the season.

If you put them both in a McLaren say then I would assume Jenson would get the better results.

Edited by Team Formula One

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I don't know if this has been discused earlier, but let me ask, was Jenson's smooth driving responsible for him to struggle with Bridgestones? I mean, like bringing the tyre tempratures up, etc.

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Well, it's true: just about anyone handles the pressure of a title decider better than MS. But it is pressure from a quick team mate that Alonso can't cope with!

Alonso is a fantastic driver, but you seem to be spot on with that. We all know Kimi cares least about his team mate, let us wait and see how Lewis can handle if Kova gets quicker as he promised.

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I don't think Alonso handles the pressure better than Schumi, actually. I just found it curious that Briatore would say that. I mean, if he just wanted to compliment Nando, he could have chosen something that didn't sound that preposterous. Maybe we can't see some things about the drivers they do. Maybe Briatore is talking out of his a## as usual. I do agree with him in one point, though. Alonso learns from his past mistakes. Maybe it takes some time. But this year's Nando handled adversity so much better than last year.

And learning from mistakes is more crucial for being a champion than being a cheater, or a prick (both qualities that Nando has, not meant as a dig to Lewis or MS...well, at least not meant just that :P ).

I say that because there's an over focusing on the winners bad traits as if they were important. MS was a cheater, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Nando was a whiner, so what? That was the mark of a true champion. Lewis was a prick, so what? Etc., etc. I think those were all bad traits. And they won because of their virtues: Sheer talent, speed and determination in the case of MS; Hard work, determination and cunning in the case of Nando; Raw speed, determination and aggressiveness (the good part of his aggressiveness) and a fair amount of luck in the last race for Lewis, ditto for Kimi last year.

Aye aye.

Well, there is a greek saying that (roughly) says, a guy is "full of praise for his house, so that it won't fall on his head" :lol: .

I have enormously more respect for Nando these days than before, but as far as the "pressure thing" goes, I believe last year he showed just the opposite.

His driving was greatly affected and made mistakes very often that eventually cost him the WDC!

This year, he was a champ though!

Besides MS was in his 3rd-4th year in the sport when he left Benetton, so hardly the driver he later went on to be!

I agree, mostly.

I don't know if this has been discused earlier, but let me ask, was Jenson's smooth driving responsible for him to struggle with Bridgestones? I mean, like bringing the tyre tempratures up, etc.

That's one theory, yeah. I think with a poor handling car you have to be able to 'rag it', which is something that Button is probably lacking due to his natural smoothness (if he tried to 'rag it' he would end up going slower because he'd be driving against his instincts). Rubens on the other hand, is more aggressive which allows him to push the car more if it handles like crap. In a good handling car (and usually when it's wet) though Button's style is probably more effective, and that allows his talent to shine through more.

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I don't know if this has been discused earlier, but let me ask, was Jenson's smooth driving responsible for him to struggle with Bridgestones? I mean, like bringing the tyre tempratures up, etc.

We keep hearing that Jenson only shines in a smooth car because he is a smooth driver. I do agree with that but...he has been driving cars with crappy handling for how long now? He could have learnt to adapt his style a little bit, right? If he lacks that flexibility, then he is doomed. Not too great of a driver if he can only shine in the perfect car.

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We keep hearing that Jenson only shines in a smooth car because he is a smooth driver. I do agree with that but...he has been driving cars with crappy handling for how long now? He could have learnt to adapt his style a little bit, right? If he lacks that flexibility, then he is doomed. Not too great of a driver if he can only shine in the perfect car.

Seems rigth. Some argue here that Jenson could have been as good as Lewis, if given the same car, but his stay in Williams, Benetton/Reno proves otherwise. He simply took time to adapt and build up speed. I acknowledge he trashed JV and Sato, but JV was carrying more load in his head and Sato was driving like he was having an itch.

Just my opinion. Yes Andres, he can only shine in a perfect car.

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Who can shine in a bad one though.

I don't agree Button is a good wet weather driver, as to the best of my knowledge his only decent performance in those conditions came in the race that he won.

We've had a number of wet races since then and he bins it more often than not.

Edited by Team Formula One

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We keep hearing that Jenson only shines in a smooth car because he is a smooth driver. I do agree with that but...he has been driving cars with crappy handling for how long now? He could have learnt to adapt his style a little bit, right? If he lacks that flexibility, then he is doomed. Not too great of a driver if he can only shine in the perfect car.

:yes:

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We keep hearing that Jenson only shines in a smooth car because he is a smooth driver. I do agree with that but...he has been driving cars with crappy handling for how long now? He could have learnt to adapt his style a little bit, right? If he lacks that flexibility, then he is doomed. Not too great of a driver if he can only shine in the perfect car.

Yeah, that's why most people don't rate him as highly as Kimi, Nando, Lewis etc (well not Lewis of course, everyone knows he lucked into a decent drive :lol: ).

Who can shine in a bad one though.

I don't agree Button is a good wet weather driver, as to the best of my knowledge his only decent performance in those conditions came in the race that he won.

We've had a number of wet races since then and he bins it more often than not.

The great drivers like Senna and Schumi and Prost and so on, and maybe even Vettel in the modern era. It must be a lot more difficult to shine in the modern era of Formula One though...

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Expecting Jens to adapt to a bad car is akin to asking the late, great Pavarotti to rap for a living. He's a great driver in a great car. He's lacklustre in a bad one. People have hired him knowing that. If they want the best of JB then they need to give him the best ride they can build. It's a no-brainer.

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Expecting Jens to adapt to a bad car is akin to asking the late, great Pavarotti to rap for a living. He's a great driver in a great car. He's lacklustre in a bad one. People have hired him knowing that. If they want the best of JB then they need to give him the best ride they can build. It's a no-brainer.

The late, great Pavarotti chose in his later years to torture us with versions of popular songs, he sang with Mariah Carey and Zucchero, for George's sake!

So yeah, he adapted himself too. Again, I am not disreputing the fact that he might be a great driver in a great car, I just think that if the guy can't improve in a lacklustre one, or push to improve that car to an acceptable level for him, then he is pretty much screwed.

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The late, great Pavarotti chose in his later years to torture us with versions of popular songs, he sang with Mariah Carey and Zucchero, for George's sake!

So yeah, he adapted himself too. Again, I am not disreputing the fact that he might be a great driver in a great car, I just think that if the guy can't improve in a lacklustre one, or push to improve that car to an acceptable level for him, then he is pretty much screwed.

Not only that but I bet Pav' blinged it up at weekends around his bitches and ho's whilst listening to Cyprus Hill.

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The late, great Pavarotti chose in his later years to torture us with versions of popular songs, he sang with Mariah Carey and Zucchero, for George's sake!

So yeah, he adapted himself too. Again, I am not disreputing the fact that he might be a great driver in a great car, I just think that if the guy can't improve in a lacklustre one, or push to improve that car to an acceptable level for him, then he is pretty much screwed.

I would tend to agree with you if it weren't for the hard fact that modern F1 cars are hard to mess with. Nando's late 2008 revival was all down to rule bending upgrades, [not illegal] in the engine department. Hardly a driver adaption. Vettel too, benefited from a re-engineered power plant and better aero. Once again, not driver enhancement. Have you seen how badly Kubica goes of fthe boil when the car is misbehaving? Or Kimi for that matter? How good is Hamilton on the wrong choice of tyre? I watched Mansell wring the neck off a normally aspirated Ferrari to catch and pass Prost in a turbo-charged Renault at the Hungaroring many moons ago. Those options are virtually extinct now. Frank Williams always said that Nigel would win the WDC as soon as he managed to build a car the Brummy couldn't break - Frank did and Nige brought home the bacon. That sort of enterprise has all been neutered by over-regulation now.

I would like to hear from JB's engineers and tyre people why Bridgestone boots don't seem to suit him. It's never been publicy discussed and it probably never will be - it was just one of the myriad nightmares with that particular car. Still, I'm going to try my darndest to find out why. I have a theory that JB's chassis had slightly different dimensions to RB's - it's a theory. Whether there is a technical reason or not, if you turn up at every race knowing you have a major battle on your hands before you pull your suit on, your confidence is dragging in the dust. The other point is that JB entered 2008 knowing it was a transitional season, [hardly inspiring] and probably had a contract in his pocket at an early stage. On the other hand, Ruebens must have known he was history if he didn't manage an extra tenth or two over his team mate. Bottom line - Honda, Fry and Brawn clearly showed their faith in this much-maligned driver and have put a mega buck package together to retain him. That does it for me.

Edited by Insider

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Not convinced Senna and Schumi had bad cars at the start of their career and thus their talent was easier to pick up.

Alonso is the best example I can come up with of a driver in a poor car, making a name for himself and then furthering his career.

I agree it

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:lol::lol:

Correct. Yet arrogance is also when a camera is shoved so far in your face, its coming out of your arse.

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Not only that but I bet Pav' blinged it up at weekends around his bitches and ho's whilst listening to Cyprus Hill.

Wouldn't that be Cypr-ess :lol: ??

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Wouldn't that be Cypr-ess :lol: ??

Yuss, sorry.

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