Honda Says Goodbye?

[f1chick 0]

nooooooooo very high poss Jenson wont be driving next year well that sucks i'm going to be highly depressed now all day

Just when they started to think they would be competative aswell

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

From Grandprix.com:

The FIA has reacted to the news of Honda's withdrawal with a letter to the teams saying that its tender processes are now complete and that Cosworth, together with Xtrac and Ricardo Transmissions will supply a complete Formula 1 power train beginning in 2010.

The cost of these deals will be a $2.4m downpayment plus $8m a year for the 2010, 2011 and 2012 seasons. These prices are based on four teams signing up for the engines and include 30,000 km of testing. The annual cost will reduce if more teams take up the option. Neither the engines nor the transmissions will be badged. This gives teams the option of using the standard engines, building an identical engines themselves, having been supplied with the technical specifications or they can continue with their own engines but with agreement to accept parity with the standard engines. Teams will still have to use the standard transmissions.

The FIA says that this will enable the independent teams to survive and help teams if they need to replace departing manufacturers. There will then be a new state-of-the-art high tech engine, which could be in Formula 1 as early as 2013 if the car industry has sufficiently recovered by that point. Teams have until December 11 to decide what to do but the FIA says that if fewer than four teams go for standard engines the price will go up but will still be available.

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So Muzza, looks like you will get your "spec" series after all....

[Medilloni 6]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322

I am so happy :D

I'm sorry you are Cav . Maybe your opinion of Honda is pretty low (as is mine, probably for different reasons), but the thought of so many dedicated people with the possibility of losing their jobs (especially at this time of year) is bloody sad.

I really hope Fry and Braun can find a way to run competitively next year, whatever our opinions of other teams, this is a bad signal for potential sponsors making it harder still for teams like Williams (especially) and no-one wants a grid smaller than it is now.

[Fed up 0]

Honda have form when it comes to bailing out of F1 at very short notice. I can remember back in the day when they gave Williams very short notice before joining Mclaren, similar short notice to Mclaren before their total withdrawal and similar short notice when they dropped Lotus. This is a team that are used to dropping F1 when it's suits them - they will return in the not too distant future as that is their want.

Reports also suggest Jenson has only recently re-signed for the team for

[Jenson_Rules 0]

I wouldnt be too happy... I expect there to be more that follow Honda's lead, unfortunately!!!

[Fed up 0]

Indeed there will, but that is the nature of F1 in the noughties.

The loss of tobbacco sponsorship was a serious threat to the future of f1, so Bernie and max sought to lure the manufacturers into f1. The problme with manufacturer backed teams however, is that they are more than likely to drop f1 at the hint of trouble - Renault, Honda and Mercedes have demnstratetd this in the past.

Manufacturer backed teams spelt the end of the independents, the bedrock of F1, as they could not compete on a level playing field, so F1 was risking it's future by spawining a series backed by manufacturers and the inherent insecurity that brings to the sport.

The 'spec' series that is currently mooted is Bernie's way of returning F1 to a period when manufacturers had less influence on f1 and it's longevity. The real solution, IMHO, is a more equitable distribuition of the financial pot. If F1 could be more self funding the sport would continue to grow and there would be less liklihood of teams pulling out.

Just my view

[Asmer 0]

This is very worrisome news.

[DOF_power 0]

I couldn't give a crap about independents, the survival of the series, and the other Max and Bernie bulls##t.

There's not gonna be any equitable distribution of the financial pot because there's a 5 billion dollar debt that need to be repaid, and it's where most money have gone, are going and will continue to go.

If you want an easy solution run an entire field Ferrari and McLarens and problem solved.

Racing series aren't important because they survive or not, they're sole importance is, or used to be as racing lost its mojo, the technological innovation and/or refinements/improvements that trickled down to normal production cars, premium-luxury cars and supercars.

Everything else besides improving the breed and cut-throat competition is pure B*.

The driver's championship is b*, ratings is B*, "leveling the playing" is the biggest b*, helping the little guys thru spec bailout is b* and survival of a racertainment marketing series is B*.

Let this f***ing prostituted f***ed up series die.

[DOF_power 0]

In an economic downturn companies tend to cut back on research, even useful research. If Honda aren't selling any cars, I can't imagine extra research is top of their list of priorities. Nevertheless, Max has been promoting road relevance in F1 but we will only develop 'hybrid technology and stuff like that' if we ban innovation in other areas, which you and the manufacturers usually oppose. In fact, given some genuine development to do, as on KERS, which is relevant to hybrid cars, teams like Ferrari squeal in pain and ask for the innovation to be made illegal to save money, rather than invest more to develop the idea.

You must be really dumb and/or historically ignorant to think that Honda would back on useful research.

Honda rose in such harsh conditions due their economical cars to meet the petrol crisis-es of the 70s. Mercedes introduced diesel cars during the Great Depression witch it sold to german taxi companies.

Those who cut down remained behind and where the losers.

If F1 would have allowed eCVT development in 93, re-introduced the turbos in the late 90s and allowed KERS development in the early 2000s things would have been different by now.

Even FIA acknowledged that the current SPEC-DUMB-ECU won't allow any development of fuel efficient engines as it's too stupid and any proper/decent ECU will allow teams to use TC and Co.

Any technologically efficinent and relevent engines will require or at least allow TC and Co.

The obsession with parity and cutting down the costs destroyed F1.

[bmwf1guy 0]

Although I am very disappointed that Honda has pulled out, a team pulling out wasn't a surprise to me. I thought it would be Toyota if any. Neither of these teams are properly organized to weather a storm like we have in the economy today. They are far too big and spend far too much money.

The whole financial situation in F1 today angers me to no end. Now I'm not a Max Mosely fan, but he's the only one if F1 that raised the red flag about skyrocketing spending. He raised this long ago and no one really listened. F1 is an industry relying heavily on the auto sector as well as financial institutions as sponsors so how on earth do they feel untouchable. Out of control spending will eventually catch up to any business and the bubble will burst. History has shown that time and time again.

Bernie Ecclestone charging huge fees for countries to host races causing countries to rethink their involvement (what a surprise) and he's been at war with Max.

Now where do the other teams stand, Torro Rosso, Williams etc., they all rely heavily on sponsors such as AT&T (plunging rapidly), RBS, Credit Suisse, ING all facing incredibly hard times. It is not financially responsible for any of these to be spending the money required to sponsor and F1 team when they have to worry about their company surviving.

I'm glad F1 has finally had a wake up call even if it had to come at Hondas expense.

[Max Mosley 2]

Manufacturer backed teams spelt the end of the independents, the bedrock of F1, as they could not compete on a level playing field, so F1 was risking it's future by spawining a series backed by manufacturers and the inherent insecurity that brings to the sport.

The manufacturers don't care about F1 or us as fans; fortunately we don't need them either. This engine deal shows how we could have spec cars that are as fast as current F1 cars at a fraction of the cost, because teams share the expense. Annual engine costs per team can be slashed under this deal by a factor of about 20 ($200m-->$10m) and we could do the same on the chassis side, with no loss in performance, but the usual suspects keep messing us around.

When Tony Purnell at the FIA said recently that the 2009 aero rules won't achieve the intended reduction in downforce, and hence won't improve overtaking as much as hoped, I naively put it down to a simple miscalculation by the teams. I was soon shown that in fact the manufacturers had deliberately sabotaged measures to improve the show for the fans. Today I read that Geoff Willis thinks the manufacturers will, in addition, deliberately design their cars to recreate the dirty air despite having a smaller rear wing! I bet everyone will be wetting their pants when they see that innovation. Yet again the teams ruin the show for the fans. Without teams, we could design a chassis that helped the car behind to overtake. Think.

So Muzza, looks like you will get your "spec" series after all....

Well, it's moving that way at least. I'm a little sceptical whether the FIA will be able to spot all the differences in performance between the standard engine and the manufacturer units, but at least the differences should be marginal, and the customer teams will be able to help the FIA check for true engine parity. Also I wonder whether 4 teams really will sign up - let's hope so. That probably depends on their confidence that there really will be parity, and perhaps marketing considerations.

As I see it Honda pulled out not because of the costs that they have incurred, let alone not being competitive, but because of the insatiable demands that Bernie has placed on not only the teams but the race tracks for simply more money.

What demands has Bernie placed on the teams for more money? Honda had half a billion dollars every year; surely Bernie wasn't making much of a dent in that.

You must be really dumb and/or historically ignorant to think that Honda would back on useful research.

Whether it's dumb or not, that's what companies tend to do. And I don't think it is dumb.

The whole financial situation in F1 today angers me to no end. Now I'm not a Max Mosely fan, but he's the only one if F1 that raised the red flag about skyrocketing spending. He raised this long ago and no one really listened.

Yup.

[DOF_power 0]

Costs aren't so much the issue, ROI and the useful technology is.

And that went on the crapper with the ban on ground effects, then turbos then the active ride cars.

The engines became more expensive as they become more restricted. Ditto for aerodynamics. And the dozen suspension geometries/tweaks/redesigns needed after the ban of the advanced active suspensions.

Freedom equals (relatively) low costs, more restrictions mean just more money spent to overcome them, a lot of restrictions mean a lot of money spent to overcome them.

If FIA would have been smart that would have introduced a power-torque per weight and/or drag ratio/penalty system, along with a cheapo active aero solution.

Thus the emphasis would have been on alternative propulsion systems, materials and electronics .

[DOF_power 0]

Whether it's dumb or not, that's what companies tend to do. And I don't think it is dumb.

There's no business like the auto business and no sport like motorsport (real motorsport). You don't seem to get that.

[Insider 0]

I decided not to react to Honda's decision to bite the bullet an head for the hills until the dust settled. I was seriously alarmed that it would trigger a wholesale withdrawal of manufacturer teams from the sport. It still might do. Toyota are certainly very rocky and Renault have been on the cusp for some time. If that came to pass, we may then witness a flood of Gulf States-funded privateers, all using one of Max The Axe's bargain-basement Cosi lumps in a farcical facsimile of what used to be and could never be again. Ghastly!

I note the Honda Chairman had the good manners to apologise to JB publicy and so he should. It was ominous that Rubihno's name was not mentioned. I rather think he should have been apologising to them both a long time ago! There is wide speculation that Jens had re-signed at

[Kopite Girl 0]

2 Brits out of F1

Oh well, you can also support the current BRITSH wdc, Mr Hamilton.

Are you ****ing having a giraffe or are you a complete and utter wind-up merchant? The team I loved with all of my heart has pulled out of F1, the team I have argued over and lost friendships over, who I completely believed would provide the goods has gone and yet I persisted and persisted and kept the faith but theyve gone and pulled out so give it a ****ing rest, ok?

I'm just totally devastated, absolutely utterly heartbroken. Thanks for nothing. The memories are not even that great.

It breaks me to say this - but the Williams fans were right.

[Insider 0]

Are you ****ing having a giraffe or are you a complete and utter wind-up merchant? The team I loved with all of my heart has pulled out of F1, the team I have argued over and lost friendships over, who I completely believed would provide the goods has gone and yet I persisted and persisted and kept the faith but theyve gone and pulled out so give it a ****ing rest, ok?

I'm just totally devastated, absolutely utterly heartbroken. Thanks for nothing. The memories are not even that great.

It breaks me to say this - but the Williams fans were right.

Well, we've had the odd spat but I sympathise with you entirely. Jens will be racing in a Brawn-designed car next year - you can bet on it. Honda may be gone but JB is destined to reach the stars - and he will.

[Schumikonen 2]

The big question is what will happen now? I guess Toyota will be very motivated to continue without Honda and what will happen if both of them get out of F1 considering that Honda still need to find some buyer. This is not looking good.

[Fed up 0]

Well, we've had the odd spat but I sympathise with you entirely. Jens will be racing in a Brawn-designed car next year - you can bet on it. Honda may be gone but JB is destined to reach the stars - and he will.

Dreams! The power of dreams is no more.

Jenson is part of the problem and symptomatic of what was wrong with Honda. They were clueless as an F1 team and are really only using the credit crunch as an excuse for their hasty retreat. If truth be told they were hopeless as a full F1 team and what has happens is natural course of events where a corporation, haemoragging cash, has just retreated due to abject failure.

- Firing Dave Richards - fail!

- Paying Jenson

[Medilloni 6]

Dreams! The power of dreams is no more.

Jenson is part of the problem and symptomatic of what was wrong with Honda. They were clueless as an F1 team and are really only using the credit crunch as an excuse for their hasty retreat. If truth be told they were hopeless as a full F1 team and what has happens is natural course of events where a corporation, haemoragging cash, has just retreated due to abject failure.

- Firing Dave Richards - fail!

- Paying Jenson

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

There's no business like the auto business and no sport like motorsport (real motorsport). You don't seem to get that.

No, actually there's no business like show-business

[Jean Todt 4]

Sad people!

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer 4]

Dreams! The power of dreams is no more.

Jenson is part of the problem and symptomatic of what was wrong with Honda. They were clueless as an F1 team and are really only using the credit crunch as an excuse for their hasty retreat. If truth be told they were hopeless as a full F1 team and what has happens is natural course of events where a corporation, haemoragging cash, has just retreated due to abject failure.

- Firing Dave Richards - fail!

- Paying Jenson

[Jem of the Shire 0]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72322

I am so happy :D

Why? Surely we all want as many cars on the grid as possible? I'd be sad even if the red scum team withdrew.

nooooooooo very high poss Jenson wont be driving next year well that sucks i'm going to be highly depressed now all day

Just when they started to think they would be competative aswell

I'll be devastated if JB isnt in F1 next year. But maybe another team will boot out their 2nd driver to make way for Button?

Otherwise he can only hope that teams are made to run 3 cars.

[DOF_power 0]

No, actually there's no business like show-business

That's why Honda's leaving.

[Kay 0]

Firstly it's reported that it's $20 million not